Out of touch? PLL

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Originally Posted by IDontPetLalas

No, the only metric being "engagement metrics" is an oversimplification. That is not the "rule of MMOs". If it was that simple, then you could have drag any virtually anyone off the street and -voila- here is how your game is doing, this is precisely what needs to be done in order to make more money, and keep doing more money, for the amount of time that the company wants to make money.

People in "marketing" (and technically- I work in the Marketing division) routinely get feedback from different segments and their interests have to be reviewed and balanced - however that doesn't mean that each segment needs to be weighted equally. Square could decide (for example) that casuals are >>> the very hardcore if that fits their business model . It would then be more helpful if instead of promising they will do it "one day"- they explain that going forwards, the game direction will be more casual/mid- this way the very hardcore aren't misled.

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You can look at almost every big decision they have made from past nerfs to MSQ duties to job changes on all roles as a reflection of engagement metrics.

Steps of Faith nerf - Users getting barred by it
ARR MSQ nerf - User falloff before HW
Healer Kit nerf - Lack of active healers in PF, biggest complaint being "too complex"
Ast specifically, gets tweaked every expansion and for some time was the lowest played Healer.
Eureka nerf - less people in the instance, laxed requirements to proceed
Bozja nerf - see above

Engagement is superior for any company. It directly transfers to wealth. If your player engagement is low, people fall off, thus less money. Business 101

/thread- People literally saying they are leaving cause they don't find the specific content engaging enough.

Now you can cut the pie into categories to further analyze engagement metrics within certain domains, for example, savage content, understanding what types of mechanics and overall balance within encounters see the most clear rates tier for tier or understanding which classes are specifically popular over others vs the design of a particular encounter.

Same with something like crafting, being non-macroable in HW and how many crafters participated in that vs current last 5 years where all crafting is macroable and easily accessible. Notice they never went back to HW style crafting by and large, outside of a sprinkle for ishgard restoration. Metrics (and how that relates to their overall goal) matters most.

To say otherwise is folly. SE is a company first and foremost. They are always looking at numbers. When they make content for a particular base, say casuals and MSQ, they definitely are looking at how many people are proceeding through it and if/where there is fall off. If it's specifically jarring enough, they tend to employ a fix somewhere.

Let me see....
Frontline is considered as casual and that is a large chunk of activities.
Housing is also another large piece of casual content
Mahjong is also another large chunk of casual activities for Korean/Chinese/Japanese players (2/3 of FF14 population?)
I think it is just people not seeing the activates they want to do

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Originally Posted by Divinemights

Let me see....
Frontline is considered as casual and that is a large chunk of activities.
Housing is also another large piece of casual content
Mahjong is also another large chunk of casual activities for Korean/Chinese/Japanese players (2/3 of FF14 population?)
I think it is just people not seeing the activates they want to do

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Have you realize how any of those is PvE content, which is the entire focus of the msq, job design and character progression?

Side activities are just that, side activities and can't compensate for the lack of a main activity

(Let alone how some of those examples are awful, housing is very gated, frontlines arent properly maintained nor balanced and no one pays an mmorpg sub just to play mahjong)

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Originally Posted by Divinemights

Let me see....
Frontline is considered as casual and that is a large chunk of activities.
Housing is also another large piece of casual content
Mahjong is also another large chunk of casual activities for Korean/Chinese/Japanese players (2/3 of FF14 population?)
I think it is just people not seeing the activates they want to do

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Thing is though, most of what you list up there are side activities. There should also be content where you use the skills you acquire during your leveling phase, really. The core part of the game is playing our class, one way or the other.

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Originally Posted by Aidorouge

Huh, I wasn't aware there was a lack for phys ranged... but then I admit I don't look inside of PF very often, since 99% of the time it's just venue spam (yes, even on Maduin, somehow).

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My dps as a MCH are somehow worse than before DT. Maybe it's also me don't having a good rotation habit after the little changes. But honestly I feel like that MCH is just again in a very bad spot at the moment, like it also was too weak when Endwalker released. Then they buffed it over the top from patch to patch. And now it's really bad again. Can't say anything about Bard and Dancer.

https://i.imgur.com/I6yxCuC.gif

Sums up my feeling about the live letter the fact that they addressed nothing of player's concerns after DawnTrail and just buried their heads in the Sand was not a good look

I have watched a lot of LL over the years some good and some bad but this one was bad and they had no real things to show or get us excited about. I have subbed a lot and almost 15 years in so I know the drill. I feel the past year or so the game has lost a lot of players who I know played like me daily.
The LL had no energy. I feel that Yoshi is choosing to ignore the feedback and is hoping the monster that is chasing you will disappear if you don't turn around. I did not like the cheap pic of the new FFXI raid the day before the LL only to watch and be given same image and then another FFXI character on the main poster it just felt shit as I am sure others tuned in to see because of that.

I have noticed FFXIV has had less and less it feels like forever for LL and any information. I used to play frontlines a lot to pass the time but I can't cope with people not choosing a dance partner or standing round or throwing the match so I do not play that much now.

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Originally Posted by Garruss

https://i.imgur.com/I6yxCuC.gif

Sums up my feeling about the live letter the fact that they addressed nothing of player's concerns after DawnTrail and just buried their heads in the Sand was not a good look

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I wouldn't expect them to do so in a thing that was suppose to build hype. In terms of building hype though I thought this letter was pretty bad. Nothing about the story, basically no info about the ultimate, basically no info about upcoming changes to pve or pvp.

Like a simple trailer video with a less than 30 seconds of content being shown would of had endless discussion to bide people over, but we ended up with a png sideshow of stuff we already knew was coming.

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Originally Posted by Luluna

I have watched a lot of LL over the years some good and some bad but this one was bad and they had no real things to show or get us excited about. I have subbed a lot and almost 15 years in so I know the drill. I feel the past year or so the game has lost a lot of players who I know played like me daily.
The LL had no energy. I feel that Yoshi is choosing to ignore the feedback and is hoping the monster that is chasing you will disappear if you don't turn around. I did not like the cheap pic of the new FFXI raid the day before the LL only to watch and be given same image and then another FFXI character on the main poster it just felt shit as I am sure others tuned in to see because of that.

I have noticed FFXIV has had less and less it feels like forever for LL and any information. I used to play frontlines a lot to pass the time but I can't cope with people not choosing a dance partner or standing round or throwing the match so I do not play that much now.

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Frontlines have some incredibly bizarre issues. There's win trading for no real reason, and there are RMT "services" to have premades target a specific individual or team. I don't know how rampant these are, but the fact that they exist at all is confusing.

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Originally Posted by WaxSw

Have you realize how any of those is PvE content, which is the entire focus of the msq, job design and character progression?

Side activities are just that, side activities and can't compensate for the lack of a main activity

(Let alone how some of those examples are awful, housing is very gated, frontlines arent properly maintained nor balanced and no one pays an mmorpg sub just to play mahjong)

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These nevertheless still count as casual activities whether you agree or not
These do not requires same amount of effort as Savage content
The number of casual actives clearly out number challenge activities
It has been over 10 years and they finally gives 24 men Savage a go
Just one patch there is no casual PVE don’t mean this game is not heavily design for casuals