YPYT is griefing. Tank role is not "puller" role

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Originally Posted by Desna

... I've been healing too long, if a DPS pulls ahead of the tank? I don't heal them, period ... It's just...way too easy to wait and let the tank determine the speed of the run and the pull sizes. If you don't want to wait? Run a Tank...

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That's a dangerous mindset to have. Intentionally not healing can lead to a griefing report.

I main tanks. I love maining tanks. If someone is more than maybe a step or to in front of me, I have screwed up. I remember being a fresh, terrified little tank, and it was DPS and healers pushing me to grab more that lead to being confident. Plus, dungeon-wise, every dungeon is basically the same Pack-Pack-Boss-Pack-Pack-Boss formula. Pulling one pack at a time is a waste of everyone's resources. The only situation I can think of where it's a bad idea to mega-pull is Deep Dungeons.

And my SO main's a healer. He's pulled ahead of slow tanks before as well, because as he puts it, he's the one who knows if everyone will stay alive or not since he decides it, and it's much more fun to holy spam all the enemies rather than just three.

I also have maxed every single job (to wildly varying levels of competence, but details). That gives you a better understanding of why people do things and what is actually a problem. A DPS pulling ahead with arms length to get a bit of their own buffs? That's just extra mit and getting them more resources can help things die faster. One AoE is all it takes to get aggro back. I will do my absolute best to grab ASAP. A DPS/healer panic running away? THAT is an issue. I'll try to grab as I go, but I'm not gonna chase someone down and screw up the rest of the run.

No one gets to unilaterally decide a run speed in a group game. This is a group game. The DPS's time is no less important than the tank's. There are trusts and party finder for tanks who feel uncomfortable with big pulls. Or they can make a quick macro to specify at the beginning and maybe people can help build up their confidence and teach them better tanking.

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Originally Posted by Ransu

Yes it does. Tanks job is to control the threat of all the mobs. Its not the healers job, its not the dps job and if you wanna pull, have fun dealing with that mob.

You sound like one of those players that runs ahead and pulls cuz the tank isn't going fast enough for you. To be blunt, players like you are the problem, not tanks that abide by the rule of YPYT.



WTF are you talking about? Nothing about the tutorials even remotely suggest that. This isn't 2001 with exp farming parties where a ranged pulls mobs back to a groups camp. Welcome to 2022 and modern MMO's. Its the tanks job to pull and to control the flow of a dungeon.



If a tanks not comfortable with bigger pulls then they are not comfortable. If you don't like their pace then leave and take the leaver penalty, otherwise suck it up its not that big of a deal if your dungeon run adds an extra 5 minutes because you don't have the patience to deal with someone who may be new to tanking.

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You have an instant gain aggro button. You turn on tank stance, hit a mob, you gained aggro and as long as you have it on there is no actual way you lose aggro unless you turn it off or stop doing damage entirely. The latter is 100% griefing.

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Originally Posted by Setts

as long as you have it on there is no actual way you lose aggro unless you turn it off or stop doing damage entirely.

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This unfortunately isn't quite true, my pocket tank has a few experiences of me peeling stuff off her in pulls as both WHM and SMN (more as SMN because of that stupid enmity gain that SMN has for absolutely NO reason), it is rare and it shouldn't happen, but it can and does.

As the game degrades in quality, more toxicity will come out of the players and we will be fighting each other when we should be fighting Cbu3/squex.
Bad behavior is a symptom of problems with the game.

Dps pull early because theyre bored or rushing or rushing because theyre bored. Make instanced duties dangerous enough to dps that they cant. Make normal content more challenging. Make it more rewarding.

Squex claimed to want to make rewards what, 50% better? But did practically nothing. If they made the game more challenging, they could add new ways to get stronger with gear related or new things.

Dawntrail content was a relative increase in challenge, i can say that is good, though they simplified the jobs more again. And I dont like savage esque design where you have to know whats going to happen beforehand to succeed at the mechanic though. They did this to try to build people up into doing savage (since it's currently a waste of resources for a small minority of the playerbase) but this failed.

Something coming with evercold is the weekly flexibility with daily things. That is good and will help. People wont feel the need to rush if they arent trying to play at times when they have limited time.

Id say dungeon walls are bad. Let us decide how much challenge we want to face and let us reward ourselves overcoming that challenge with faster clears. You could test and leave dungeon walls at points where it is virtually impossible to survive pulling further though.

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Originally Posted by Desna

"Communicating with a party that you struggle with big pulls or are a new player is not what we're talking about. We're talking about all the experienced tank players (any tank who is level 90 and not a sprout/returning player) in the game that grief the party when they are not the one who touched the mob first."

