Increase rewards for losing team

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Originally Posted by Devoire

Personally I think the reward system is generous. I solo que several times per day, generally I win 1 in 4 with a complete pug. In the evenings I que with my FC members and win 9/10 matches. All in all I manage to maintain a positive win/lose ration, but you would not see me complain if the next update removed all rewards from losing. I know this will not happen, since the losing team still needs their carrot on a stick, but I wouldn't mind seeing it happen.

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Obviously, if you can que up with a pre-made and win 90% of your games, you don't care right now, but if SE doesn't make the game rewarding for the general population everyone suffers: longer ques, slower progression, decreased competition, and the 'snowball' effect that compounds all problems.

Simply put, removing rewards for losing is the worst thing you could do for PvP.

There are so many blind people in this thread.

Accumulation of gear is a necessity to sustain PvP. In order to pvp well you need morale, and this only comes from PvP gear. The problem is the rate of accumulation for those who lose more matches than they win, thus furthering their loss streaks/ratio. Right now, you win 10x more marks for winning than losing. So if your first 10 games you get lucky and win 9/10 you are much further than someone who had bad luck at getting your first piece of gear, which begins the snowball.

As it is now, Gear > Skill. If you have the gear, you can be worse in skill than your opponent and still win due to the increased morale/stats you have over your opponent. This places the emphasis on gear accumulation, and gives those who win more up front the advantage over those who come in later, or lose at first until they figure out the PvP system, and makes no attempt to even out that advantage later on.

If you are lacking in Morale Gear simply que for Non-50 PvP, Morale only works in the 50 bracket.

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There are so many blind people in this thread.

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As someone that is gearing through solo queues, I see clearly the issue.

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Accumulation of gear is a necessity to sustain PvP. In order to pvp well you need morale, and this only comes from PvP gear.

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Agree and this is why I started with a full crafted set and over 150 morale. This is an option for all players prior to entering their first match.

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The problem is the rate of accumulation for those who lose more matches than they win, thus furthering their loss streaks/ratio. Right now, you win 10x more marks for winning than losing. So if your first 10 games you get lucky and win 9/10 you are much further than someone who had bad luck at getting your first piece of gear, which begins the snowball.

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All true but to correct a problem, one needs to look at the actual problem. In this case, you need to determine what is impacting the accumulation of marks.

The biggest impact is that those that solo queue are very often coming up against premade teams many of which are currently very well geared. Another less significant impact is low skill and/bots.

Charity for all in greater rewarding losing, players with little or no pvp skill, and bots is not the answer as it will not correct the problem.

As someone with over 200 solo queues and a very slow gear accumulation rate, I think increasing the rewards for losses is a terrible idea. I think it send the wrong message and totally ignores the REAL issues impacting accumulation. It also rewards everyone for losing including bots and people that lack pvp skill.

If you want to take the first step in truly correcting the issue of slow accumulation, have premades only paired against premades .

I feel like if a 4v4 loss would net double what it currently does there would be more activity in the 4v4 Q's. Right now if you Q 4v4 and your team is good, you usually win ever match against 1 or 2 teams until they decide they want to stop Qing up and then the fun is over and you sit in Q for 40+mins with no Q pop.

If they double the loss rewards only in 4v4 it would encourage people to Q with others from their server and make 4v4 q's pop, which would alleviate the 3Q and 4Qs in the solo games, cause its more efficient to Q with 4 people in 4's. I know alot of people are Qing 4 into solo Q cause they wanna play with their friends and 4q never pops i think this would help.

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Originally Posted by realistic1

You would not be posting in this thread if you won 90% of your matches.

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I certainly would. Objectivity is my strong suit. And I think you mean, “would not have made the comment I made”. Simply posting in a thread does not stipulate intention or agenda.

Right now the only real incentive to que matches in the duty finder is passion for pvp. Can you win in pug groups? Sure, but let’s be realistic. The incentives need to cater to the populous of the demographic, not a target group. The incentives available cater to premades. No one should be forced into premade groups to obtain rewards in a timely fashion. Should being in a premade have a distinct advantage? Yes, but as of now that advantage is lopsided.

I agree with some of your theory crafting as to why and/or how to fix the problem with premade groups and their advantages, but some consideration should be given to people who are simply going to pug for awhile and see what happens. 10 marks is simply not enough. Should it be 100? No.

I completely disagree with your opinions on boters.

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Originally Posted by Xayide

There are so many blind people in this thread.

Accumulation of gear is a necessity to sustain PvP. In order to pvp well you need morale, and this only comes from PvP gear. The problem is the rate of accumulation for those who lose more matches than they win, thus furthering their loss streaks/ratio. Right now, you win 10x more marks for winning than losing. So if your first 10 games you get lucky and win 9/10 you are much further than someone who had bad luck at getting your first piece of gear, which begins the snowball.

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A healthy PVP population is also necessary to sustain PVP. When all the people who come to PVP late or had bad luck or whatever get wasted by people with PVP gear/abilities get disheartened by how slowly they're progressing, they stop playing.

Need more rewards for losers.

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Originally Posted by Imapooonu

It certainly is.

Increase rewards or decrease the cost of pvp materia please.

Thanks in advance.

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Actually, they are reducing the cost of the materia.

And No, it certainly is not. Make losing more rewarding and more people will bot. I'd rather have less cheating than more even if I can't have zero. Botters hurt other players by making those other players lose too (most of the time).

The current rewards were set with the understanding that the average person will win 50% of the time. That would be mostly accurate if more knowledgable people weren't forming premades while people who don't know about this do not. SE plans to do something to address that issue though.

I would be fine with the Devs doubling the rewards of the losers, so long as the winners are doubled as well. This allows the losers to get their gear faster than the current rate, and does not diminish the winners reward either.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

Actually, they are reducing the cost of the materia.

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I know. The amount rewards need to be increased is partially contingent on this factor. So until we actually know what that adjustment will be, it stands to reason the exact solution will remain unknown at this time. So, if the price for pvp materia is lowered 1%, then another adjustment would be needed for example.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

And No, it certainly is not.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

"People will do it regardless" isn't a reason not to consider the factor.

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Then I don’t understand this. It sounds to me like, “It is NOT a reason to NOT consider a certain factor”. I’m saying that “people will do it regardless” IS a reason to NOT consider it in the proposed solution. I just took what you said in a literal sense and feel boting should be a problem dealt with in a way that makes boting the core problem that inspires said solution.

And people who bot do it in their sleep and will continue until they buy the gear they want. So in theory, the quicker they get their gear, the SOONER they will stop boting. Also, a group with an excellent bot strategy will also win against most pug groups. So it makes sense to say that raising the rewards for the losing team will not affect the boting problem in almost any way.