Bard - they broke my job

I feel you mate, but the sad truth is bards are balanced with raids in mind. if I wasn't a raider I probably wouldn't play bard ( or this game tbh...)

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Originally Posted by Sessurea

If bard is still broken it's only due to clutter and qol changes that may or may not come, but it's dps is perfect now.

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BLM wanting a way to refresh Enochian or extend its timer was a QoL topic. They could still perform to their best, just what changes were applied made it less stressful. The fact that they'd lost their cast the moment Enochian dropped was a serious issue, though.

I'd not consider DPS loss from Bloodletters stacking on each other a QoL issue, that's a straight issue with functionality that prevents you from maximizing your damage. Same goes for the issues with Straighter Shot and to an extent Repelling Shot. SS+ you have to sacrifice either using EA when it's up to save downtime after using the fast cast, or risk doubling down on SS+ so as to be able to use it when EA is off cooldown. Both options require something to be withheld when there is no reason. Repelling Shot nearly isn't as breaking, but the fact that you need to give it a split second before doing anything less risking an interrupt does hinder flow.

These are issues that are literally creating a loss in DPS, and people can say that it's not a big deal but as a BRD everything you do needs to count. Missing even just a SS+ or BL is 800-1200 dmg that will never add to your parse.

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Originally Posted by Lewtskie

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It also feels like garbage to play.

Yeah BRD's should shine in a 2:30 fight, they still ahve great burst + Flaming Arrow hitting all the adds.

so yeah we got the burst dmg ok but then what?
i would rly like to see something thats further into a fight something like a 8-10min a3
savage mode cause. thats were u see all the weaknesses of the other classes as well not only ours but i think its to early to ask for that.

Hey guys. The bard on our static is having hard times trying to find the new Bard Stats weights. Can someone tell me or share a link to a good updated guide!? Thanks :)

question here would be are the new equations for stats out yet then he can do the maths himself ^^

Dunno how you guys really handle it. On Dragoon thread there are some really nice ppl who usually do all the math, so the Stats weights are there on the OP post of "How to DPS".

Though the Bard community was pretty united too.

crit>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>det>sksp

Mind you, the stats on both our 210 bows do leave me wondering which is better.

one has tons of det, low sksp. Other has tons of sksp, and low crit. wat2do o?

Something I wonder as a bard is: Should we always take a crit item over a non crit item, regardless of it's weight due to crits relationship with bard? ( if such an item even exists ...)

Dervi help us ><

Is Dervy playing around with bard Stats too?

well i favor skill speed after u reached a certain crit point cause even if crit now also give you more crit dmg its always good to get ur shots out faster or at all thx to our casttime.

also the determination nerf doesnt affect us very hard but once u turn off ur WM it might be a problem wich is the reason i dont focus too much on that.

so its pretty much a good mix off all 3 stats for me and that works pretty good actually.

I was looking for something like we have on Drg topic. Dervy and the other found a pretty accurate Weight, like 0.13xx for det and 0.16xx for crit. This way, we can not only say wich is better, but maximaze the overall gear gain.

Guess I'll just ask there, ty for your time :)

well this is not exactly the how to play bard thread its more like stuff works like it does and we hate it or well some dont hate it for whatever reason thread. ^^

rly i dont know how you can not hate it right now but hey everyone has an opinion. :)

I haven't tested, but since now we have cast times and no auto attack, plus SkS affects DoTs, I'd say Crit>SkS>Det.

oh did they finally fix that? it was bugged at the start someone posted a video for this around page 40 or so. at that time SkS didnt work at all for the dots. has anyone tested it since then?

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Originally Posted by yamochan

oh did they finally fix that? it was bugged at the start someone posted a video for this around page 40 or so. at that time SkS didnt work at all for the dots. has anyone tested it since then?

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It's not that it's bugged, there's a formula out that's been very well tested thanks to Dervy. (1+(skillspeed-354)*0.000138)
The video you're talking about is Krietor's, he puts on accessories to get up to about 450 skillspeed. If you use this formula and punch in that number it's 97*.000138 = .013386 is the dot damage multiplier. You take this and multiply by how much damage your dot is doing, Krietor's was doing around 200, 200 * .013386 = 2.6.
It's not that SkS was ever bugged, more that the results from stacking skillspeed are so small that you'd need huge amounts of it or huge damage on dots to notice a difference.

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Originally Posted by Sessurea

crit>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>det>sksp

Mind you, the stats on both our 210 bows do leave me wondering which is better.

one has tons of det, low sksp. Other has tons of sksp, and low crit. wat2do o?

Something I wonder as a bard is: Should we always take a crit item over a non crit item, regardless of it's weight due to crits relationship with bard? ( if such an item even exists ...)

Dervi help us ><

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I've actually wondered about this. They nerfed the values of det on auto attacks, which is moot in WM anyway, however, the amounts of det popping up on gear now is like, double or more from what we had before. I mean, people are actually hitting the 700 mark on det. Assuming det was only changed on Auto attack, and nothing else, I'm kind of inclined to assume det is king. I dunno. Thoughts?

