WAR fix: Storm's Path comb

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Originally Posted by Leiron

But frankly, altering the healing a Warrior does will NOT work period.

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It seems that you are not a fan of the whole self heals mechanic at all. Well, I like it, and feel that there is redemption
We could go back and forth with quoting, and counter quote forever. Either way, we actually agree that WAR needs to be fixed. We just may not agree on the means to do it.

"But frankly, altering the healing a Warrior does will NOT work period"

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I'd state just a few of the countless reasons your wrong, but if you ACTUALLY believe that, then trying to reason with you is a waste of time in the first place.
You CLEARLY prefer paladin mechanics over warrior mechanics, so just play your paladin and leave warrior discussion alone please. I agree that warrior needs to be buffed, but aside from that, I quite like it how it is.
In every game I play I prefer the self-healing/lifesteal class. If you dont like that style of gameplay, its your problem, not a flaw of the class in question.

I tried to help...

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Originally Posted by Kalec

"But frankly, altering the healing a Warrior does will NOT work period"
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I'd state just a few of the countless reasons your wrong, but if you ACTUALLY believe that, then trying to reason with you is a waste of time in the first place.

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So because I have a view that differs from you, and though you have COUNTLESS reasons that I can b wrong, you feel it is pointless, and do not want to explain why all of these countless reasons you hold in your pocket.
Gotcha.

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Originally Posted by Kalec

You CLEARLY prefer paladin mechanics over warrior mechanics, so just play your paladin and leave warrior discussion alone please.

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Yes...because I can see where the failings are in a class, that means I prefer my paladin's mechanics.
Just so you ca feel stupid, Warrior is my preferred tanking class.
But do continue with your assumptions of my character, they're only a desperate attempt to hide an argument you cannot properly defend or articulate.

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Originally Posted by Kalec

I agree that warrior needs to be buffed, but aside from that, I quite like it how it is.
In every game I play I prefer the self-healing/lifesteal class. If you dont like that style of gameplay, its your problem, not a flaw of the class in question.

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Too bad, I don't care for your preference.
I care about equal capability.
Warriors are not equal.
Life steal mechanics are not very good because they walk a fine line between underwhelming and overpowered.

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Originally Posted by Hulk_Smash

It seems that you are not a fan of the whole self heals mechanic at all. Well, I like it, and feel that there is redemption
We could go back and forth with quoting, and counter quote forever. Either way, we actually agree that WAR needs to be fixed. We just may not agree on the means to do it.

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Its not that I dislike self heal mechanics as a whole, rather, I find that they are simply too clunky for effective tanking, and do not mesh too well.
If your healing is powerful enough to be of use, then you risk being the preferred tank and shoving Paladins aside.
If it is underwhelming, well, you end up in the current situation.
While I can admire the desire to maintain the life steal mechanic, it simply cannot be the basis upon which Warrior tanking is founded upon.

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Originally Posted by Hulk_Smash

In that case, healer wouldn't have to spend so much time and MP healing the WAR tank. They could instead heal the DD's that get hit

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No, over healing means you healed when there is nothing to heal.
This isn't something you can coordinate very well or easily.
You can't say "popping Inner beast don't heal me." while a WHM is in the middle of a Cure II.
For cases where there are spikes of damage, a healer cannot help but focus on you, and some of the healing gets wasted.
Not the case with PLD, and because of this, it makes PLD significantly easier to heal.
Which is silly.

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Originally Posted by Hulk_Smash

They have a mitigation mechanic. Deal damage, and heal yourself based off the damage dealt. The only problem is that its returns are diminished at the moment

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Its not a case of diminished, its a case of simply being incapable of scaling with the content.
So for example, Warriors are great up to Titan.
When you hit Titan that's when the problem shows itself.
The damage simply scales too quickly for the healing to keep up.
The healing is also far too slow for periods where you get bursted regularly.
Caduceus is a scenario that is particularly silly.
A Paladin merely needs to pop a CD past 3 stacks.
Warriors tend to struggle afterwards.

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Originally Posted by Hulk_Smash

I like my mitigation to be more active. We have passives in the background already. Defiance is fine in my opinion. The skills associated with it need work though

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Actually defiance is quite bad.
Example
Warrior with 1250hp
Paladin with 1k hp

Incoming damage of 300

The Paladin mitigates 20%, so they take 240.
Warriors takes all of it.

760 hp needs 240 to be full.
950 hp needs 300 to be full

Toss the heal of 200 in

960 paladin (40 left)
1180 hp (70 left) (since its 230 for a Warrior with 5 stacks).

A poor example to be sure, but as you can see, it takes more healing to keep a Warrior up than it does the Paladin.

Furthermore, your defiance is not 100% up time due to inner beast usage. So it falls a bit behind.
You can make the mitigation active, just like RS does in RIFT>
FOr a riftstalker, they need to use Finishers/teleporting to trigger their shield.
The mitigation is an active 10% for Rogues, but for a Warrior paladin, that 10% is passive.
So you can work with the mechanics, but ensure they are equal at a job.

