Goodbye cleric stance.. you will be sorely missed

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Originally Posted by Zyphione

Very strange you spend many thread saying there is no point talking to Divine but are the only person to tie 2-3 reply toward him/her in row.

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Yep Divine and I go back and forth in our post responding to each other he has done the same to me ...there are others who feel the same way.. I know some that refuse to even bother reading his post

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Originally Posted by Zyphione

If you want Divine to yourself then better to just say

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I did say it I posted directly to him also

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Originally Posted by Zyphione

Divine did not make assumption yet of me since I am sure all my posts have been read.Why must all post be on such personal level? Many reveal weakness like they being attacked or disadvantaged by developer as if developer went out of his way to attack you by remove stance.

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Huh? Never felt like it was an attacked I just didn't agree it was removed all together

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Originally Posted by Zyphione

Label Divine as cannot accept opinion when in reality all Divine trying to do is explain and give reason why could have been remove and why stance could be seen as overpower. The only reply receive is that Divine force people to conform to personal view?

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Yep Divine CAN NOT accept others opinion when they don't agree with his.. he comes off very Elitist, condescending, he makes assumptions about things or people he shouldn't he also shouldn't try to force his views on
others.. people have the right to NOT agree

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Originally Posted by Zyphione

Can not even accept that Fyce say stance is meant for PvE?Must make unintelligent comment to remove all skill? Very nice to know such information of your personality.

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I NEVER made a comment to remove all skills! read further down to what I actually said... whose the 1 making unintelligent comments now?

The comment Fyce respond to

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Originally Posted by Nekomataempusin

That skill is obtained very early in CNJ, meaning you're supposed to use it.

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Originally Posted by Fyce

Yes, in PvE.

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Originally Posted by Hailie

If that's the case then every skill in any class/job is suppose to only be used in PVE and not PVP.

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Originally Posted by Fyce

Yes, but only if you assume that every PvE skill of every class is unbalanced and does not fit in a PvP environment... which is obviously not the case.

Cleric stance, however, was unbalanced in PvP.

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When Fyce made his point I understood so I didn't bother responding

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Originally Posted by Zyphione

I think many take producer for an idiot? I am sure he already consider modifying stance instead of remove, but why did he remove instead of modify? If such question escape you then maybe you have other problem to consider.

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Just because hes the producer who makes these types of decisions to modify or make changes doesn't mean I have to like it or agree with it.

Have a nice day.

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Originally Posted by sammy150105

So we're just supposed to stand around and spam cure......sounds great!! T_T

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i know! doesn't it sound exciting!!! makes me wanna totally roll dat class!!!

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Originally Posted by Hailie

Yep Divine and I go back and forth in our post responding to each other he has done the same to me ...there are others who feel the same way.. I know some that refuse to even bother reading his post

I did say it I posted directly to him also

Huh? Never felt like it was an attacked I just didn't agree it was removed all together

Yep Divine CAN NOT accept others opinion when they don't agree with his.. he comes off very Elitist, condescending, he makes assumptions about things or people he shouldn't he also shouldn't try to force his views on
others.. people have the right to NOT agree

When Fyce made his point I understood so I didn't bother responding

Just because hes the producer who makes these types of decisions to modify or make changes doesn't mean I have to like it or agree with it.

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Please allow me to use this pic to express my current feeling.:cool:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-VaogUfvcBI...94707730_n.jpg

Which point you dont get it? I accept an arguemnt with solid reference, not something that can be category into the following fives:

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1. Devs listen to carebears
2. Healer haters
3. You dont have an arguement because you havent try healer
4. You are all whinners
5. Learn to play.

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I have provided videos and dps chart to breakdown Scholar's performance to support my arugments. Do I see any solid reference ever given except repeating 5 points list above?

Elitism? Pretty sure I am not the one who are calling people carebear or tell people to learn to play. I am sharing information to help players getting better. If you failed to see that or choose to ignore due to your own little grudge. Your problem, your lost.