My only gripe is how WEAK and useless sidewinder is. 60 second cooldown for an ability that only gets decent potentcy from having both dots up, and still is out damaged by a single empyreal arrow, or all the bloodletters you can use in its cooldown window. its a depressingly weak ability. why did they nerf it?

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Originally Posted by Bman10119

My only gripe is how WEAK and useless sidewinder is. 60 second cooldown for an ability that only gets decent potentcy from having both dots up, and still is out damaged by a single empyreal arrow, or all the bloodletters you can use in its cooldown window. its a depressingly weak ability. why did they nerf it?

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Wanderer's Minuet +30% damage buff more or less makes the potency decrease hardly noticeable. After the boost is factored in, Sidewinder is about 130 potency vanilla, about 233 with one DoT up, and roughly 333 with both up.

Sidewinder is best used for burst moment no ?

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Originally Posted by Noira

Sidewinder is best used for burst moment no ?

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yes use itz in burst phase then on cd but ofc only with both buffs up

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Originally Posted by Warlyx

im enjoying it , now refreshing dots is 1 skill 60 tp , thats awesome , E. arrow hits hard , and sidewinder hits even harder , but yeah having to move hurts now , but thats the price we pay for being able to dps harder....SE needs to boost Heavy shot a bit and now Straight shot proc are rare ....since we dont spam heavy shot like mad.... so we see less procs....and ugh casting heavy shot > casting straight shot > straight proc!!!! -_-

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I don't remember the number off the top of my head, but I have a decently high crit rate. I mixed and matched my right side between Asuran and Gordian to keep my accuracy up for Alexander Savage runs. I get the Straighter Shot a ton, and I've actually gotten a BL double-tap between Heavy Shots. The rotation is a bit more difficult as you can only really reasonably do 1 oGCD between skills now, but I've found pairing those with the buffs (which have much shorter animations) to be usable.

The only thing I don't like about the current bard is what someone stated earlier. It seems you have a million buffs/bloodletter popping at the same time and you have to choose the lesser of two evils; Basically pick the best option at the time, which can be confusing because chances are they are all pretty good options. Example: You lose some dps if you skip bloodletter to say, pop another damage cooldown to renew your dots at a higher damage potential, and while this is happening another bloodletter procs. So it's almost like they are dangling candy in front of us, only to snatch it away.

On a side note, Dervy has said he is working on the stat weights: https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...t_weights_yet/

So, currently i184 BRD and parsing anywhere from 700-900, sometimes 1k ish depending on the fight, in A1-A4 PUGs. Usually I am among the top dps, oddly, especially over other BRDS (100-200+ more dps). However, I do notice when there's a good NIN MNK DRG SMN etc. their dps can be also be 200 dps+ more than mine. SO I was wondering, since BRD's have the unique ability to play songs, like Foe Requiem to boost mage DMG that drains MP (can't be used with other songs), but we don't always use it since sometimes there isn't a SMN or BLM in the group. Well, why not have a song that boosts our own damage further that drains MP? Maybe either another 5-10% increase DMG, increase in crit rate or skill speed (to boost our DoTs). Otherwise, we kinda sit at full MP. I think this may boost our dmg to be more competitive, especially on single target fights.Thoughts?

1257 on Savage Faust, around 950 on savage oppressor (at 4% enrage so I think it was 8:30?).
Not my parses, static member told me.

I am usually around 100 dps behind SMN and 50 DPS behind BLM (on oppressor, the DPS difference is higher on Faust), on par or a bit better than NIN. HQ pipira pira and NQ mega-pots of DEX. iLvL 188

Even when I was against WM and I still hate it, I must admit that from my experience BRD's DPS seems to be fine. For the utility we have I think the DPS difference is acceptable sacrifice. But it is funny that SMN outdpses BLM while SMN has higher mobility than BRD.

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Originally Posted by kumo21

So, currently i184 BRD and parsing anywhere from 700-900, sometimes 1k ish depending on the fight, in A1-A4 PUGs. Usually I am among the top dps, oddly, especially over other BRDS (100-200+ more dps). However, I do notice when there's a good NIN MNK DRG SMN etc. their dps can be also be 200 dps+ more than mine. SO I was wondering, since BRD's have the unique ability to play songs, like Foe Requiem to boost mage DMG that drains MP (can't be used with other songs), but we don't always use it since sometimes there isn't a SMN or BLM in the group. Well, why not have a song that boosts our own damage further that drains MP? Maybe either another 5-10% increase DMG, increase in crit rate or skill speed (to boost our DoTs). Otherwise, we kinda sit at full MP. I think this may boost our dmg to be more competitive, especially on single target fights.Thoughts?

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Honestly I thought that we would get something like this in HW for party. It is funny that we got some useless WP instead..

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Originally Posted by StrejdaTom

1257 on Savage Faust, around 950 on savage oppressor (at 4% enrage so I think it was 8:30?).
Not my parses, static member told me.

I am usually around 100 dps behind SMN and 50 DPS behind BLM (on oppressor, the DPS difference is higher on Faust), on par or a bit better than NIN. HQ pipira pira and NQ mega-pots of DEX. iLvL 188

Even when I was against WM and I still hate it, I must admit that from my experience BRD's DPS seems to be fine. For the utility we have I think the DPS difference is acceptable sacrifice. But it is funny that SMN outdpses BLM while SMN has higher mobility than BRD.



