We need a response from Yoshi about the Atma quest.

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Originally Posted by NintenPyjak64

They werent talking about the Atma process, they were talking about the ENTIRE Zodiak upgrade system, in this case BOTH Atma and Animus. It's like this BY DESIGN so people don't get their animus within a few hours

Not only that but ever think of the reason beyond getting Atmas as to why you're in these areas grinding FATEs? It's to see the world and interact with newer players, which is also what the low level Duty Roulette was designed for. People not only have been complaining for something time consuming and/or rewarding to do, but also newer players complain about how dead zones are. Atma zones don't look that dead anymore. I remember leveling an alt character pre 2.2 and noticing some FATEs I had to solo, or would lose by timing out with NOBODY else in the area. that seems pretty dead to me

But then again people are going to complain about every little thing. Hell I'm no better, I'm complaining about all the people complaining...Go figure

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maybe they are trying to increase participation, but their plan is backfiring as i sometimes dont even get to certain fates before they are over, and I have a mount, imagine a poor low level or someone who hasnt unlocked a mount yet trying to grind this out? they cant do the fates and are almost stonewalled in their leveling progress (and before you say they have quests, yes they do but it has already happened to several of the members of my fc).

Also im sorry but rng kills games, it frustrates the player base, and when players get frustrated they stop playing and ultimately paying for the game. so even if you think this is fine, for one quest, but it isnt as in the long haul it is going to cost them a chunk of the casual player base, and i know some hardcores who are already thinking about quitting and canceling their subs (hell this has crossed my mind several times already...). so again whats better really bad rng (this is) and losing clients(us paying players) or increasing the drop rate, or adding a safety net so that players like myself who have grinded for 6-7 days straight actually have something for our efforts (5/12 atm)?

I will explain to the people trashing people that hate this system why it is terrible with an analogy.

Say that instead of paying wages hourly, or per a certain amount of work done, jobs used a random number generator to decide every certain amount of work accomplished if you earned one unit of currency. Also, that one unit is not worth anything by itself, you have to earn 12 units to earn your paycheck. The paycheck is the same regardless of if you got super lucky and earned all of them in 12, or super unlucky and it took thousands. Then some people that earned all 12 and got their paycheck in reasonable amounts of time say to you "stop complaining, stop whining, the system is fine, you'll get your money". Or "you don't have to do this job, you can do that other available job where 8 people do it and only 1 can get paid for it".

It is nice that they are increasing participation with lower leveled players however, as someone who has recently got their atma weapon I don't imagine myself doing the fates ever again. I'm sticking with one and if the drop rates do go up in a later point in time when the atma quest line becomes outdated...I may still end up ignoring it. Also what's going to happen when most of the community get's all these upgrades, unless they force us to grind them again in a future update fates could just as easily go dead again.

I have an fc member who spent 20 hours to get their second atma, for me it took around the same time in total to get all twelve. Just the other day I had my final two atma drop within the same hour of each other. I logged on did the first fate I saw and immediately got the crab atma(note I also got my very first atma on the first fate which was required for another quest line). Went to the next area did like 5 fates and got Lion as the final piece.

I get that the entire new quest line to get the highest upgrade is supposed to 'stall' us until next patch. However members of my fc who have started on their books had to get help from fc members in order to complete fates because not many people have gotten past the atma grinding section. The issue became clear when we had to go to coerthas to do a fate there which not many people were around to do because...guess what? They were all atma grinding still and the fate I had to help out with was clearly meant to be done by a decently sized party or group of people as the 4 bosses were tanky as hell and used stone skin as if it was designed to deliberately stall you out so you run out of time and fail the fate.

There is absolutely no sense of progression with atma grinding as it is nothing more than a slot machine that determines who gets their atma and who doesn't. They want to make it a grind? That is fine, they can incorporate fates into the quest line but there has to be some sense of reward or progression with each fate completed. They could've just made a quota of fates to complete for each atma, if they really needed to stretch it out they could have put a limit as to how many you could collect in a time frame. Sure people would still be upset over it but at least they know what to expect, and actually feel like they are 'working' towards their atma weapon.

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Originally Posted by Trespar

Sorry if we want to have fun with our "long term goals". I wasn't aware that's a bad thing.

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Sorry that "Long term goals" were handed out like peanuts in the form of Relics~

We are also sorry that many people feel like whining because they can't handle the fact that all of their "Hard work" might take more than an hour to do -_-

Btw, with the introduction of the Echo bonus to primals and the Coil, does that mean the difficulty of the content was a bad idea in the first place?
Making something easier does not infer that the previous difficulty was wrong~

now, suck it up and shut up~

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Originally Posted by Rein-Yagami

Sorry that "Long term goals" were handed out like peanuts in the form of Relics~

We are also sorry that many people feel like whining because they can't handle the fact that all of their "Hard work" might take more than an hour to do -_-

now, suck it up and shut up~

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Cept it's not "hard work" but a mindless boring grind with no real challenge where some people can get 12 atmas in 12 hours while other people spend 40 hours just to get a single atma.
They could have made it 50 or even 100 fates in each zone and people would be much happier because then you could see progress instead of praying to get a single drop.
And I'm starting to get tired of the people telling others to shut up about it, because most of the time it's the people that got 12 atmas within 2 days or so.

