Wow, Wuk Lamat is really single-handedly ruining the DT story...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SableHahma

I mean, that's not at all what I was saying, but okay. I despise the way the Alexandrian situation was solved after the story ended. However, as much as I don't like it because it basically ends with Alexandria being turned into a protectorate of Tural I accept it because it makes sense to a degree. Fantasy is great, but I like it when I see something play out in a story and I could go, yeah I could see this happening in real life.

I think there are some very key things to remember. Wuk Lamat didn't just install some child. Zoraal Ja passed all of the codes needed to operate Everkeep or whatever onto Galool Ja. Galool Ja is also the only child of Alexandria's king, and thus as a kingdom is a natural choice for Alexandria's leader. It is super frustrating that he's just a child and not really fit to lead right now, but it does make sense. The other thing is that Wuk Lamat, as his aunt, and as the leader the winning nation essentially has her hand wrapped around Alexandria's throat. They are not in a position to argue terms with her.

My main issue with that whole scene is how it's a very serious matter glossed over with sunshine and puppy dogs, but what actually takes place is logical. It's one of the things that gives me pop for the patch story though. We might see some pushback from the Alexandrians, and Wuk Lamat might finally learn that you're can't rule solely from being kind and understanding.

---

I mean yeah, my original post wasn't that it didn't make sense, it's that the actual actions and consequences were running directly counter to the idealistic themes presented in the story.

It is not soberly acknowledging that Wuk Lamat has had to make an actual tough policy decision as leader that doesn't paint her as a unanimously good person, and is now assuming a post where difficult decisions must be made that not everyone can happy with.

Is this truly what she dreamed of? Is this what she wants? Is she having any doubts? Is the reality of politics that there is no 'Good' and 'Bad', but a large gray area of personal truths like Sphene's strong will to keep her people going?

It doesn't matter, because the story is bending over backwards to paint everything she does as the morally and ethically correct course of action so that she doesn't have to face these icky hurdles of character growth and intrigue. Hiroi has no idea what he's done, so I have no faith he knows what he's doing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Xieldras

What frustrates me the most about this situation is that we've spent one specific expansion fighting and denoucing Garlemald for doing exactly that with its conquered provinces, yet when the same thing happens with the perfect Turali society acting as a regent to a child ruler it is okay? There is none of the serious tone that such situation should warrant, instead it comes off as a good outcome because now the Alexandrians will start living the "correct way" (being quite tone deaf to the initial first zones of the Rites).

As for Gulool Ja, well he's merely an impressionable child that will grow to be a puppet ruler. And we put him there. Will the writing call us out, as we were not supposed to interact with the political affairs of others anymore?

I want 7.1+ to tackle these important topics (especially the one where you cannot just rule by kindness and understanding), but I don't think I have the faith required for that. We will have to see in the future.

---

Technically Sphene put him there. She made his father king, and then he made sure the authority passed to his son. Sure, they could get angry about that and I wouldn't blame them, but saying we put him there is not true.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Xieldras

...I want 7.1+ to tackle these important topics (especially the one where you cannot just rule by kindness and understanding), but I don't think I have the faith required for that. We will have to see in the future.

---

Unfortunately they most likely won't given how the entire Mainstory MSQ pushed Wuk Lamat from beginning to end. Even if they did try to "challenge" her mindset with the patches again like they "tried" to do with the MSQ once in awhile, it would just result in the "Perfect" outcome in favor of Wuk Lamat as it would no doubt end with her mindset staying the exact same, but once again having everyone around her accept her stance as the only "correct" one they need to go by and that'll lead to greater peace and happiness for everyone.

Endwalker's story was just "The Power Of Friendship Overcomes Anything And Everything" to beat a sad birb girl. Zero's story was her learning that "The Power Of Friendship Overcomes Anything And Everything" to overcome Zeromus, embrace the light, and befriend Golbez. Now here Wuk Lamat's story in Dawntrail is, yet again, "The Power Of Friendship Overcomes Anything And Everything" as her friends and acquaintances help her through her entire journey, and where her friendship with Sphene is so strong that she somehow reverses a factory reset to bring her memories back so WE can help HER stop Sphene for good.

Cannot wait for the 4TH straight MSQ story in a row where the entire moral is once again just "The Power Of Friendship Overcomes Anything And Everything" but this time Sphene or Gulool Ja learns it!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Papayatar

What would Garlemald have to offer though? They just ended a civil war and also was one of the areas that experienced the Final Days via blasphemies. And Right now they’re in a perpetual state of rebuilding, and what they offered to Radz-at-Han wasn’t military or troops either. Plus I doubt they’d want to help with some other nations conflict, they might have accepted our help but they’re still wary on that.

---

That was the plot of the patches for EW. Figuring out what they had to offer, and then they entered a trade agreement with Radz. Even if they just had a few standard airships and nothing major like one of their battleships it still would have been cool to see.

Hell, have it be both Radz and Garlemald if they didn't think it was realistic having a whole float of Garlean ships. But it just would have been poetic having our former arch enemies helping in a new era.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CamuiKushi

That was the plot of the patches for EW. Figuring out what they had to offer, and then they entered a trade agreement with Radz. Even if they just had a few standard airships and nothing major like one of their battleships it still would have been cool to see.

Hell, have it be both Radz and Garlemald if they didn't think it was realistic having a whole float of Garlean ships. But it just would have been poetic having our former arch enemies helping in a new era.

---

Garlemald just isn’t in a position to help with the fighting is all I’m saying.

