They can't. All they can think is "I don't like Peregrine" so they have to come up with SOMETHING to disagree with out of affected principle. In reality, there is no justification for having to wear attachment gear. It is simply...inferior in every way.Quote:
Originally Posted by Naylia
If you would rather disagree with me than make a good game, get out of here. That's the reason I'm making it clear I don't like some people. They have agendas, not solutions. They have petty rivalries (that they can't win). Not objective opinions.
I could make some people argue any position I want them to at this point, simply by defending the opposite. At that point, they don't even own their opinions. I do.
This is a no-brainer.
You can't give crafters something to do with their garbage gear by encouraging battlers to wear that garbage.
I will say that AGAIN because it is so OBVIOUS.
You can't give crafters something to do with their garbage gear by encouraging battlers to wear that garbage.
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06-16-2011, 12:51 AMPeregrine
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06-16-2011, 03:03 AMAirleaMy point was:Quote:
Originally Posted by Peregrine
There is no can or can't. They can do it however they want.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peregrine
Perhaps they could have a system in which you create an affinity with the gear by earning specific achievements while wearing it. They've used NM kills previously as part of quests to upgrade gear.
They could also incorporate materia sidequests. Sets of armor could share the same quests to encourage party play. For the higher rank gear/materia or for rarer materia and/or chances at rare HQs the quests could end with a rather difficult instanced fight. These fights could also be tier'd in difficulty to allow people to complete it solo for the basic materia with perhaps a bonus or chance at the HQ/rare version based on time completed. The higher tier'd fights could have either an exceptionally high chance or 100% chance at the HQ/rare version, but would require 8 skilled players to complete, again to promote party play (something that's still rather lacking).
There are infinite possibilities. Stating that "if you have to wear gear to turn it into materia, _____ will happen," is completely closing your mind off to any alternatives. Think a bit more outside the box. Instead of stating that it simply can not work, provide an alternative system in which you are required to wear the gear, yet it wouldn't be based on earning points for kills or WS uses, thus eliminating the gimping down of the players that you're concerned with.
tl;dr I agree with you. SE can do it however they want to. There's nothing that says we have to wear gear to turn it into materia, yet there's also nothing saying that a system like this couldn't work if done properly. Keep an open mind. -
06-16-2011, 04:31 AMPeregrine
You spin your wheels too much. They can do everything you're trying to do by simply not requiring gear to be worn. No need to re-create the wheel. Just stop trying to roll a brick.
Easy. Simple. Clean. Superior.
There is no counter-argument. Gear should not need to be equipped to be turned to materia.
If you agree, then stop wasting everyone's time coming up with a big convoluted alternative solution.
That's the solution. You don' thave to equip it. That's it. It's done. It's over. Moving on.
Just because they can do anything they want, doesn't mean they should waste any more time doing it than is necessary. You're trying to hard. This is a slam-dunk. -
06-16-2011, 05:05 AMAirleaI provide an alternative and practical idea that differs from anything else suggested and yet you say I'm trying to re-invent the wheel? You didn't even provide an idea for a system. You only stated that you wanted to be able to create an affinity with gear without having to wear it. How? Do you simply carry it around with you, do you trade it to an NPC until you're done, can you do multiple items at once, how does this prevent players from hoarding gear both NQ and HQ for additional materia attempts, will this cause an issue in the economy for players trying to find inexpensive gear to use or HQ items they desire for use rather than have it made into materia? What is your "system?"Quote:
Originally Posted by Peregrine
It doesn't have to be. No one is saying that you have to. I provided you a counter argument that again, is very practical and helps address other issues as well. Would it be a terrible thing to promote party play and provide additional content? Isn't that what people want as well? Or would they be better served clogging up inventory with gear they're creating an affinity with and no new content aside from the materia itself?Quote:
There is no counter-argument. Gear should not need to be equipped to be turned to materia.
I don't agree that not having to wear it is the only solution, or even a solution at all. I even provided you with one. The idea I provided is exceptionally simple and mirrors content already provided in other games. It's a far cry from "big," and "convoluted." You haven't provided a single thing outside of saying that we don't have to wear gear to create materia. That's not a solution. That's stating the obvious. You don't have to equip it. So again, YOU provide a system for it.Quote:
If you agree, then stop wasting everyone's time coming up with a big convoluted alternative solution.
That's the solution. You don' thave to equip it. That's it. It's done. It's over. Moving on.
So anything they do is just a waste of time? They're already making up for lost time, so it's pretty ridiculous to infer that they would be using more time than necessary on any of their projects. Talk about trying too hard. *dunks*Quote:
Just because they can do anything they want, doesn't mean they should waste any more time doing it than is necessary. You're trying to hard. This is a slam-dunk.
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06-16-2011, 07:35 PMtwinkles
I actually agree with the OP on a few concerns. After reading the bits and pieces regarding the details laid out i thought very similar things, but there may be reasons to equip materia that will be converted.
Example- You go out and farm materia points and your armor slot pops ready, you then select weapon in inventory to convert.
Example- I go out and Materia grind as a THM wep slot pops ready to convert(should i be able to pick a different item say crab bow?) Personally i don't think you should be able to do that.
Example- You go out as a rank 10 whatever battle class you have, your wep pops ready to convert and you select some r50 wep to convert from your inventory. Again i don't think that should be allowed either.
