Younoob Tutorials.

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Originally Posted by Fated

Going in totally blind means you're content with wasting other people's time for no valid reason.

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There is a valid reason. It's called figuring it out for ourselves, because that's what you do when you play a video game.

And yes, it's a waste of time, because that's what you do when you play a video game.

If people are so damn worried about wasting time, why the hell are they playing a MMORPG?

While there is no substitute for real world experience, I have for that for me, its much easier to grasp the cause/effects of in game actions and boss moves if I have seen a quick tutorial before hand.

I was in Mor Dhona when that shout war broke out, and I do agree with you to some extent. Kicking and insulting someone because they haven't watched the fight is rude, but going into a fight without any knowledge of it prior (especially in a DF group) seems a bit odd - sort of like going into an exam without studying. Even in a world where youtube tutorials didn't exist, I'd be shouting for people who have cleared the fight or scouring the internet for some scrap of information so I wasn't completely in the dark. Because despite having all that info, you're still going to have to be throwing yourself into that fight 20, 50, 100+ times to actually gain the experience to clear it.

End game as it stands is pretty hostile towards new players. There's zero incentive to bringing someone new to the fight and helping them learn the ropes. If they added some sort of bonus afterwards if there was a new player in the party (similar to how you get an exp bonus for first time clears in the pre-50 dungeons), then it might encourage more people to bring those players along. I actually started a linkshell this weekend that focused on getting people Primal clears and experience in turns 1-5. In the last 3 days, we gained 80 members and made more progress than most of us had seen in the last month.

Question for the OP...

How did you enter the content?


- If you entered via DF, then I agree with you. There is no pre-req for watching Youtube videos prior to clicking on DF.

- If you created or joined a PF group labeled as a learning group, I still agree with you. No pre-req for watching Youtube videos before entering a learning group on PF.

- If you joined a PF group that required kill expereince of experience of the battle, then I think you're in the wrong.

I will watch a video usually after trying the fights myself to kind of see where I might be doing different or what I could do different, but I'm with you on learning as I do. The videos don't really teach me as much as show me maybe a certain way people are standing or some of the phase changes, but still not as good as learning and muscle memory.

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Originally Posted by Eekiki

There is a valid reason. It's called figuring it out for ourselves, because that's what you do when you play a video game.

And yes, it's a waste of time, because that's what you do when you play a video game.

If people are so damn worried about wasting time, why the hell are they playing a MMORPG?

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Warning: This post Rated P for pretentious

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Originally Posted by Issac Newton

If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of Giants.

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But in all seriousness, I am only saying that because I enjoy debates, as I said above, I often don't watch videos myself and enjoy the learning process as much as the next person. It cannot be denied, though, that using the knowledge of those who came before is an invaluable tool for all tasks. The feeling of accomplishment when discovering new techniques is no less so for having started with the techniques of others, at least for me.

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Originally Posted by Eekiki

There is a valid reason. It's called figuring it out for ourselves, because that's what you do when you play a video game.

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He's actually partially right you know. Going into a random group, you do sort of go in with some intent to waste other people's time. Because as the people on your side of the fence always like to say "you can't expect anything in a DF group" like it only applies to the other side.

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Originally Posted by Eekiki

And yes, it's a waste of time, because that's what you do when you play a video game.

If people are so damn worried about wasting time, why the hell are they playing a MMORPG?

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Speak for yourself? Not everyone considers time spent on entertainment as wasting time.

Going into an instance blind and working it all out from scratch is awesome fun - IF all of the folks participating with you are on board with it. I play the game with a static party of five members, and for all the four-man stuff that is what we did.

Sadly, this was a practice we had to set aside once we got to the eight-man stuff. It's flat-out disrespectful to the party members who fill out our eight to go in blind, and so we study up ahead of time.

So, my advice when you want to indulge in this particular pleasure is to use Party Finder to gather a group, rather than dive into Duty Finder and ruin the days of seven other living, breathing human beings who are paying just as much for this game as you are. Make it clear in the Party Finder that experience is not required, nor is watching videos or any other sort of preparatory studying. That party will fill faster than you might think! There are always plenty of inexperienced players looking for practice, and often even a few experienced players willing to show the newbies the ropes.

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Originally Posted by Divine_Intervention

If it happens that I'm incapable of dealing with it, I'll thank the party and give them the option to remove me.

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This might work for DDs, but if you're a healer or a tank and you pull this, the "option to remove you" is actually "the option to either sit on our thumbs for a half our or more and pray that a new tank or healer joins, or keep the nub healer/tank and pray they shape up in less time than it would take to get a new one". :P

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Originally Posted by Eekiki

Players that have tried the fight and wiped a bunch of times will always be better than first timers who've watched a Mr. Happy video.

I do wish SE would get his YouTube account shut down. His guides are awful and they breed bad players.

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I'm sorry, but I disagree with you. I've used his guides for a couple of fights, mainly the EX primals and Twintania. While I agree that nothing beats first-hand experience, it allowed me to beat, for example, Leviathan EX on my 4th DF party alone, with all of them abandoning after 2-3 tries. And when I finally won, I was the only one who hadn't beaten it before yet I didn't drag everyone else down.

It's a tool that helps. You don't have to use it, but then don't complain if the 7 others in your party want you to. As others pointed out, the OP can always use the PF and make a learning party.

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Originally Posted by LineageRazor

So, my advice when you want to indulge in this particular pleasure is to use Party Finder to gather a group, rather than dive into Duty Finder and ruin the days of seven other living, breathing human beings who are paying just as much for this game as you are. Make it clear in the Party Finder that experience is not required, nor is watching videos or any other sort of preparatory studying. That party will fill faster than you might think! There are always plenty of inexperienced players looking for practice, and often even a few experienced players willing to show the newbies the ropes.

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I very much disagree with this approach.

DF is always and will always be a roll of the dice.

You might get 7 people who know the content inside and out and are bored while waiting for their static to log on.

You might get 7 people who have never set foot into the content and have no idea what they are doing.


You shouldn't go into DF expecting an auto-win... that's ridculous.

If you make a PF group and say "experience required" and someone who has never seen the content comes. Yes, that person should be flamed. Queing up for DF to experience the content? Nope, no expereince required.




Also, how is it "ruining someones day" if you que up to content you don't know, but make honest attempts at completing it?

The real problem with this game is that there are so many entitled brats who feel like, "one fail = leave". We have an hour to beat primals, but I've rarely ever been in a group that lasted more than 20 minutes. One or two wipes and someone rage quits, rather than sticking around and trying to help the group achieve victory. That's the real problem, not someone who doesn't want to watch a video showing them exactly what to do.