Btw, does anyone know what the Japanese players are saying about this quest? Would love to hear their thoughts on this matter.

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Originally Posted by Calyanare

If you didn't find a reason to FATE grind before now, obviously it wasn't important enough to you to spend time on. I wonder why that is? Maybe because FATEs are the most boring, lazy content design ever? I love all of these "Quit whining, it's fine because I got mine already with minimal effort" posts. I really do.

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Maybe cause there was no REASON to fate grind? in the time it'd take me to fate grind about 60k gil, I could have ran DD atleast 10 times and got 600k gil from selling the drops~
You can't have everything, no matter what your mommy told you~

Also, Thank you for proving that you can't actually read~ "Four days of Fate Grinding (6+hours a day)" <-- Not exactly minimal effort~

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Originally Posted by Kisshu

They could have made it 50 or even 100 fates in each zone and people would be much happier because then you could see progress instead of praying to get a single drop.
And I'm starting to get tired of the people telling others to shut up about it, because most of the time it's the people that got 12 atmas within 2 days or so.

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Again, 4 days~ L2READ!

100 fates in each zone = 1200 fates~ Pssssst, how many people are whining about the fate grind anyway? They'd start whining with "waaaah, can't we have it 25 fates per zone?" and "waaaaaaah, why can't we just do dungeons and get a guaranteed drop"

Atma and Animas ARE NOT FOR EVERYONE! atleast not until the next levels come out~ So, seriously~ Suck it up and move on~

if you can't handle the grind, then go do Levi-Ex and get a better weapon that way~ better yet, wait a few days and go do DF Coil~ get your allagan gear~ just stop expecting things to be easy!

Sigh, they haven't even updated the typo in the quest log for Atma of the Maiden -_-.

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Originally Posted by Rein-Yagami

Again, 4 days~ L2READ!

100 fates in each zone = 1200 fates~ Pssssst, how many people are whining about the fate grind anyway? They'd start whining with "waaaah, can't we have it 25 fates per zone?" and "waaaaaaah, why can't we just do dungeons and get a guaranteed drop"

Atma and Animas ARE NOT FOR EVERYONE! atleast not until the next levels come out~ So, seriously~ Suck it up and move on~

if you can't handle the grind, then go do Levi-Ex and get a better weapon that way~ better yet, wait a few days and go do DF Coil~ get your allagan gear~ just stop expecting things to be easy!

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You're missing the point. People have no issue "working" toward the goal in a game, it's the lack of foreseeable progression people have an issue with. You could make the goals hard to reach and people would have far less of an issue. As an example, people raid every week because the drop % is at least fixed. But if you consider a Korean MMO grindfest to be hard or interesting then there's something seriously wrong here. There's a reason those games don't do well and it is not because they're super fun. But why people are okay with "working" in a game to lack any form of interesting content or challenge to be acceptable is beyond me.

Also, people want to be ready for the next step in the Relic progression so stop telling people there are alternatives. Unless Levi Ex also fulfills the next step to the Relic Quest this argument isn't valid nor is it a good defense of content. "This content sucks, I know, just don't do it" is essentially what you're saying. I can't think of ever, ever using that line of defense in other MMOs so why would it be permissible to say "Yeah sure, this sucks but at least I can completely kick the can down the road until the next patch and do it then!"... Which makes no sense.

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Originally Posted by Rein-Yagami

Atma and Animas ARE NOT FOR EVERYONE! atleast not until the next levels come out~ So, seriously~ Suck it up and move on~

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This argument makes no sense in defense of content that is simply time consuming without anything interesting nor challenging going on in it. This is also a game, the content should be accessible to everyone. Yoshi has even stated as much.






Bottom line is this:



-The content is not interesting nor challenging. It's simply filler to keep players occupied for a set period of time, filler which could have been executed in a better way.

-People want to have a fair chance to get their Atmas compared to everyone else. There shouldn't be lottery winners who get theirs within 4 hours and those who go days without getting anything. The extremes are worlds apart and as a result there are people falling through the cracks. The people who are "working hardest" are those getting screwed the most.

-This quest line provides no foreseeable goal or "light at the end of the tunnel". People are going days without having gained any Atma and without being able to see any light it weighs heavily on them to continue to grind this content.

-No one enjoys being told to "Go do something else" when they're very well aware of the fact they'll have to complete this quest anyway come the next patch for the continued progression of relic.

-The fixes and compromises to this issue are overwhelmingly easy and abundant. People have offered a variety of ideas that do not detract from the perceived "difficulty" yet triage the cracks of the RNG system people have been falling between. There's a reason in D3 they increased your chance to get a legendary drop rate by a certain % after you've played for a certain amount of time. It's because they never intended for you to go 2-3 days without gaining a strong item of some sort. Question is here, what does SE intend, did they actually intend for people to go days on end worth of game play to not get any Atma?

-No one wants to make it "easy". They just want it to be fair and accessible. This shouldn't be a controversial point but for some reason it has become one. This content requires no skill aside from luck. There's no reason to keep luck as the major factor here. Even after I complete my weapon (9/12) I will still advocate for this position because I want people to continue to play this game, invest in it, and enjoy it so SE thrives and has revenue to deliver more wonderful content.

Couldn't have said it better than Morphiana. You just put everything I think about ATMAs in a nutshell.

wasting your time =/= effort