I see the point? Sort of? I don't main a tank, I main a Healer and I've been playing MMORPGs since 2006 (World of Warcraft). I get not wanting built up DPS buffs to drop off etc, but...if you pull ahead of the tank...you're the problem. It's just such a microscopic thing to wait, let the tank have their moment to sort out what they're gonna pull and to where. I've been healing too long, if a DPS pulls ahead of the tank? I don't heal them, period, I don't want the aggro on me, so if the tank doesn't grab the mob, or if the DPS was astronomically obnoxious and pulled more than one mob forcing the tank to clean up their mess when sometimes getting the aggro is more than Tank Stance can deliver in one AOE attack because the DPS just won't stop hitting the mobs? They deserve the DPS debuff they'll get from dying and as the healer...I don't deserve the aggro they create with their impatience. It's just...way too easy to wait and let the tank determine the speed of the run and the pull sizes. If you don't want to wait? Run a Tank...so so so easy and so completely guaranteed not to aggravate other players. I do agree, if you're tanking and want to take your time and work on placements and pull orders? Speak up at the beginning, let your group know you want to pull one group at a time etc...but I don't ever agree with putting pressure on a Tank by running ahead and pulling things unless they invite you to do so in advance and your healer is ready to keep your butt alive.

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You play wow, um… cool? This is Ffxiv. Tanking works differently in this game.

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Originally Posted by Desna

I see the point? Sort of? I don't main a tank.
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It shows, because nothing works the way you wrote it after that. If the DPS doesn't stop DPSing, you as the healer will never pull aggro from them, ever. The tank with tank stance however will always pull aggro off of them. And again, there is no added stress, there is no added thought process on "what do I use to regain aggro?" You just use whatever buttons you would've used anyway and boom, you got aggro. And with how astronomical the aggro generation is on tanks, you won't ever lose it again either.

What are you even talking about with "placement" and "pull orders"? There are no orders. You can't decide shit in this game. You pull the first group of mobs in the tube-shaped dungeon, then you pull the next group. You can't decide what you pull, not even in older dungeons because CBU3 decided to turn them into even more current-design-tubes.
And what placement? You place them at the next wall, that's literally all you have to do. That's all the strategy there is to it.

It's ok not to heal the DPS btw. I only do this on self sufficient DPS, so you won't see me dying to a trash pull.

The tank has no responsibility on running toward you to save you. If you pull then bring it to the tank. The tank does not need to go to narnia to save you. Is only YPYT when you tried to bring the mobs to the tank and the tank refuses to take the agro. Otherwise is all on you.

If you early pull when some new player is watching a cut scene. No one has the responsibility to save you either. You decided on your own to risk it. I would argue that in this case is you the one doing the griefing and paying the consequences with karma.

Most content have a reasonable time before a boss. Some content does not. (like ifrit or stone virgil). But those are very few. Waiting 10 to 20 seconds won't kill you. Common courtesy won't kill you.

How about, if one tank is being petty and provoke spam fighting with the other tank, the healer doesnt heal him? If there is only one tank then there's no one to fight with :D

I mean, Ive had a healer not heal a red mage just because the red mage used a potion and threw a couple vercures (one cast+dualcast) on himself after the invuln wore off after dying and being rezzed.
Kept him from dying to an unavoidable aoe afterward too.
But the healer just said, "What are you waiting for? Vercure yourself."
Like damn xD talk about petty. I never knew a healer that insulted over spot healing in a highly risky situation where the group is struggling.
And no the red mage was not wasting gcds that could have been spent on dps excessively vercuring. He was just helping himself not die in a very specific situation. And vercure actually heals a bit on a dps, not nearly as useless as a summoner's physick.

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Originally Posted by Wildheaven182

I mean, Ive had a healer not heal a red mage just because the red mage used a potion and threw a couple vercures (one cast+dualcast) on himself after the invuln wore off after dying and being rezzed.
Kept him from dying to an unavoidable aoe afterward too.
But the healer just said, "What are you waiting for? Vercure yourself."
Like damn xD talk about petty. I never knew a healer that insulted over spot healing in a highly risky situation where the group is struggling.

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I'm sorry-what the hell? I sometimes look at a RDM vercuring and think "you're adorable" but this is insane.

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Originally Posted by Alice_Rivers

This unfortunately isn't quite true, my pocket tank has a few experiences of me peeling stuff off her in pulls as both WHM and SMN (more as SMN because of that stupid enmity gain that SMN has for absolutely NO reason), it is rare and it shouldn't happen, but it can and does.

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wrong. its literally impossible for dps or anyone to pull aggro off the tank unless the tank just literally isnt attacking. if that happens that means ur tank is asleep at the wheel. also smn does not generate extra enmity. that line in the "summon bahamut" (or other demis) about how the skill generates enmity just means that you cant summon without aggroing whatever u target. it does not generate any extra enmity over any other skill.

also if ur blasting the first pack before you get to the second pack youre just playing wrong (and still shouldn't be pulling aggro regardless)