Now keep in mind they can build in all sorts of conditions to prevent these actions from occurring, some they have already hinted at (rank restrictions etc.). I guess what I'm getting at is perhaps they took the simpler direction and just made it the equipped item.
I do think the system promotes wearing your least useful gear though. Why would i choose my +2 axe to convert when i could use a NQ, unless they make hq weps convert 100% into HQ materia. That's assuming that materia even works like that.
If i had to think of an alternate system, I would pitch you create a intermediate token ( i know more inventory clutter) based on the item that just popped ready, that can be used to convert any item of the same type within the same rank. Think "r40-50 thm wep token" that only lasts for 24hrs to curb hording. -
06-16-2011, 07:44 PMtwinkles
A mechanic to use that would promote using your best gear type would be that the best gear type converts into the best materia.
Concern- high rank players using lower rank items. Solution- lower rank items give inferior materia. I actually think this is the way they are going with it.
Example r48 archer using a r30 bow instead of his crab gets a +2 AP materia instead of a +5/6 whatever for using the "more appropriate" weapon.
Yes i know the battle class is not the one making the final materia, but say if the initial catalyst (whatever it is called) would be flawed/superior in this matter. -
06-16-2011, 11:17 PMPeregrineCan not function, and destroys the reason the materia system is in place.Quote:
Originally Posted by twinkles
Materia started to give crafters an economic use for their lower-quality items compared to their HQ targets. That is, something to do with their 15 NQ crab bows while trying to make their +2 or +3.
IF the system rewards using +2 or +3 crab bows and gives better results, it doesn't functionally do anything to all those NQ crab bows. It gives crafters even more incentive to spam crab bows and makes the problem of too many crab bows that no one wants WORSE. No one will buy a NQ weapon if HQs give better materia, just as no one buys NQ weapons if HQs give better stats. That's pretty much proven.
Thus, developers cannot code HQ weapons and gear to make superior materia to its NQ counterpart, because that would make the glut of NQ garbage with no buyers worse.
It is unfair to restrict the type of gear you're attaching to to the job you're playing. Jade crooks are cheap pieces of trash. A conjurer will have a very easy time making R50 materia compared to any other job, whose weapons are not so easy to make at that level, and will thus cost more. Why should a lancer have to pay more than anyone else to make the same materia? They shouldn't. Lancers already have it tough enough.
They are already restricting the rank of materia you can put in low rank gear. I'm sure they're limiting the quality of materia that you get based on the rank of the item.
However, they're not going to design a system where someone gets incentive to destroy a +2 weapon unless a +2 is just as worthless as a NQ. That would turn the materia solution into an exacerbation of the very problem materia is meant to help. -
06-16-2011, 11:21 PMPeregrineListen to yourself. If, compared to not having to wear gear to attach to it, your system includesQuote:
Originally Posted by Airlea
Materia sidequests
Boss fights
Instances
Tiered difficulty fights
Infinite possibilities...
You already lost. Again, you're wasting everyone's time.
Your idea is an impractical mishmash of wasted development to achieve simple outcomes. Stop wasting the devs' time with a ten-point way to do what one tiny feature would accomplish simply because you don't like the person who proposed it. Uhduh. You're letting your affect lead you around, and it's making you propose terribly inefficient and bloated ideas.
Here's my "system" lol...
You can attach to one weapon, one tool, one accessory, and three gear at a time. They do need to be in your inventory, so you don't have to keep going back to NPC to change what you want to attach to.
Done. That's all there is. There is no more.
Keep your system. Learn to work smarter, not harder.
KISS
You don't even understand that materia is just a fringe. It's just something to give worth to undesired crafting product. That's it. It's not revolution. It's just a tiny aside. They don't have TIME to turn every molehill into a mountan here.
So stop trying to make one. -
06-18-2011, 02:57 AMAirleaYou're wrong. I'm right. Simple as that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peregrine
You still haven't proposed your own solution. Simply saying "you carry it around with you," isn't a system. What then? We kill 300 mobs while carrying it in our inventory? Certainly you do realize there are inventory issues already. Do we need to use a certain WS a certain number of times? Should it be tied to how many BRs we use instead? A mix of both? Do we lose our points if we change our mind and switch what we're creating an affinity with? What about people with alts? Will they be able to load up what they want on an alt and go powerlevel for materia the way they do for SP now? What would you incorporate to prevent this? You are, after all, one of the more vocal players against cheating. Certainly you wouldn't implement a system that would cater to this type of behavior.
You want to call people out all the time. If you can't handle their responses, you need to stop this nonsense. YOU provide a practical system. No shying away from it. I could say "you have to wear it. Done. That's all there is. There is no more." That's still not a system. That's saying "I'm pulling this all out of my donkey."
Also, explain to me why the developers can't implement my system. You stated that you could, but there is absolutely no grounds for this. They could. That doesn't mean that they will, but it's absolutely ridiculous to declare they are incapable. It's a bit more complex than some ideas, and much simpler than others, but that doesn't mean that they can't.
I'm winning. -
06-18-2011, 03:18 AMsyntaxlies
How about all gear creates materia. New gear will supply less and worn gear more. They would have to go by gear damage or implement a new system that counts total lifetime damage oe something along these lines. This way crafters have something to do with all the crap they lvl on instead of selling to an npc and people who enjoy DOW will have something to do with their well worn gear. Go ahead, pick it apart now, lol.