fflogs and privacy

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Originally Posted by BigCheez

I don't play ESO, so I could be wrong, but I was under the impression that ESOLogs works in an identical manner to FFLogs, i.e. you need to opt out to be hidden, but their damage meter is only able to capture info for players who are also using the damage meter. So you won't have logs if you don't run a damage meter yourself.

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All three logging websites link to the same patreon page. Also if it's true and using ACT is bannable they can't really go for an Opt-in because otherwise everyone who is logging and uploads a log that only has themselves visible in it because everyone else has not opted-in could get banned.

I feel fflogs is being blown out of proportion. Don't want to have your logs visible? Hide them via lodestone. I did. Done and dusted. If someone doesn't want me in a party because they're hidden? No harm, no foul. Not my type of player or vibe to play with anyway.

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Originally Posted by Parona

All three logging websites link to the same patreon page. Also if it's true and using ACT is bannable they can't really go for an Opt-in because otherwise everyone who is logging and uploads a log that only has themselves visible in it because everyone else has not opted-in could get banned.

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Yeah, WarcraftLogs, FFLogs, ESOLogs and SWTORLogs are all developed by the same team. They're essentially just reskins of the same website designed to work with different log formats.

I'm not sure. While ACT is 100% a third-party tool because it has the ability to directly hook into the game client, someone could still make the argument that they were sent a log file which they uploaded, therefore they didn't use a third-party tool themselves. SE can't really make possession of a specific file format against their ToS. They can't police what you have on or do with your computer, only what you do with their game.

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Originally Posted by DynnDiablos

I feel fflogs is being blown out of proportion. Don't want to have your logs visible? Hide them via lodestone. I did. Done and dusted. If someone doesn't want me in a party because they're hidden? No harm, no foul. Not my type of player or vibe to play with anyway.

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100% this.

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Originally Posted by Collin_Sky

Just had this in Chaotic AR clear party, wiping to enrage. I should be able to find out this information as this is actively griefing players. ...

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If you want to run ACT, upload logs, and have them analyzed... fantastic. You were in those encounters. You know who was there. If you have a "friend" who can look over your shoulder and furiously compile data into spreadsheets, more power to you.

But if you weren't there, or if you weren't the one willing to run the ToS-frowned-upon tool, then you have no reasonable expectation to information obtained via said tool. Ye olde random player ought to be log into the game and not have to worry that such ToS-frowned-upon tools are being used to reveal information that wouldn't otherwise be available. No different from Player Scope, or whatever it goes by these days.

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Originally Posted by DynnDiablos

I feel fflogs is being blown out of proportion. Don't want to have your logs visible? Hide them via lodestone.

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Hidden should be the default is the entire point. (Or, well, my entire point, anyway.)

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Originally Posted by AmiableApkallu

If you want to run ACT, upload logs, and have them analyzed... fantastic. You were in those encounters. You know who was there. If you have a "friend" who can look over your shoulder and furiously compile data into spreadsheets, more power to you.

But if you weren't there, or if you weren't the one willing to run the ToS-frowned-upon tool, then you have no reasonable expectation to information obtained via said tool. Ye olde random player ought to be log into the game and not have to worry that such ToS-frowned-upon tools are being used to reveal information that wouldn't otherwise be available. No different from Player Scope, or whatever it goes by these days.



Hidden should be the default is the entire point. (Or, well, my entire point, anyway.)

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The primary difference between PS and FFLogs is that the information obtained through PS doesn't serve any purpose other than making it easier to stalk someone or attempting to interfere with their gameplay while combat analytics are legitimately useful. There isn't any real reason that the buttons that someone is pressing during combat should be private, while I can see a lot of good arguments as to why someone's characters, activity history and retainers should be private.

If someone is worried about being "harassed" using FFLogs, then IDK - maybe they should spend 5 minutes learning how their job works so they aren't so catastrophically bad at the game that they consider the information to be harassment. I'm not sure why we're acting like this is something that people are powerless to change when they have a lot of options.

It's incredibly unlikely that anyone is even going to look at or mention their logs in the first place. On the off chance that they do, if the person doesn't care enough about their performance to spend a few minutes learning their job, why do they care about the logs that are being drawn to their attention? If they do care about the logs, why not just spend a few minutes learning their job? If they want to prevent this unlikely scenario from ever occurring, why not just hide their logs?

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Originally Posted by Dzian

Not at all. All it needs is to anonymize the data. Oh look this parse contains data regarding Blackmage Bob. He did 10k dps in encounter x. But isn't registered on fflogs and hasn't opted in. So now it says "Unregistered Blackmage" did 10k. The data collected is the exact same all that's changed is player names are hidden. Doesn't impact data integrity at all.

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this is true, but i was more referencing the person who said they did not wish to be scanned at all. i understand ppl want to be anonymous and not be able to be looked up. But i personally, (and i know most other raiders do) find hidden logs to be a bit suspicious. Either hiding the fact you arent pulling your weight, or bought clears

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If someone is worried about being "harassed" using FFLogs, then IDK - maybe they should spend 5 minutes learning how their job works so they aren't so catastrophically bad at the game that they consider the information to be harassment. I'm not sure why we're acting like this is something that people are powerless to change when they have a lot of options.

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This exactly this, people dont wanna learn the job or anything but are expecting other people to carry their asses and then cry if someone says something.

I wonder if anyone else is seeing the delicious irony that is that the people who defend the numbers site as a good thing are also usually the ones who clearly demonstrate its misusage.

"People who are scared of logs are clearly bad players who don't know how to play"
"People who hide logs are clear buyers and sandbaggers"
"I will kick players who don't meet my expectations as decreed by the numbers website"
"People who don't have more than 10 clears don't get to join my party"

I don't know how it can be any clearer how widespread the misuse of the website is getting. "Used only for self-improvement", haha, good joke.

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Originally Posted by Aravell

I wonder if anyone else is seeing the delicious irony that is that the people who defend the numbers site as a good thing are also usually the ones who clearly demonstrate its misusage.

"People who are scared of logs are clearly bad players who don't know how to play"
"People who hide logs are clear buyers and sandbaggers"
"I will kick players who don't meet my expectations as decreed by the numbers website"
"People who don't have more than 10 clears don't get to join my party"

I don't know how it can be any clearer how widespread the misuse of the website is getting. "Used only for self-improvement", haha, good joke.

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You'd be surprised how many people have their logs hidden but forget to private their achievements on Lodestone and have O4S/UCOB or O8S/UWU cleared for the first time on the same day, lol.

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Originally Posted by Aravell

I wonder if anyone else is seeing the delicious irony that is that the people who defend the numbers site as a good thing are also usually the ones who clearly demonstrate its misusage.

"People who are scared of logs are clearly bad players who don't know how to play"
"People who hide logs are clear buyers and sandbaggers"
"I will kick players who don't meet my expectations as decreed by the numbers website"
"People who don't have more than 10 clears don't get to join my party"

I don't know how it can be any clearer how widespread the misuse of the website is getting. "Used only for self-improvement", haha, good joke.

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Is it a misusage when you ask 5/10/20 clears in YOUR pf ? when you ask people to be on a certain prog point ? To know their rotation in savage/ultimates ?

And yes personally (everyone ?) I have a negative opinion on someone hiding their logs (if this person wants do to savages/ultimates)