Tank changes I'd like to see happen.

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Originally Posted by BazFamrit

You suggested giving pld greater aoe enmity. War would not be needed as much to hold groups of adds. You also suggested war get greater DMG mitigation. Pld wouldn't be needed as much for periods of sustained high DMG. Shield bash may break your combo but its also always available for use. War has the exact opposite in that stun is not always available but doesn't break the combo. Again, each job has its own perks and those perks are useful in certain situations, sometimes during the same instance. Buffing ones ability to do what the other does best lessens the need to have one of each.

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Last i played there were warriors, post dec patch, who had hate levels that were so insanely high that they could switch off of tanking rotations and onto doing dps rotations while MTing so it's hard for me to take that stance knowing paladin's perks are minimal and you can get by with the job only having: stun, 1 combo, rampart, and shield oath imho. Paladin has weak AOE threat and that damage is pretty paltry. There are many runs where people would normally take 1 tank so a correction to this would be nice plus wars have been crying for more mitigation and they'll continue to address this until they future proof it.

All in all I'd like to see paladin become more than a 1 trick pony. If we talked pvp then it's hard to even call 'em a tank.

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Originally Posted by Lemon8or

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I didn't mean to make Shield Bash a proc only. Sorry if it read that way. Standard Shield Bash would still work the same way it always has. But it would have the added effect that after you block, it becomes an instant cast for 10 seconds (once used or if the 10 seconds expires, it goes back to normal) and causes 6 seconds of pacification. To stop it from having 100% up time, you may have to give it a 5-10 second period were the effect can't happen again once it's been used.

So, say you're fighting Siren and spirits is on CD. If the instant Shield Bash proc isn't up, you still have to stand there and wait for Lunatic Song so you can bash it. But, if it does proc, then you get to keep doing your combos/flashing adds, etc while waiting. Adds spawn a lot of times right before Lunatic is cast. If I flash the adds or shield lob one right as it casts, I have to then hammer Shield Bash and just pray that it interrupts.

As far as SE/HG goes, if you add in the "Maximum 25% of max health" stipulation for SE, then at most, you're going to get back 2.5K (10K HP withToB) for SE plus 200% of the damage you dealt for HG. So, if you deal 1.5K damage, you're getting back 5.5K once both effects ends. At a glance, sure, you could call that OP, but then you look at Holy Ground, a move that you can use to take a billion damage and laugh for 10 seconds, the 5.5K HP you got back doesn't seem like so much anymore. ;)

If there's any changes that I would like to see, it would be with the way stats benefit the class. It would be nice to see offensive stats have some kind of defensive benefit to give us more choices for gear. Maybe make it like a level 50 trait.

For example...
Paladin: Your critical strikes grant you a shield that absorbs physical damage equal to 30% of the damage dealt by your attack. Additional critical strikes increases the strength of the shield, up to a maximum of 15% of your max HP. Lasts up to 10 seconds.
Warrior: Your critical strikes increases your chance to parry and the amount of damage prevented by parrying. Lasts 10 seconds.

Would also be nice if Paladins got an attack that combos off of Riot Blade or Savage Blade that doesn't cause increased threat so I'm not always in danger of grabbing aggro even when using Sword Oath.

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Originally Posted by Versiroth

So, instead of balancing the jobs you'd rather they tailor each so that they're situational? Personally, that doesn't affect me as I have both, but if you only have one, it can't feel good to be told that you can't tank something as a Paladin because a Warrior is better in said situation or vice versa. I would rather SE balance them out and then keep adding incentives to bring both like the LB change and stuff like the damage debuff/STR debuff than to make each one have a niche.

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Balance is great but making them more similar is not balance. Like I said, each has their place and the both together is much better than 2 of the same. Each can tank everything well just have different drawbacks and benefits.

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Originally Posted by Fyreus

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This is not true at all. The DMG combo for war is their hate combo. They have the option of going all out damage with butchers block and storms eye combo. Or defensive with butchers path combo. Keeping both debuffs up causes them to fall off before they refresh. Choosing which way to go depends on the content and your gear.

Pld can also do some decent damage. One of the biggest differences is pld go full vit and many war go full str or star biased with their attributes. When I swapped from full str to full vit(as war) I noticed a significant DPS loss and its a bit more difficult to keep hate than before. For that reason most pld will never come close to war DPS or enmity generation but otherwise they are similar in terms of DPS ability when focused on actually doing DMG.

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Originally Posted by Lemon8or

Current Storm's Eye: I like it as is. It gives warrior a rotation to do while OTing SE->SP->BB. Mixing it in with BB would mean we would need to use alternate SP and BBx2 even when we OT and would give aggro problem.

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as an aside, why would you do that? SE->SP->SE->SP->etc does more damage than including the BB combo. 100% up time on SE outweighs the extra potency of the BB combo.

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Originally Posted by Versiroth

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Paladin:

1 - I'm not entirely against it, but I think it's unnecessary. Warrior's AoE threat generation comes at a much higher cost than Paladin's (they do not have the luxury of Flash spam).

2 - While Paladin could definitely use an offtank combo, this isn't the answer. Having an interrupt tied to a combo finisher is far too unwieldy (especially with every botched interrupt increasing resistance).

3 - So, you basically want Shield Swipe off-GCD, except it overrides your ability to use Shield Bash? What happens when you proc the pacify (blocks are pretty frequent) and you need the stun?

Warrior:

1 - No. What you call "annoying" is a balancing aspect of the Storm's Eye combo. Personally, I enjoy having to choose which debuffs I want to maintain, or risk my threat generation. Besides, it's already quite doable to rotate Storm's Path > Storm's Eye in most fights at a certain point. Funnily enough, the other tank is most often the one getting in the way of this.

2 - Not a terrible idea (aside from replacing Storm's Eye), but it lasts far too long. You're very likely to get overhealed by the time the effect actually occurs. Another snap heal would be far more useful.

3 - Timing Inner Beast is tricky because it's on-GCD, not because of the duration (there's a whole thread discussing this). Increasing the duration by 2 seconds (a 33% increase) is a relatively massive increase. The potency of the effect might be justifiably nerfed in order to maintain balance, and I definitely don't want that.

4 - Holmgang's kinda trash--a duration increase isn't a bad place to start.

5 - Foresight would still suck, but at least this should be done.

Ive got both, 84 Pali 76 war but on different servers. I'm just gonna level my Pali on my sub and run war for dungeons and Pali for bosses. Problem solved

Make Bulwark scale effectiveness based on whether you carry an itty bitty shield or a BAS/BFS. :)

I've said it before, but Enhanced Foresight (the trait) absolutely needs this change:

Shortens Foresight recast time to 90 seconds. Adds increased magic defense to Foresight effect.

This is similar to the CNJ "Proshell" trait. If you're going to give the magic defense to the basic Foresight, Warrior should at least get the basic Rampart in return, as that would make Foresight the equivalent of Rampart. Furthermore, neither tank should be sharing Savage Blade and Skull Sunder with each other, as they are WORTHLESS skills outside of their respective class; give Warrior basic Rampart and give Paladin basic Thrill of Battle.