Can you please Ease Up on Atma now?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Apricoth

If any of you are not having fun with this, need to move on to weapons that are less time consuming for you. You do NOT need to have this weapon. Get it out of your heads right now. If you want the weapon, you do the work like the rest of us did and accept the fact that this is indeed a grind fest, unpleasant but is a means to an end. Plain and simple.

With that being said, I love you guys. <3

---

I'm doing Levi EX for my book... on the Duty Finder...eventually I'ma hop into a FC as content is getting harder now and DF ain't always going to cut it lol but hey I did
Garuda EX and boy it felt great and in a DF party.

But yeah. Until they do something else to Atma I am not touching it anymore. I'll be 100% honest and said I spent about 1 hour on Atma all in all.
I found it God dang BORING AS HELL and stopped. In Levi EX I know that I may have a chance and the RNG for a friggin' book is much less than Atma...and it's fun
wiping and learning and progressing as a team and be aware of your surroundings, not running around like an asshat spamming Ruin all day.
There is other ways to obtains weapons. I personally feel like I've fallen too far behind at this point.
There is less people for FATE groups anymore anyways...I am still rocking Zenith and I
neeeed a better book by now! xD I'm glad Relic is not the end all be all of weapons.

The Atma challenge wasn't representative of how most players are now gathering Atma. We don't have an alliance following us around clearing FATEs as soon as we show up. Your second argument highlights the failure of the Atma grind, equal rewards for unequal work. FATE leeching is among the worst player activities to participate in. You are what's wrong withe the system.

You may want to read exactly about what and why people are complaining about.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by skaterger

Because not everyone has to get the same reward with the same amount of effort put in. If so, there wouldn't be people that killed T9 20+ times and not seen their weapon drop.

---

No weapon drop in almost 5 MONTHS+ (assuming a weekly lockout here) is CRAP design and nothing that should be defended.... O_o
Seriously game devs have it so ridiculously easy with people like you.
Why bother creating some elaborate and fun loot system, when you can just slap on cheap RNG and say "deal with it".

If I were a raider in this game and didn't get the gear I need in order to be ready for the next boss after farming 5 friggin months, I'd probably go "f*** this game".

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Granyala

So why exactly are the 400 Fates another person does w/o getting rewarded worth less than my 390 Fates that netted me the weapon I desired?

People like you LOVE to throw around buzzwords like "instant gratification", "handouts" or "entitlement" but fail miserably when it comes to understanding the actual problem of the atma grind.

Hint: It's not that it's a time consuming grind.

---

Whatever, you're just speaking roundabout nonsense as everyone else here and will do so for a long time to come. I did over 350 FATEs for one of my Atma for Ninja. And about another 400 for the rest. So what? You stop complaining and keep going. All of you complainers knew upfront that this was going to be a grind. Yoshi-P even stated as much himself. It would not be easy to suffer not seeing a drop for a while. And yet it's casual content -- content you can go at your own pace. Entitlement creeps in when players want what they want immediately, sooner or as soon as seeing someone else get it.

I call you players entitled because you want something given to you easily and don't want to go through the trials that other people go through to get what they want. If you don't have it your way, you cry moan and complain that the system and the world is unfair to you. Trust me when I say I understand the problem with the grind. However, it's one thing to understand the grind, and another to deal with it and keep it moving if it's for something you want. If it wasn't complaining about Atma, it would definitely be complaining about something else in the relic questline regardless.

Some people can go 100-200 FATEs and get all 12 Atma. Some people will go 800+ or even 1000+. It happens. However, common math will prove that going 800 or 1000+ FATEs is far more unlikely than going 200~600 FATEs. So really what are you complaining about? That you have to keep going and see no return? Tough luck. Man up or quit and do UAT/Ramuh/High Allagan like other quitters. Or wait until the eventual nerf.

By the way, it's also a grind to get Ramuh & High Allagan weapons as well (and Leviathan Mirrors before it). Much more difficult than farming Atma with all that's required. But still people deal with it and grind.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Granyala

No weapon drop in almost 5 MONTHS+ (assuming a weekly lockout here) is CRAP design and nothing that should be defended.... O_o
Seriously game devs have it so ridiculously easy with people like you.
Why bother creating some elaborate and fun loot system, when you can just slap on cheap RNG and say "deal with it".

If I were a raider in this game and didn't get the gear I need in order to be ready for the next boss after farming 5 friggin months, I'd probably go "f*** this game".

---

I enjoy the atma part more than animus/nexus part. The novus part was excellent though. It has been more than 2 weeks since nexus was released and I have yet to get even 200/2000 lights. I can't bring myself to farm 500 runs of garuda hm (with bonus) because its so fricking boring and repetitive. Same thing with 270 runs of mythflox. So I guess we like different things?

I don't think they arr necessarily lazy just because they choose to use rng. It's not hard to make a token system at all. Don't forget that atma is the only rng portion of the entire relic quest. And 20+ runs of t9 not seeing a weapon and 1000+ fates not seeing an atma are in the extreme minority. it's been proven that people lie here about the number of fates done just to make a point. It's all been discussed to death in other posts. Go look it up.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ZReport

Some people can go 100-200 FATEs and get all 12 Atma. Some people will go 800+ or even 1000+. It happens. However, common math will prove that going 800 or 1000+ FATEs is far more unlikely than going 200~600 FATEs.

