Consolidated White Mage 4.0 Feedback Thread

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Originally Posted by Ryahask

Maybe because SCH lost their crazy aoe damage which was a luxury, not an essential component of their kit while still receiving incredible new abilities and barely losing anything to the role system. SCH gets better single target healing which has always been a weakness of theirs, an amazing utility heal that people aren't talking about enough in Excogitation, a boost to their heal efficiency in the swap to Cleric's stance, new damage utility, and they get access to 2 incredible role skills they never had before.

By comparison, WHM lost more skills than any job in the game to the cross-role system as a Job with an already sparse kit. Their only new ability which isn't simply more overhealing is a shield, for which they lost a shield (Stoneskin). No new utility, none of their previous weaknesses covered. The closest thing to a meaningful NEW ability WHM is getting is in Thin Air, which, realistically, does nothing in difficult content unless MP values have been inflated to make it valuable.

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Single target healing was a weakness? Do you even play Scholar? lol If anything, Excog was not even needed. It's the perfect CD to have with how Cleric Stance used to work, but as of now it's just a slightly better Lustrate that you'll only ever get off on a tank. While we didn't lose as much as WHM to role skills, I'll feel the loss of Virus more than the benefits of gaining a 20% heal buff that, again, wasn't even needed for the job.

Also, Thin Air could potentially make WHM the easiest job to manage MP on, considering most ASTs won't be wanting to use Ewers. If the MP costs are reflective of what we've been used to in HW, SCH will easily have the hardest time in that department too. WHM may not have received much, but it didn't get nerfed anywhere near as hard as SCH. And with N.AST retaining a 15% heal increase, it's more than valid for SCHs to be feeling a little shafted from what we're seeing. I'm still reserving judgement for now, but now that we have numbers it's looking a little bleak for for both except AST who continues to get buffed even now. :'D

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Originally Posted by SuzakuCMX

10% MP 3 Second Cast vs. 15% No Cost Instant Cast? Sounds good.

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I think you missed the fact that it now has a half minute cooldown and requires at least a cast of Cure II to use with the added bonus of being restricted in use if you want to use Lilies for something else.

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Originally Posted by Niroken

I think you missed the fact that it now has a half minute cooldown and requires at least a cast of Cure II to use with the added bonus of being restricted in use if you want to use Lilies for something else.

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Cure I is 50% chance of getting a Lily and Cure II is 100% so it's unlikely you won't have a Lily when you need to use the shield, and why would you ever need a shield more than once every 30 seconds? Tank Busters don't happen that often. Did you really waste your MP using Stoneskin that often?

I made a post earlier in this thread about some of the things I didn't think where designed very well on WHM, and since I've got nothing better to do, I thought I might post about some things I think are neat additions to WHM to add a little contrast.

Thin Air looks really good. WHM has been a class that has been able to burn large amount of MP to do cool stuff. That fact that we can go into one of these burns without burning is pretty cool.

Stoneskin -> DB. I am really looking forward to this. The majority of the time SS and SSII were dead skills. Cure II > SS. SSII couldn't be used in combat. Then if you didn't have a WHM you occasionally had to wait on healers to cast all SS before you could start. While I did appreciate SC SSII for dungeons, I am happy to see it go. DB seems like it will actually be useful in every fight.

Rescue. This has been on my wish list for a long time. Can't wait.

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Originally Posted by SuzakuCMX

Cure I is 50% chance of getting a Lily and Cure II is 100% so it's unlikely you won't have a Lily when you need to use the shield, and why would you ever need a shield more than once every 30 seconds? Tank Busters don't happen that often. Did you really waste your MP using Stoneskin that often?

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The bottom line is that in terms of practicality where you the new shield will be useful, Stoneskin already was. Did it have a higher cost? Yeah, but it wasn't too significant. To be clear, I do think Benison will be better. There's no doubt there, but a massive improvement? Eh, not really.

