WAR 2.1 Patch Notes

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Originally Posted by Genesiser

Looking at different parses when I run dungeons with different pally tanks. A friend of mine asked me to check it out because he was curious as to how often a pally blocks and parries vs his warriors only parry.

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45% is probably incorrect. If defensive CDs are designed with a little thought, then the highest block is probably around 40% as Bulwark gives a 60% Block chance increase, which would be plain silly if some of that was wasted.

IB compares to rampart and not block because IB/Rampart are controllable and predictable. Blocks and parry are random, and cannot be depended on to counter specific moments. The block advantage on paladin is supposed to have no direct equal on warrior. The idea is pld blocks more because, haha--its what we do. We are sword and shield. Warrior gets more dps. That's the trade, blocking for enmity.

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Originally Posted by Gamemako

You aren't using Inner Beast to take on one autoattack before a Landslide swing, either. That would be a waste. You're using Inner Beast right before the Mountain Buster, so that you take out a significant amount of damage from the attack. Hell, you never used Inner Beast on cooldown -- you just used it after the attack instead of before.



You could just as well say the damage is 7499, and that PLD is therefore 4.16% ahead. Neither are a meaningful result. A healing bonus will not allow your tank to survive a big hit, and neither bonus is relevant to that. The more accurate comparison is that Shield Oath reduces the amount of healing required by 20% while Defiance reduces it by 16.667%. Natively, a healer has to spend 4.16% more time and MP healing. You could then include other aspects, such as blocking, self-healing, and the net effect of mitigation abilities. Again, there's a lot to it.

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You'd be correct about the old IB, you'd rarely ever use it outside infuriate. However, now you use IB as often as possible now as saving Wrath stacks no longer serves any purpose, meaning you're simply wasting stacks when you're using abilities that generate them since each Wrath stack equates to some percentage of mitigation.

Now, you'd rotate between abilities like Vengeance and Infuriate for you damage mitigation.

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Originally Posted by Gamemako

You could just as well say the damage is 7499, and that PLD is therefore 4.16% ahead. Neither are a meaningful result. A healing bonus will not allow your tank to survive a big hit, and neither bonus is relevant to that. The more accurate comparison is that Shield Oath reduces the amount of healing required by 20% while Defiance reduces it by 16.667%. Natively, a healer has to spend 4.16% more time and MP healing. You could then include other aspects, such as blocking, self-healing, and the net effect of mitigation abilities. Again, there's a lot to it.

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The point was to discuss shield oath and defiance alone. How do they compare to each other without other factors. I was just attempting to show that the two passive "stances" are actually very similarly powered with pld having a minor advantage (and as the mitigation tank, they should).

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Originally Posted by Garnatian

Up no, you use IB as often as possible now as saving Wrath stacks no longer serves any purpose, meaning you're simply wasting stacks when you're using abilities that generate them.

Now, you'd rotate between abilities like Vengeance and Infuriate for you damage mitigation.

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I have no idea what you think you're getting out of bashing a 20% damage reduction ability against nothing. You're not even gaining damage because the marginal returns are cut from your crit bonus. Quite frankly, you'd be an absolutely terrible player if you did that.

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Originally Posted by Gamemako

I have no idea what you think you're getting out of bashing a 20% damage reduction ability against nothing. You're not even gaining damage because the marginal returns are cut from your crit bonus. Quite frankly, you'd be an absolutely terrible player if you did that.

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Because you're throwing away mitigation the longer you don't use it and the fact that you have Infuriate which has a 60s which you can use if you need 20% damage reduction.

You'd be correct if it took 60s to get 5 stacks, but it's a very short amount of time and saving it, especially when Infuriate exists, is simply a waste of mitigation.

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Originally Posted by Garnatian

Because you're throwing away mitigation the longer you don't use it and the fact that you have Infuriate which has a 60s which you can use if you need 20% damage reduction.

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It doesn't exactly work like that, you'd realistically want to have an IB up every 35~ seconds for death sentence in turn 5. It's 20-25 seconds for a full stack of wrath, you're most likely going to wait until she's about to cast death sentence unless you're wanting to use vengeance/infuriate.

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Originally Posted by Gamemako

You could just as well say the damage is 7499, and that PLD is therefore 4.16% ahead. Neither are a meaningful result. A healing bonus will not allow your tank to survive a big hit, and neither bonus is relevant to that. The more accurate comparison is that Shield Oath reduces the amount of healing required by 20% while Defiance reduces it by 16.667

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With no wrath stacks (no defiance healing), a war with 8000 hp requires 8000 hp to be healed full from 0. With wrath stacks, the same war requires ~6957 hp to be healed full from 0. The amount of healing reduced is 8000 - 6957 = 1043. The amount reduced as a portion of the whole is 1043 / 8000 = ~0.13. Defiance (currently) reduces healing required by 13%.

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Originally Posted by Giantbane

With no wrath stacks (no defiance healing), a war with 8000 hp requires 8000 hp to be healed full from 0. With wrath stacks, the same war requires ~6957 hp to be healed full from 0. The amount of healing reduced is 8000 - 6957 = 1043. The amount reduced as a portion of the whole is 1043 / 8000 = ~0.13. Defiance (currently) reduces healing required by 13%.

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We're talking about the proposed buff, which moves it to a 20% fixed bonus instead of a 15% variable one. You're right about current Defiance, but that's not the topic. :p

So SE decide to make WAR have some DR huh?

but some skill looks stupid in my eyes

Vengeance - ALSO reduced damage taken by 30%

WAT!? Vengeance by it mean, its suppose to reflect damage or something counter attack back at foes. NOW its reduced 30% damage taken and what the point to reflect damage? Less damage taken, less reflecting damage.

Its sound contradictory

AND What about FORESIGHT? SE will not change anything of this? WAT? RALLY? 5% DR regardless 20% def up? you seriously not see its useless?