Light/full Party buff

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Originally Posted by Rentahamster

Because it artificially boosts your stats based on an arbitrary number, and it rewards people for adding in afks, non-battle classes, and underranked people just to get the boost.


The only "party bonus" you should be getting is the "bonus" for actually putting together a good party that works together and reinforces each others' strengths. Each new member adds his own contribution because of his own personal worth, not because "oh we just need one more person, I don't care who, for the party bonus".

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and that's because we need some limits.
The party buff is ok, but what we really need now is this :
1)a level range, so people don't invite rank 1 people just to add a number
2)a zone limit: right now people receive buff even if are in different zones, so a range limit should be in place.
regardless, i don't think people would invite people just to reach buffs.not with a proper encounter with a proper difficulty.

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Originally Posted by Rentahamster

Yes, I know what you were trying to do, and because your own points do not show how the light/full party buff is actually worthwhile, and because they do not address my points about how the light/full party buffs are meaningless, that shows how your points are irrelevant.

Everything you said here:



does not provide any kind of justification as to how an arbitrary stat buff is supposed to "make party play more challenging and rewarding".

Gameplay is exactly the same with or without it. The only difference is that with a light/full party buff, you are being rewarded just on the "merit" of having 4 or 8 people, nothing more.

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Except that it does, because I and SE have said that these party buffs are to properly separate the balance between dungeons and overworld play...why don't you just wait and see how it plays out? once again its not to prep you for behests and leves or the overworld NMs because clearly the balance is botched and obviosly they will be working on that...honestly now, with all due respect to your opinions, I'm really really bored by this topic now and you're arguing with me for the hell of it now with no good reason. Believe what you want, all I was saying is wait for the battle changes which are coming soon anyway...or you know, you guys can cry like little babies some more.

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Originally Posted by yukikaze_yanagi

and that's because we need some limits.
The party buff is ok, but what we really need now is this :
1)a level range, so people don't invite rank 1 people just to add a number
2)a zone limit: right now people receive buff even if are in different zones, so a range limit should be in place.

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Wouldn't just getting rid of the buffs be easier instead of trying to make a bunch of rules?

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Originally Posted by yukikaze_yanagi

i don't think people would invite people just to reach buffs.

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They do.

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Originally Posted by yukikaze_yanagi

not with a proper encounter with a proper difficulty.

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In a situation where you are inviting someone for the right reason (I need more people to handle difficult content), why even bother to have the party buff at all, then? What does it add or enhance? Would the content be less fulfilling or balanced without it? No. it's all the same, and the buff is meaningless.

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Originally Posted by Mack

Except that it does, because I and SE have said that these party buffs are to properly separate the balance between dungeons and overworld play

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Buffs work regardless of whether you're in a dungeon or in the overworld. Think about it - how is a buff supposed to "balance" anything? Unless the dungeon content is too hard for just a 4-man party without the buff. But if that's the case, the proper course to balance the content would be to make it 5% easier. Adding extraneous functions like a 5% buff just for the sake of having a 4-player party is unnecessary and arbitrary. There is no reason to add more and more constructs onto the game, when the same result could just have easily be accomplished though other means already in the system.

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Originally Posted by Mack

with all due respect to your opinions, I'm really really bored by this topic now and you're arguing with me for the hell of it now with no good reason.

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I responded to you because you responded to me. That's how a forum discussion works. I do have a good reason for the point that I made because I'm pointing out design flaws in the reasoning for the party buff and showing how it is meaningless, regardless of the type of content.

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Originally Posted by Mack

or you know, you guys can cry like little babies some more.

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Having a debate about game mechanics is hardly "crying like little babies". Try not to impugn the motives of other forum users.

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Originally Posted by Rentahamster

Wouldn't just getting rid of the buffs be easier instead of trying to make a bunch of rules?


They do.


In a situation where you are inviting someone for the right reason (I need more people to handle difficult content), why even bother to have the party buff at all, then? What does it add or enhance? Would the content be less fulfilling or balanced without it? No. it's all the same, and the buff is meaningless.

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They do NOW, but it's even pointless with this easy content.
Btw no, if new content it's balanced with buffs in mind, it's really stupid hammer it.
I do an example with WoW cataclysm: they released buff for regular istances, then they balanced istances with that buff in mind: that didn't made istances any more easy, it's just a tool to booster your pg for a while.

I thought the whole point of it was to compensate for lacking a 'buff' class in small man groups (this was something Yoshi said before the buff came in)

It doesn't really appear to achieve this. He said something like, he envisioned small groups being a tank/healer/dps/dps setup, and big groups being like tank/tank/healer/healer/dps/dps/dps/buff (this is all from vague memory).

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Originally Posted by yukikaze_yanagi

They do NOW, but it's even pointless with this easy content.

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It would still be pointless even with the new content.

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Originally Posted by yukikaze_yanagi

Btw no, if new content it's balanced with buffs in mind, it's really stupid hammer it.

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Yep, which shows that they could just as easily balance the content without the buffs in mind. The existence of party buffs based on a variable like party member count doesn't add anything positive.

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Originally Posted by Rentahamster

It would still be pointless even with the new content.


Yep, which shows that they could just as easily balance the content without the buffs in mind. The existence of party buffs based on a variable like party member count doesn't add anything positive.

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I suggest you to bring a proper argumentation for your statements: you're just repeating the same things over and over, and they aren't really any kind or reasonable reason. You just repeating "it's sucks, i don't like it, it's better without" without any other base.

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Originally Posted by yukikaze_yanagi

You just repeating "it's sucks, i don't like it, it's better without" without any other base.

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You're getting that meaning out of my posts? Read what I wrote again. How is balancing content with buffs any different from balancing content without buffs.

It's no different.

If it doesn't make a difference? Why add it in the first place? Especially if it incentives players to add people to their party not because of that party member's actual worth, but instead just to increase the party size to 4 or 8.

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Unless the dungeon content is too hard for just a 4-man party without the buff.

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Bingo!!!!!!!!!!!