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Originally Posted by SuzakuCMX

They lost 2 DoTs; one from their main kit and one from cross-role while also losing a ton of AoE damage

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DoTs are being consolidated across the board, this isn't a SCH specific issue. So, they've lost AoE damage.

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Originally Posted by SuzakuCMX

Since when? They've always lacked in AoE healing and been the best single target healer due to stacking Physick and Fairy heals with Lustrate and Fey Illumination lol. Embrace lost 50 potency btw.

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They still retain Fey Illumination, it's now a cross class skill. I should have specified; outside of Aetherflow SCH has always lacked considerable single target heals, now they have yet another avenue.

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Originally Posted by SuzakuCMX

MP Management?
Do you not know about WHM's long standing battle with MP Management?

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I think you misunderstand being the only Job that actually has MP management (Discounting DRK) with difficulty. Apart from needing to excessively resurrect WHM is fine with the current MP tools it has. Sure, Thin Air will be hilarious for Holy Spam or for firing off 4 Resurrects, but most often you'll use it for 5 free Stone IV's - it's a gimmick. A nice gimmick, but it's minor and it won't impact the weaker aspects of WHM. WHM could already go net neutral in MP without outside influence unless constantly needing to ress.

Overall WHM is getting some new tools which will useful, but not nearly so many as others and they're losing far more than most in the exchange. That's why people are emphasizing it. I don't understand how you could suggest SCH is in a worse position given all they're receiving in exchange for, mostly, aoe damage.

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Originally Posted by Kabzy

If the MP costs are reflective of what we've been used to in HW, SCH will easily have the hardest time in that department too. WHM may not have received much, but it didn't get nerfed anywhere near as hard as SCH. And with N.AST retaining a 15% heal increase, it's more than valid for SCHs to be feeling a little shafted from what we're seeing. I'm still reserving judgement for now, but now that we have numbers it's looking a little bleak for for both except AST who continues to get buffed even now. :'D

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I'd love you to explain this because I must be missing something. Aetherflow return is being lowered, but they have the potential for higher use of Aetherflow and they're receiving a new MP management tool. I do agree though, it's odd that out of the 3 the only Healer getting clearly bumped up is AST.

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Originally Posted by Ryahask

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What is SCH receiving exactly? Is it the 2% extra crit buff? The slightly more potent Lustrate that is meaningless really as Cleric stance is no longer what it used to be. Is it the Aetherpact when the healing potency has been halved? Is that what we got in return for the nerf in Bane, Embrace, Fey Illumination, Shadow Flare and Aetherflow? The deletion of Super Virus, Miasma II and Blizzard II? Oh, I'm definitely super excited by all I have gotten in return for these nerfs. Seriously, dude.

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Originally Posted by Ryahask

The bottom line is that in terms of practicality where you the new shield will be useful, Stoneskin already was. Did it have a higher cost? Yeah, but it wasn't too significant.\

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Except it was because it had a cast time and a huge MP cost. 2.5 Second Cast Time and 884 Mana (that's the same as a Cure II, are you saying you can afford to use Cure II willy-nilly cuz the cost isn't significant?) is significant.

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DoTs are being consolidated across the board, this isn't a SCH specific issue. So, they've lost AoE damage.

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It is when SCH was specifically the DoT king and also received nerfs to Bane.....unlike AST who got Earthly Star and WHM who has an AoE DoT that doesn't decrease with # of targets and two other AoE damage abilities in the game. SCH's AoE sucks compared to the other two healers. Fact.

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outside of Aetherflow SCH has always lacked considerable single target heals, now they have yet another avenue.

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They have always had the strongest single target heals because they stacked Fairy Embrace on top of Physick to pump out more baseline healing than other classes. Now, the other two classes had their base heal potencies increased (450 for WHM and 430? for AST) while fairy Embrace has been nerfed. SCH lacked AoE healing prior to HW because Succor could not compete with Medica/Cure III. In HW they got Indominability but could not keep up with sustained AoE damage so still needed to rely on the co-healer and that has not changed. Now they lack AoE Damage AND AoE healing.