Gor answered the question. I think he agreed that Cleric Stance need a nerf instead of being removed. What about you? Why do you need 100% functional Cleric Stance as a healer if you have no intention to playing it as a DPS role? You choose to remain silent when being asked at that thread before 2.35. How about provide a reason why?

You really dont like the the way of Cleric Stance being removed. Why dont you take an action by participating in the next open letter and raise your concern? Please dont dodge this one, give a straight answer, are you going to or you are not. (On second thought, you probably will try to dodge this one again, so nvm)

Let's face it. Yoship doesnt read English, he relies on English community mamanger to pass the information. If you have been providing positive feedbacks instead of repeating those 5 points, the community manager would do something by now. Your next in line option is produce open letter only, try to take an action and do something instead for a change (Audience is not you only, this paragraph is for all who disagree with Cleric Stance change).

why is this thread still going? we're just talkin about the same ish over and over again

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Originally Posted by Gor

why is this thread still going? we're just talkin about the same ish over and over again

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I dont know, good question? For 5 stages of grief, I thought people would be at stage of Acceptance by now.

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Originally Posted by Divinemight

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sigh... I have already answered those questions in other post I am not going to repeat them again so you can feel better about yourself...

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Originally Posted by Divinemight

as far as this is goes 1. Devs listen to carebears
2. Healer haters
3. You dont have an arguement because you havent try healer
4. You are all whinners
5. Learn to play.

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the 1-5 has been said to you from other people..not from me

I think its quite horrible that they took cleric stance away but I can still do my fair share of dps without cleric stance aswell as healing my party when i need to. When soloing, my fairy gives me the upper hand so if your not a whm my super duper awesome sch can still woop up on your little scrawny dps because even though they took half my dps ability away I still have an extra healer in my pocket so while you get hp drain i get hp given to me. In my opinion this was a bad call by SE, when I am with my team and we are holding an area I will heal my team to win the fight , sometimes there are too many healers on both teams and someone has to dps or we just pvp for like 10 minutes with no end in site ( which is awesome! but someone needs to win). Also when i am on the team to take the middle area (team b usually) I use my dps ablity more then my healing because many times the party is spread out too far for me to even heal everyone. Poor decision from SE!

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Originally Posted by Hailie

Yep Divine and I go back and forth in our post responding to each other he has done the same to me ...there are others who feel the same way.. I know some that refuse to even bother reading his post

I did say it I posted directly to him also

Huh? Never felt like it was an attacked I just didn't agree it was removed all together

Yep Divine CAN NOT accept others opinion when they don't agree with his.. he comes off very Elitist, condescending, he makes assumptions about things or people he shouldn't he also shouldn't try to force his views on
others.. people have the right to NOT agree

I NEVER made a comment to remove all skills! read further down to what I actually said... whose the 1 making unintelligent comments now?

The comment Fyce respond to

When Fyce made his point I understood so I didn't bother responding

Just because hes the producer who makes these types of decisions to modify or make changes doesn't mean I have to like it or agree with it.

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I was sure I was only one who had doubt about reading English well? But after see this my doubt removed. It seem real problem is you misunderstand or do not clarify before typing post.

I explain to you so you see clearer, please excuse if rude.

You miss all point I make and even do not understand my context but you reply still? Maybe next time better to clarify before make such way to reply.

I do not say you feel attacked? I was sure mention that "many feel this way" but do not know why you single self out? Is because I quote you at start of post?
This what I mean by you do not understand context of post. If you not feeling attack then do not need to say "i do not feel attack", if you say such thing then maybe you really feel that way. :rolleyes:

Everyone disagree with each other but is not normal disagreement. Is disagree with sake to argue until people set in your way. Divine giving example and you give hypotheticals? That is all post I see from you is you draw situation but do not give any way to confirm.
No data.
Is too easy to for example say "MRD critical me 4000HP!" but no real proof of such thing make it hard to see your comment as anything beside repetitive complaining. Most of your comment in many thread is illustrate situation, maybe this is why Divine and you no agreement on anything?

Would not be such blaring issue if you did not pick more than 1 thread to fight with him/her.

