World of Warcraft died because the developers only catered to casuals and world prog

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Originally Posted by LeonKeyh

I hope I "fail" like WoW has. I'll take $9,230,000,000 and be considered a "failure."

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I mean it has failed at storytelling I think that's what the quote meant.
A lot of games ( probably most tbh ) have complete garbage stories but still are incredibly profitable.
WoW also has some pretty severe levels of nostalgia bias and lives off of what Blizzard used to be.
A lot of people just get hyped up about Blizzard games because it's Blizzard and no other reason.

I have a very hard time understanding how people can continue playing games that makes them so angry tho.
There's so many people who genuinely seem to hate the game but still play it non-stop, same goes for other games too.
If a game makes you unhappy it's time to stop.
I think the addiction is pretty deep.

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Originally Posted by Ronduwil

If you're going to (incorrectly) accuse WoW of casualizing the game, you should at least take the trouble to understand how it's working right now. You weren't even correct about Cataclysm.

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I mean, not to be rude, but it doesn't seem like you read my post. I literally said the WoW of today is a hardcore Korean grind MMO.

Also, easymode PvP gear, raid finder, class homogenization all happened during Cata. Dungeons are a moot point because they were nerfed into oblivion and became braindead.

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Originally Posted by Imoye

I literally said the WoW of today is a hardcore Korean grind MMO.

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Just caught the tail end of this discussion and am curious about why you think that only the "WoW of today" is a hardcore grind MMO?

WoW didn't die from being made more casual, as from day 0 it was designed as a streamlined and more casual version of existing mmorpgs at the time. Some of its lightning-in-a-bottle success in the early days such as questing, was originally due to "a navigation error in which players would accidentally wander into higher level zones".

It was more negatively affected by the amount of grindy and timegated aspects put in it. That made even their own version of the Palace of the Dead known as Torghast be known as 'Choreghast'. People may bemoan PotD and find it boring, but its never been mandatory for your endgame raids and trials.

There was also of how the devs didn't seem to really care about listening to the players, especially for shadowlands when they said they were listening but stubbornly still thought certain things would go fine with the players despite their protests.

Or of how many temporary systems would get added/adjusted/removed to act as a sort of treadmill for players. Like can you imagine getting Blade's Justice for drk from Bozja during shadowbringers, and then that same relic you obtained can no longer be obtained when endwalker launched?

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Originally Posted by Tanis_Ebonhart

They're also blindsided that apparently everyone was under mind control by the Jailer at some point or another, the Jailer is responsible for every event, and that Sylvanas apparently had her soul split off-screen so they could give her a pass for every evil deed she did because "an evil man made her do it" and "she was crazy at the time".

And what's with all the Windrunner sisters having a Human white dude as their lover? Are the Devs just self-inserting themselves into romancing the Windrunners?

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ah yes. the good old mind control trick so we don't have to replace NPCs

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Originally Posted by Kolsykol

I have a very hard time understanding how people can continue playing games that makes them so angry tho.
There's so many people who genuinely seem to hate the game but still play it non-stop, same goes for other games too.

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Friends are still playing.
Sunk cost fallacy.
Loss of time investment.
Simple nostalgia for something they had once enjoyed.

The first one is pretty big - that's how I kept getting dragged back into WoW during Warlords of Draenor and Legion. Friends would say "come back to play with us, they're making X change in the upcoming patch that will make the game better". But as they also started losing interest in WoW and reducing the amount of time they would play, it made it easier for me to finally make the clean break at the end of Legion.

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Originally Posted by DPZ2

Just caught the tail end of this discussion and am curious about why you think that only the "WoW of today" is a hardcore grind MMO?

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The grind in Vanilla was gradually thinned out in Burning Crusade and really didn't exist Wrath to Mists of Pandaria. A few elements had their grind but they weren't mandatory to play the game in general. The grind started reappearing in WoD. Those who started after BC would see the grind as a recent development.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

Friends are still playing.
Sunk cost fallacy.
Loss of time investment.
Simple nostalgia for something they had once enjoyed.

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Hope, that the game will be good again. :(


Cheers

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Originally Posted by Larirawiel

Hope, that the game will be good again. :(

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ah yes. The biggest evil.
Hope

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Originally Posted by Imoye

There's really no evidence to support that claim. Every time a new MMO launches there's massive interest. New World and Lost Ark are the most recent examples. FFXIV is also doing better than ever and has consistently been gaining subs. Other games such as Elder Scrolls, GW2, Black Desert etc. retain solid player numbers. Little is different now from when WoW was dominant in terms of numbers. Back then, a large proportion of the genre's player base was consentrated in that single game, now it's more spread.

Also, people have been saying "MMOs are dying" since forever. The claim holds zero weight.

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There is a thing called new hype...

But new world died out for most ppl in a month. Lost ark isnt all that either... They only last until the fresh new hype appears thats not surival thats just abusing hype.


But tbh mmos in general are going 2 die due to oversimplication abd over accessability.


Plus lets be honest wow was trash even when classic was new compared to eq/dark age of camelot. It has horrible story u cant follow unless you buy like 150 dollars worth of books lol and the gameplay and combat was way worse than dark age of camelot,

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Originally Posted by hagare

ah yes. The biggest evil.
Hope

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https://i.imgflip.com/lwpd9.jpg

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Originally Posted by Nekokaori

Plus lets be honest wow was trash even when classic was new compared to eq/dark age of camelot. It has horrible story u cant follow unless you buy like 150 dollars worth of books lol and the gameplay and combat was way worse than dark age of camelot,

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Seriously? IMHO, WoW Vanilla was WAY better than Everquest. It was more accessible, more polished, less buggy, better graphics, less laggy etc. You can still play the old Everquest for free, see Project1999. And you will see, the game is terrible. :) There are reasons why Everquest died when WoW Vanilla came out.

And WoW Vanilla was never a real story game. It is more comparable to D&D. You have a world and you play some campaigns in it. Chris Metzen, the inventor of the Warcraft universe is a tabletop guy. You could play the game and follow the stories in it without the books. With the books you got some background informations. But the books were not necessary to understand what is going on in the game. This problem has the current WoW. It is not possible to figure out why some things happen and why the pro-/antagonists act like they act without the books. I guess, the current devs tried to make a transition from a D&D-like game to a story game. And they failed badly.


Cheers