---

Yes ~400-500 seems to be the average and I do indeed agree that it is an acceptable amount of effort for a supposedly special weapon.
However in good game design you would narrow the outliers esp on the negative end.

You'd see to it that there are no people that would need say, target average + 30%.
It's really easy to implement:
Guaranteed drop after 59 FATEs for a 700 FATE worst case scenario.

Sheer DEV lazyness or the sadistic need to weed people out via RNG is the reason why they didn't implement it.
And this is why I call it bad design.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by skaterger

And 20+ runs of t9 not seeing a weapon and 1000+ fates not seeing an atma are in the extreme minority.

---

An extreme minority that simply spoken: Should not exist.
Not only because it is frustrating to these players but also because it creates a lot of totally unnecessary drama, as shown by the countless atma complaint threads.

BTW: Nexus grind surely sounds horrible. 500x the same boss? Ouch!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Granyala

An extreme minority that simply spoken: Should not exist.
Not only because it is frustrating to these players but also because it creates a lot of totally unnecessary drama, as shown by the countless atma complaint threads.

BTW: Nexus grind surely sounds horrible. 500x the same boss? Ouch!

---

I guess I belong to the old school generation. I played games like RO, rose and maple where the atrocious drop rates were 100x worse than atma. So take that for what you will. I like rng because it keeps it interesting.

I've had multiple 15% chance successes and multiple 90%+ chance failures and I believe it evens out somewhat at the end. I guess a good compromise would be using prng, where everytime you don't get atma after a fate, the drop rate for subsequent atma can be increased till it hits a cap of say 20% then it resets once you get it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by skaterger

I've had multiple 15% chance successes and multiple 90%+ chance failures and I believe it evens out somewhat at the end. I guess a good compromise would be using prng, where everytime you don't get atma after a fate, the drop rate for subsequent atma can be increased till it hits a cap of say 20% then it resets once you get it.

---

I think I managed to get to 99% HQ chance on a ring and have it not proc today. *shakes fist @ RNGesus*

Ofc it evens out over large sample sizes, problem is: an individual player doesn't see that / doesn't care. He only sees "My stuff doesn't drop while my buddy got his after 2/3rds the time I've put in. :(" and subsequently gangs up with fellow unlucky persons and opens threads on the forums to create (often exaggerated) drama in hopes of getting stuff changed he deems unfair.
Drama and negativity that could have been easily avoided with a little more DEV effort.

There are a lot of things SE can do to give players peace of mind. My static number was just one possible example.

Just one anecdote: I read about atma on these forums before getting to that stage and was terrified because usually RNG REALLY hates me in any game.
But I decided to give it a shot anyway.

LOL daily limit and character limit... these forums are hilarious... :D
I'll just edit it in, ZReport. Have a nice night!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ZReport

Eventually that's what the purpose of relic will be, I will assume now. Much like FFXI's relics, they will be harder and harder to come by, and you'll start to see more and more people with unfinished weapons due to giving up.

---

Very well possible whether that is a good business decision or not remains to be seen, because I can imagine a lot of people being frustrated to the point of quitting the game.

I wonder what will happen to the relics when the addon hits.
The only wish I have would be more lore tied to the weapons.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Granyala

Yes ~400-500 seems to be the average and I do indeed agree that it is an acceptable amount of effort for a supposedly special weapon.
However in good game design you would narrow the outliers esp on the negative end.

You'd see to it that there are no people that would need say, target average + 30%.
It's really easy to implement:
Guaranteed drop after 59 FATEs for a 700 FATE worst case scenario.

Sheer DEV lazyness or the sadistic need to weed people out via RNG is the reason why they didn't implement it.
And this is why I call it bad design.


An extreme minority that simply spoken: Should not exist.
Not only because it is frustrating to these players but also because it creates a lot of totally unnecessary drama, as shown by the countless atma complaint threads.

BTW: Nexus grind surely sounds horrible. 500x the same boss? Ouch!

---

Eventually that's what the purpose of relic will be, I will assume now. Much like FFXI's relics, they will be harder and harder to come by, and you'll start to see more and more people with unfinished weapons due to giving up. Despite this, it will still be casual content that people can do at their pace. You don't need to join a well trained static, there's no real obligation needed except copious amounts of time (and/or money, considering Animus -> Novus stage).

It's not so much a sadistic need to weed out players over it being a business decision. The devs understand that these weapons carry a level of prestige from FFXI, as well as legendary weapons from WoW. It's more or less the same thing, it's a control to keep players playing because they know said players want said items. I know some people who grind for these weapons just because some weapons can be exceptionally bright, shiny and gaudy and just cool (or silly) to look at. I know others who obtained the weapons because it was a poorman's alternative and no real work required. Even more so do I know people who want it for the eventual relic change into the weapons of legend.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by skaterger

I guess a good compromise would be using prng, where everytime you don't get atma after a fate, the drop rate for subsequent atma can be increased till it hits a cap of say 20% then it resets once you get it.

---

Which is all we've been essentially been asking for all this time. However, when I've had this idea in my head the cap is normally 5% or 10%. Still reasonable odds and I would be happy with that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ZReport

Or wait until the eventual nerf.

---

What is stopping the nerf from being in 2.4? Atmas are going to be outdated content by then, trailing behind the new ilevel increase. they need something to help them catch up, and an increase in the Atmas is the way to go. They do still need to go through the Animus, Novus and Nexus grind first as well, so it isn't like they will get an instant i115 weapon in a week after the drop increase. There is no reason to hold people back and they shouldn't.