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Originally Posted by Hailie

If that's the case then every skill in any class/job is suppose to only be used in PVE and not PVP.

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This is call implied reasoning. Facet of logical consequence? Is your way of say "if thats case that all skill like stance then every skill also suppose to only be use in pve and not pvp" ?
Am I right to say this?
But reason I say is unintelligent is because stance can not be compared to regular skill. If you read my reply instead of cherrypick, you would see my reasoning, where and why. You ask me who is make the unintelligent comment now? Still you, because you never read past reply fully or you fail when understand what I reference. :p

If you really understand stance can not be compare then you would not have made such statement in latest reply to me.

You say understand Fyce post so never reply to him?
I use his same logic in my previous post but you still reply to me about it? In reality you never truly understand then. If not, would not have make such mistake.

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Originally Posted by Fyce

Yes, but only if you assume that every PvE skill of every class is unbalanced and does not fit in a PvP environment... which is obviously not the case.

Cleric stance, however, was unbalanced in PvP.

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Originally Posted by Zyphione

Because PVP not initially inside of game and was add later, stance have long been proven after to be overpower just by gearwork of skill and how it twist character stat value to turn healer into DPS class without burst factor outside of Ruin II spam. It was not skill meant for PVP and more for leveling or PVE, therefore was remove. Gearwork of skill not meant to be modify, therefore was not modify.

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If you understand as you say you do, you would not have reply to this at all.

This is child's game you playing? Not reading people reply and trying to think you understand before clarify anything? Would not be better for you ask me "why you say is unintelligent?" first before shoot snide remark?
Your wheel turning backwards. :rolleyes:

You do not watch live letter broadcast? Producer understand PVP people unhappiness but he ask us to give him time to work on thing. Seem you very impatient? Maybe if understand thing better then will not feel this way? I do not know, but behavior of constantly say "developer this" and "developer that" even after having him say these word, betray your own word.
There is limit to how far voice opinion will go before turn into complain or tantrum.

Yes, you do not need to agree.
You do not need to like.
But repeating behavior in more than this thread toward Divine is very silly. Your reply have always been same with no new information and more than 1 thread of such thing.

I think is larger problem any person can be so repetitive and rude in more than 1 thread and try to pass off as acceptable behavior by saying you do not have to like decisions made by developers of the game? Excessive and repetitive complaining look like suffering victimization from change. :rolleyes:

Please sort out thoughts if plan to quote reply to me, it would be very tiring if I have to breakdown thing you do not understand specially for you. Do not know what was so hard to understand without this post to clarify for you but I am not bother.
I hope explanation is clear enough however and maybe in future you can post something too that contribute instead of complain?

Thank you for well wishes! :o

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Originally Posted by Gor

why is this thread still going? we're just talkin about the same ish over and over again

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http://i60.tinypic.com/16abp6d.png

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Originally Posted by Zyphione

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YES! I HAD cherry pick thru your posting! because I have a hard time understanding what you are saying NO OFFENSE but its because of your Broken English typing...
You keep posting all these looongg drawn out Essay's and Paragraphs its hard to keep up and hard to understand what your saying so I had to Sift thru that garbage and reply to what I thought you were trying to say.

Other then that I refuse to TRY to read anymore of your essays, paragraphs or w/e you want to call it. If i wanted to read a novel I'd go and get an Alice walker book... just saying...

Its not just a misunderstanding coming from me its coming from you as well

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Originally Posted by Zyphione

I was sure I was only one who had doubt about reading English well? But after see this my doubt removed. It seem real problem is you misunderstand or do not clarify before typing post.

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I hope this pic would resolve your doubt:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_kM5R4zWpsB...ve+hearing.bmp

For detail information, please click URL below:

http://www.wisegeek.org/what-is-selective-hearing.htm

Not everyone can be reasoning. Lack of progressive and constructive argument is probably why community manager still not reacting at this point. If they want to be tapped in the grief, let them be. I have suggested them an option of taking this to the producer open letter, rest is up to them.