But, if they had to be shoehorned in then a similar trade agreement with Tural might have worked, but I don’t think they could do much? Arnt they offering Radz cereleum and tech stuff or w/e? So at best they’d be future patch help, like with the train?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Papayatar

Garlemald just isn’t in a position to help with the fighting is all I’m saying.

But, if they had to be shoehorned in then a similar trade agreement with Tural might have worked, but I don’t think they could do much? Arnt they offering Radz cereleum and tech stuff or w/e? So at best they’d be future patch help, like with the train?

---

A trade deal between Tural and Garlemald will make far less sense than the one between Radz and Garlemald.

The only things or rather, the main thing Garlemald has to offer is cereleum, which is something Radz doesn't have.

Tural has cereleum in abundant at their Texas looks alike province.


I don't see any reason for Garlemald to get involved with Tural, not yet anyway. There are plenty of potential interaction with the Alliance nations. If anything, the should keep it that way to allow room for the narrative to jump around and diverse from Tural once a while. We already see the disastrous effect when the narrative try to tie and connect literally everything to a single focal point (Wuk Lamak). I certainly wouldn't want Tural become the "nation version of Wuk Lamak" for the next two years, that would be terrifying.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by hydralus

Technically Sphene put him there. She made his father king, and then he made sure the authority passed to his son. Sure, they could get angry about that and I wouldn't blame them, but saying we put him there is not true.

---

Gulool Ja did not want to be king and wanted to immediately relinquish the power, but he was told to hold onto it by Wuk Lamat BECAUSE it gives him sole control of the Alexandrian military.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Raven2014

A trade deal between Tural and Garlemald will make far less sense than the one between Radz and Garlemald.

The only things or rather, the main thing Garlemald has to offer is cereleum, which is something Radz doesn't have.

Tural has cereleum in abundant at their Texas looks alike province.


I don't see any reason for Garlemald to get involved with Tural, not yet anyway. There are plenty of potential interaction with the Alliance nations. If anything, the should keep it that way to allow room for the narrative to jump around and diverse from Tural once a while. We already see the disastrous effect when the narrative try to tie and connect literally everything to a single focal point (Wuk Lamak). I certainly wouldn't want Tural become the "nation version of Wuk Lamak" for the next two years, that would be terrifying.

---

Honestly I agree with you. I just picked the one thing they had in common as a trade option to try to find something worth trading to Tural, cuz they are just not really in any state to trade anything else. Plus what does Tural have that would be worth it to Garlemald? I don’t Garlemald needs rainbow bananas, tacos, and good vibes.

Also that would be such a bummer to try to tie everything to Tural. Not just for this expansion but then the domino effect it would have on future expansions. It’d have the potential to be the “pray return to the waking sands”.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Raven2014

A trade deal between Tural and Garlemald will make far less sense than the one between Radz and Garlemald.

The only things or rather, the main thing Garlemald has to offer is cereleum, which is something Radz doesn't have.

Tural has cereleum in abundant at their Texas looks alike province.


I don't see any reason for Garlemald to get involved with Tural, not yet anyway. There are plenty of potential interaction with the Alliance nations. If anything, the should keep it that way to allow room for the narrative to jump around and diverse from Tural once a while. We already see the disastrous effect when the narrative try to tie and connect literally everything to a single focal point (Wuk Lamak). I certainly wouldn't want Tural become the "nation version of Wuk Lamak" for the next two years, that would be terrifying.

---

The subplot about reactivating he Garlean Tower to the moon was already bad enough and treated just in an incredibly ham-fisted way, I'd absolutely HATE to see Garlemald involved in ANY kind of politics, let alone bailing out Tural. On multiple levels it wouldn't make sense. At best it's a ra-ra converted enemies to allies at lightning speed, and at worst it is the re-traumatizing of literal nations by having their invaders fly unabated through previously conquered lands and Alliance owned lands.

The fall of Garlemald wasn't that long ago as per the timeline of events from Endwalker to Dawntrail. They might have a FRESH trade agreement with Radz-at-Han but they are absolutely DECIMATED and still receiving copious amounts of aid from other nations. They're still living in the train stations under their husk of a city and have only just recently started forming some semblance of a government.

From a political stand point and, geographically speaking, Garlemald is still blocked by both Alliances to the East and West. Other then the mentioned Ceruleum, Garlemald has nothing to offer Tural other than its technological advancements which...Sharlayan has already provided in the form of Koana's acquisitions of knowledge to construct transit and aetheryte crystals. Even if Tural wanted these things from Garlemald, transportation would have to be sanctioned by either the East or Western Alliances depending on the trade route and I guarantee you, in a well build world, there would be a lot of red tape and political manoeuvring that would need to occur over potentially YEARS to even consider sending machinery that could be modified into weaponry from a former, imperialist, expansionist minded empire.

And this is just a breakdown on to elaborate on what you have already pointed out.

The solution 9 resolution makes sense from the players perspective sure but the common folk who actually live there are given none of this context and suddenly cheer the decision on anyway and are shown visiting tullyolyal and being good little subjects of our dawnservant of the seventh dawn.

For a story that has been hyperfixated on showing the opinions and politics of the normal citizens who make their states up, the solution 9 stuff seems wildly out of place.

Also on that note, solution 9 still has the super technology that decimated Alexandria and is seemingly open and known about based on the final cutscene. I refuse to believe these people arent getting plundered or starting or forming their own allagan empire within a few months.