Honestly I thought that we would get something like this in HW for party. It is funny that we got some useless WP instead..

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Or maybe even a song that reduces piercing resistance?

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Originally Posted by kumo21

Or maybe even a song that reduces piercing resistance?

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That is a good idea, and I've felt for a while that Bards need some type of physical damage increase song. There are alot of instances where you never see a caster and Mages Ballad is never needed, so all of our songs are pretty much useless then. Although a physical damage increase would be pretty OP since it will effect tanks and all of the dps if they are all physical.

Well don't hold your breath on the physical damage increase as MCH has that with hypercharge and rook turret.

They won't give you a piercing buff song due to DRG providing that.

What I would like is defense increase song even if it means being on a 90 mins or so cooldown.

I just unlocked it and I hate it with passion right now. It's so tacky and the sound it makes sounds like two stray cats humping. Not happy that it was a complete turn around of a class I enjoyed for so long. Also, it sucks weaving in cooldowns that I was use to doing in between shots.

Leveling White Mage until I get bored then just moving on to something else I'm afraid. Bard will never be the same because SE is stubborn as hell.

How do you know what two stray cats humping sounds like ?

Yeah that sound is just no <.< Sounds like I'm cooking bacon.

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Originally Posted by Noira

Well don't hold your breath on the physical damage increase as MCH has that with hypercharge and rook turret.

They won't give you a piercing buff song due to DRG providing that.

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2 jobs provide slashing debuff , NIN got it because in what happens when there is no WAR in party?

but what happens when there is no DRG? ....

SE answer : sucks to be you? :P

Pretty much atm lol.

Ranger is that way ---->
The problem with BRD is too many ppl rolled ARC to be Legolas. All of the complaints about BRD have been rooted in Legolas syndrome since 1.0. If SE made a ranger job we wouldnt be hearing so much whine about the same ole deepz topic.

Brd is about utility and damage support. Its role is auxiliary rather than primary. A great bard makes a raid buttery smooth.

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Originally Posted by Bman10119

My only gripe is how WEAK and useless sidewinder is. 60 second cooldown for an ability that only gets decent potentcy from having both dots up, and still is out damaged by a single empyreal arrow, or all the bloodletters you can use in its cooldown window. its a depressingly weak ability. why did they nerf it?

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To keep us from playing pre-52 Bard. They wanted a clear line stating that Wander's minuet is what you're supposed to use and if you don't want to use it then you're bad and you should feel bad.

Which is why I no longer play bard and am currently looking for a new class to play. So far...nothing has interested me. Might wait till the next expansion and see if they come out with something that isn't Bow/Gun mage.

I have this one friend who believes that applying DoTs on more than 2 targets and using iron jaws on them all is the best way to go cause then his OGCDs will reset more often.
I disagree cause it like a summoner who tries to apply all their DoTs without Bane, but only worst cause the BRD's dots are both 18 seconds long, you don't have time for that.

Who's more right? Me or the friend?

you. rod resets are strong, and multi dotting is more sustainable than quick nock spam

10char

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Originally Posted by Lux_Rayna

Ranger is that way ---->
The problem with BRD is too many ppl rolled ARC to be Legolas. All of the complaints about BRD have been rooted in Legolas syndrome since 1.0. If SE made a ranger job we wouldnt be hearing so much whine about the same ole deepz topic.

Brd is about utility and damage support. Its role is auxiliary rather than primary. A great bard makes a raid buttery smooth.

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Ish, bard in this game is about both because if we were full support like that we wouldn't have bow skills.

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Originally Posted by Aiurily

you. rod resets are strong, and multi dotting is more sustainable than quick nock spam

10char

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I was promoting multidotting at first.
And yes this is more sustainable and in the long run isn't much lower dps. So for fights like A2 & A2S where the adds can live for a while and you won't have a break for your tp multi dotting is the way to go.

But during dungeon runs where the tank pulls big groups and these groups won't last too long and you get a moment to recover tp while running to the next pack.
Putting up dots on the highest hp target (which is not main target of the melee) then keeping dots going on it with IJ while spamming QN + RoD proc's is the way to go.

So both are not wrong, just should be used for different situations.

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Originally Posted by Linadae

Bow/Gun mage.

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You know... I think this is the fundamental problem here... people are trying to force the Bard and Machinist to fill the same basic role as the Gunner from Final Fantasy X-2... when it seems that the Developers would prefer that the Bard and Machinist fill a role that more closely resembles the Gun Mage from the same game.

well in the end its rly not what the developers want the class to be its what the player wants to play if the bowmage as it is does not suit someone he will reroll. if there are no classes that you like anymore players will wait for some changes if those changes dont come players will quit. its rly that simple actually ^^ guess why we lost a good lot of ppl already.
i for myself am putting up with the bowmage right now i dont like it and i dont like any other class cause well they are all the same now range wise (BLM, Bowmage, Gunmage and Dotmage) but i dont want to leave my raid hanging.
i dont know how many other ppl will do the same ...