Black Mage Sanctuary - A Guide to DPS

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Originally Posted by Thela

As far as i know F2 F2 Flare Flare is a pps gain at 4+ targets.

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4 targets.
Just Flare: 241,4
F2 Flare: 233,8

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Originally Posted by jamvng

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It's bothersome, yes. But this is much like getting a bad manatick when going 4.0 and not getting B4 refunded.
You can learn to somewhat mitigate this by committing the tick timings to memory, but every once in a while I mess it up and just feel bad about myself.

You're right about the TC proc situation. Proc management can (sorta) force you into such a situation.
I'm simplifying the analysis here and will release a new thread when the patch hits.
If you want to be rigorous, there's other things to consider. Say I just got a Balance as I'm mid UI cycle and will have it for 35ish seconds when I hit AF- I'm going to switch to the 4.0 rotation to get 6x Fire IV and Foul buffed by the balance.

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Originally Posted by Ferrasper

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I need to see how much we gain. But between that and Foul costing 0 mp, we may end up with a very strong, 5xFire IV 3.X rotation that would trump the 4.0 one.
(Incidentally, you asked me in some other thread about how I like SMN visually- I actually really like Ruin 3's animations, and the laser-from-the-sky Deathflare. Adding to the fact that we have Bahamut, I'm quite content with it visually. I've always hated the egis, but I can just use a Carby now too, so x) ).

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Originally Posted by Galvuu

It's bothersome, yes. But this is much like getting a bad manatick when going 4.0 and not getting B4 refunded.

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I'm hoping they actually fix the mana tick situation fully in 4.05 so that we're always able to do 6xF4 if we want to without worrying about mana tick. 0 mana Foul fixes the 120MP situation also for 3.x rotation.

Let me summarize what I'm getting so far from this discussion: 4.0 rotation has more PPS if you do not include Foul (as the # of Fouls never changes in a battle). However, you want to use Foul in UI and not AF, which won't be possible at one point if you just use 4.0 rotation. In addition, if you can't cast 6xF4 after using B4, it is also a loss in PPS as you make it not worth using B4 anymore if you can't cast all 6 F4s. As such, you use 3.0 rotation insteadf of 4.0 in those 2 above case scenarios. And then we have the more niche scenarios like we discussed with procs or buffs. Am I right on that so far?

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Originally Posted by jamvng

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Yes, that seems more or less to be it.
Ofc without patch notes, we can't be sure. If they alter potencies or have other changes (or even depending on how much MP we get), this can all change.
If the base MP is raised by like, 1000, the the 3.X rotation can now include 5xF4s, and will be better regardless of the scenario (and even have the perfect duration to have Foul up every UI, with Sharpcast and Triple offsetting each other's influence on rotation length and conveniently sharing a cd).

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Originally Posted by Galvuu

If the base MP is raised by like, 1000, the the 3.X rotation can now include 5xF4s, and will be better regardless of the scenario (and even have the perfect duration to have Foul up every UI, with Sharpcast and Triple offsetting each other's influence on rotation length and conveniently sharing a cd).

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If they let that 5xF4 be possible w/o Blizz 4... That would just be bad oversight and I would question how much they know about the BLM rotations...

I am disappointed in the omega gear for boots and gloves. Have to meld 6 materia 6 now just to get somewhere close where I was before with the Spell speed. /sigh

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Originally Posted by jamvng

If they let that 5xF4 be possible w/o Blizz 4... That would just be bad oversight and I would question how much they know about the BLM rotations...

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But that's already possible now? F4->F4->F1->F4->F4->F4->B3 is perfectly possible already while still having time to weave in procs.

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Originally Posted by Thela

But that's already possible now? F4->F4->F1->F4->F4->F4->B3 is perfectly possible already while still having time to weave in procs.

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Kind of. The problem with it now is that after F4 F4 F1 F4 F4 you have exactly 2400 mana left. You could use F4 and transpose, but that would be a dps loss because of how the mana server ticks are. It is better if that happens to just B3.

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Originally Posted by Thela

But that's already possible now? F4->F4->F1->F4->F4->F4->B3 is perfectly possible already while still having time to weave in procs.

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You need to Tranpose. You'll end up at exactly 2400 mana before the 5th Fire IV.
Transposing has a slew of issues- if you Foul > Thunder 3 > Fire 3, you may get screwed out of the last mana tick which will be a disaster.
If you B4 there, you may still get screwed out of the mana tick (not as disastrous as the previous case)- plus, doing this with a slow F3 is incredibly tight, and any movement will make you force to Tranpose again (and then your AF cycle is thrown into complete disarray) or lose UI and Enochian.
All of these cases are horrid pps losses. At absolute best, it all aligns perfectly and even then you only get like 1 pps for your trouble. Absolutely not worth the risk.

Hi, I apologize if this was already mentioned somewhere but did not want to make a thread about this. I wanted to know, what are your thoughts on the upcoming changes? These changes feel like band-aid changes that does not really address everything. Only addressing what they think and feel is appropriate, so I am starting to question if SE understands what is wrong with BLM. Do you think we'll be okay with these changes coming?