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Originally Posted by Hulk_Smash

Yeah, checking profiles has value. When you get in a dungeon, or primal battle, do you check the gear of your healers, and / or tanks?

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Except that the purpose is entirely different.
You are checking a profile in the hopes of support an already concocted idea.
IN a dungeon/Primal battle, you can't check their gear until AFTER you enter, and even then, you're evaluating how well geared they are, but that does not mean they are incapable of doing the content unless they are severely undergeared.
So no, profile checking has no basis unfortunately, simply because there is no obective reasoning behind it as you would a dungeon encounter.

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Originally Posted by Hulk_Smash

I think that I acknowledged that the heal mechanics need to be fixed. I never said they where effective.

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Fair enough.

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Originally Posted by kasuke06

why not give war a different kind of active mitigation? say that our combo enders(block, path, the other one that I can't remember right now) put up a shield that absorbs incoming damage relative to the damage done?

we keep the heals from other moves, and foresight instead of 25% defense becomes a shield composed of 25% of your health. more defensive, not a paladin, and it scales well with how warriors tank. Maybe rework steel cyclone to provide a shield for 10% of your HP per enemy hit.

WAR becomes about stacking health so you can block more with your attacks. still no percentage reductions, and we can still self heal like a boss. though, that might make us OP.

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Well Foresight needs to change PERIOD.
Its a really...really stupid cooldown.
Warrior has foresight, but PLD gets Rampart AND Sentinel?
*shakes head*

The developers really should have re-evaluated the cooldowns since it does not take much math, or any math, to determine there is a disparity in the CD's alone.

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Originally Posted by Leiron

equivalent to Hallowed ground.

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Of all the flawed mechanics I can think of the top of my head; an on demand-invuln, is usually, the worst of them. It's just a stupid mechanic, especially if it lasts a long-time.

It either needs to work on mechanics, then it's OP, or it needs to be penetrated by mechanics to make it not OP. Thus, essentially reducing it to a crutch to survive mechanics that otherwise should be survivable by proper skill-orientated means. There is no continuum for tuning something like that (besides duration and cooldown, which then convolutes the issue even more); so it either works and makes everybody who doesn't have it mad, or it doesn't and make everybody does have it mad.

Don't give WAR's that stupid move (which apparently is contributing to making encounter design sooooooooo hard), remove it from the game. And never look back. This is one of those times where it necessitates nerfing over buffing if you ask me.

Ultimately, I do agree with you about everything else though. There is a massive communication problem between the class devs and the content devs.

"I prefer my paladin's mechanics."

"Warrior is my preferred tanking class."

"Just so you ca feel stupid"

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Ok, you win. ^_^

For an equivalent to Hallowed Ground, why not add in a some kind of ability on the same cooldown as HG, that returns 1000% of the damage dealt as health. It's effectively god mode for 10 seconds, BUT doesn't steal from pally stuff, and you can't sit with your thumb up your ass.

edit for more characters

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Originally Posted by Kalec

"I prefer my paladin's mechanics."

"Warrior is my preferred tanking class."

"Just so you can feel stupid"

Ok, you win. ^_^

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Prefer Paladin mechanics = prefer Paladin mechanics.
Prefer playing Warrior = prefer playing Warrior.
The two statements are not a contradiction, since you can prefer one class, but like another classes mechanics more.
Spend less time trying to be witty, and more time trying to provide an intelligent response beyond the whole "LOLOLOL" nonsense. Kthxbai.

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Originally Posted by RapBreon

Of all the flawed mechanics I can think of the top of my head; an on demand-invuln, is usually, the worst of them. It's just a stupid mechanic, especially if it lasts a long-time.

It either needs to work on mechanics, then it's OP, or it needs to be penetrated by mechanics to make it not OP. Thus, essentially reducing it to a crutch to survive mechanics that otherwise should be survivable by proper skill-orientated means. There is no continuum for tuning something like that (besides duration and cooldown, which then convolutes the issue even more); so it either works and makes everybody who doesn't have it mad, or it doesn't and make everybody does have it mad.

Don't give WAR's that stupid move (which apparently is contributing to making encounter design sooooooooo hard), remove it from the game. And never look back. This is one of those times where it necessitates nerfing over buffing if you ask me.

Ultimately, I do agree with you about everything else though. There is a massive communication problem between the class devs and the content devs.

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Hallowed ground IS penetrated by mechanics actually.
If the damage is completely unavoidable, such as Titan's AOE and Ifrit's Nail AoE or Garuda's Aerial Blast, the PLD will take damage anyway.
Given that SE is less into nerfing and is more into buffing, it would be better to see Warrior's raised to the same level of a Paladin.

At the same time, I would not be opposed to seeing Marauder's having a DPS oriented job.

increase warrior damage 500%. Fixed

Idk why no one has said this but WAR should just use parry as it's secondary dam mit and possibly add some srt of small healing percentage to damage mitigated from parries.