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I think you misunderstand being the only Job that actually has MP management (Discounting DRK) with difficulty. Apart from needing to excessively resurrect WHM is fine with the current MP tools it has

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No, it's not. It has the least MP management out of the 3 classes (speaking of HW not SB) because it only has Shroud of Saints and Assize. Aetherflow is ridiculously good for Scholar because they get so many free heals from fairy and lustrate that the 20% MP regain is enough to give them infinite MP. Meanwhile WHM has to spam Cure II and Medica and Cure III to heal everyone up. AST gets Luminiferous Aether and Lightspeed and can also give itself an Ewer if it needs to while being able to extend LA/LS on itself with Celestial Opposition. Bottomline: WHM has the worst MP Management and highest MP Usage of the three healers and has always been weak in MP Management.

Your post shows a lack of understanding of the healers. Are you sure you've even played them?

Regardless this isn't about which class is worse off. It's about "If the king of healers SCH is nerfed then isn't WHM comparatively better off even if they lost skills to cross-role actions"

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Originally Posted by SuzakuCMX

Do you not know about WHM's long standing battle with MP Management?

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If you have problems with MP management in 3.x on WHM, that's a personal problem, or your group is terrible with mechanics. :/ Just saying, because any WHM worth their salt shouldn't be having MP issues. Thin Air is just a "lol I get to spam XYZ expensive spell skill". I highly doubt it's going to be super needed. That's likely why so many are happy about it, because it is an actual fun skill, omg we got one... xD lol

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Originally Posted by SuzakuCMX

10% MP 3 Second Cast vs. 15% No Cost Instant Cast? Sounds good.

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You mean HP? But stoneskin actually had a 2.5 sec cast time, and no cooldown and, in 2.0 it used to be an 18% HP shield vs. 15% costs all lilies (and requires 1 to cast) with a 30 second cooldown. It's far less convenient to use for not that much better and it's worse than the old stoneskin was. I would totally take our current stoneskin vs. this new bubble anytime. Plus, it's a level 66 ability while stoneskin was 34 and usable in lower level content. White mages now have no form of mitigation within their job until level 66.

You kinda forget that Bane is now getting the same Nerf Holy got in 3.0. Welcome to the club. I will grant you the Shadow Flare nerf sucks, though.

Embrace losing 50 potency isn't going to get any sympathy from me. The fairy gives you access to buffs for the group along with free spot healing that's a pretty nice deal considering we have a lot more holes where skills went than you guys do now.

WHM and SCH both got hit in the nuts hard. I'm sure we can both agree to that. Now that SCH has been hit hard, surely you can understand at least a little how WHMs are feeling since we got hit in both 3.0 and 4.0. We're kinda tired of taking hits and this one hurts even more since we really didn't get anything that neat in 4.0. Thin Air? Sure, that could be great. But the rest is garbage and brings nothing to benefit our party with.

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Originally Posted by Reiryuu

WHM and SCH both got hit in the nuts hard. I'm sure we can both agree to that. Now that SCH has been hit hard, surely you can understand at least a little how WHMs are feeling since we got hit in both 3.0 and 4.0. We're kinda tired of taking hits and this one hurts even more since we really didn't get anything that neat in 4.0. Thin Air? Sure, that could be great. But the rest is garbage and brings nothing to benefit our party with.

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My point is if SCH got hit hard then that puts WHM at a comparatively better position for raid content. Thin Air is fun. Assize at a lower CD, reduced further by Lilies (with increased proc rate of 50%/100%) is fun. Being able to devote 12 seconds of nonstop fun times to costless DPS or bombass heals is going to be fun. Being able to pump out my oGCD heals at lower CDs is fun.

Fuck Confession stacks though they need to change that.