Tales from Duty Finder: Some make you laugh, some make you cry. Let's vent.

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Originally Posted by Mysterysword

I don't think that word means what you think it means. That gear did not belong to you, not until it dropped into your inventory. Both you and the SMN participated in a group effort to earn that gear, and so you both had an equal claim to gear which, I repeat, did not belong to you until it dropped into your bag. Luck dictated that the SMN got it. They did not take the gear from your bag. They did not hack into your account to take your things. That would be the actual definition of stealing.

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You are correct. The gear belonged to leveling players, who can use the item for its stats rather than just its appearance.

Guess who was the only leveling player in the group who could actually use it?

I will chime in to say that Lv70s (or whatever high level) who intend to roll "NEED" on gear should check to see if there's someone else in the dungeon that might need that gear for actual use before clicking the "NEED" button.

It isn't hard to tell; <Lv50 players will oftentimes be Sprouts and/or you can tell them by their gear or if they are unsync'd. I will say that it is very lousy for a Lv70 player to roll NEED on gear and steal it away from someone who is unsync'd and/or someone who is wearing gear weaker than the piece that dropped because they obviously actually need it to use.

And in personal opinion, the "NEED" button should only be used when:

A). You need the gear to use.
B). You are the only one of that class who can use said gear otherwise. (I am even hesitant to use the Need button here, especially on Tank/Heal gear -- last thing we need is people having trouble gearing up Tanks or Healers. More Tanks/Healers = Faster Queues for us all, so I let other people have Tank/Heal gear in the hopes they are rolling Greed to gear another job up with the intention of leveling it in Roulettes).

But then unlike a lot of people, I actually have some compassion and consideration for the fellow man/woman. No, frivolous needing on gear is not against the ToS, and to be honest, it isn't really "wrong", but yet it is a jerk thing to do under certain situations.

But to waste everybody's time, and refuse to heal a group because you missed out on some loot? That's even worse. Now, not only are we talking about some piece of gear you will replace in a few levels, but we're also talking about wasting 3 other players' time over your personal gripe. Now, @Dameron... if you were the one needing the gear... I see you have "Dragoon Lv70" beside your name. Uh, you can take that 70 DRG and get the gear yourself, solo, quite easily. It might take a few runs, but those pieces will eventually drop. You're not a Sprout who has no alternative means to gear up. That's probably why the SMN rolled need on the gear; they could tell that you were not a newbie.

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Originally Posted by Dameron

You are correct. The gear belonged to leveling players, who can use the item for its stats rather than just its appearance.

Guess who was the only leveling player in the group who could actually use it?

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The gear belonged to the group who put in a joint effort to clear the dungeon. Without any specific rules set by you (as a group) its "free loot for all" - as in: Need when you can, greed when you can, highste roll wins.

Being the leveling player doesnt mean the gear belongs to you by default - check your privilege again...

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Originally Posted by Vidu

check your privilege again...

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Can we not use this phrase around adults please...its a phrase i attribute to children roleplaying as adults..

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Originally Posted by Skyclaw726

Can we not use this phrase around adults please...its a phrase i attribute to children roleplaying as adults..

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While I agree, it also seems to me that we are talking to a child, so perhaps it is appropriate. It's posts like these that really make me appreciate my 5-year-old nephew and 2-year-old niece, for being far more pleasant to spend time with.

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Originally Posted by Dameron

Guess who was the only leveling player in the group who could actually use it?

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You're not a leveling player - you're a player with a 70 job (as I said in my previous post and another person also stated) who can easily farm any 'leveling' gear you may ever want or need outside of 60+ dungeons. Leveling players are not just people leveling new/alt jobs -- they are those with no other means to attain certain gear because they are genuinely new to the game and leveling their first character to max. Once you're past that, you're no longer 'leveling' and don't 'deserve' whatever privileges those new players get // rather, you're just leveling an alt...

When you queue in Duty Finder as a healer,

YOU. NEED. TO. HEAL.

If you can weave damage spells in and keep everyone up, great, fantastic, you make the run go smoother. But if you queue as a healer and just spam Stone/Malefic/Broil because you just want to DPS and the DPS queues are so long, you are awful and I wish for you to step on legos.

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Originally Posted by Mysterysword

While I agree, it also seems to me that we are talking to a child, so perhaps it is appropriate. It's posts like these that really make me appreciate my 5-year-old nephew and 2-year-old niece, for being far more pleasant to spend time with.

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If i'm following correctly, Dameron rolled on a piece of loot to use while leveling, Person B rolls on same piece of loot for glamour purposes and wins, dameron proceeds to threaten the group with underperforming unless they kick Person B, they refuse and kick dameron instead and now this saga is unfolding?

What a heated discussion. I roll on whatever I need/want. If someone needs something they can politely ask in the chat if they can get just that item. If they get it, great, if not, well then, too bad. It's that simple. But if you want to keep spamming and picking at each other, go ahead.

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Originally Posted by Dameron

So you continue to offer no answers that justify the guy's behaviour and instead resort to insulting me and telling me to "deal with it".

If you can't think of any reasons why the guy might be in the right, don't bother defending him.

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In terms of etiquette? You're both wrong. Him for cussing you out, you for behaving like a baby and both of you for making life difficult for the other two people in party.

In terms of rolling for loot? There's no scenario within this game where you are right to declare him a thief. If he'd agreed to pass gear it'd have been nice of him but he absolutely had no need to do so.

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Originally Posted by Skyclaw726

they refuse and kick dameron instead and now this saga is unfolding?

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Yes, except include the ridiculous entitlement shown here.

But to get back on topic... I would like it if tanks could at least put some effort into trying to hold aggro from me. Personally, I don't care if the tank doesn't do a single point of damage the entire run. That's my job, as a BLM. But it gets a little difficult to do my job when mobs are chewing my face off because the tank couldn't be bothered to hit one button a few more times. Even worse when this is happening with a STR-geared tank, who isn't interested in holding aggro in the first place.

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Originally Posted by Dameron

If you can't think of any reasons why the guy might be in the right, don't bother defending him.

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I'll give it a go.

First off I agree that TOS has nothing to do with this discussion because this isn't about whether he did a reportable offense. It's a discussion about courtesy. So I won't mention TOS.

The game doesn't define a criteria for what is considered a "need" or a "want" (greed). Nowhere is it suggested that a person only really needs an item if it's a stat/ilvl boost. They leave it to each individual player's own criteria of what they consider a "need". The only "need" criteria given by the game is whether the button shows up in the first place.

Now, personally I don't care about glamour and would never need for it, but I don't get to press other people's roll buttons so I don't get to define their definition of "need". Maybe that person is a RP-er who needed that glamour for a role, maybe he had a specific outfit in mind, maybe he's been running that dungeon for hours trying to get that specific glamour, or some other reason I can't think of. Whatever the case that is his definition of need, not mine, not yours.

He should have been nicer about telling you why he won't just let you have it (like actually stating one of the above reasons instead of just saying to f*** off), that was certainly rude. However, he still has the right to Need if he felt he needed it.

lol, this thread is more toxic than the Arum Vale on a Tuesday morning

well im back again with 3 tales of my attempts to tank susno ex all involving warriors and none involving loot first was a one who never used defiance we crumpled like a piece paper when ever had arrgo second one was my first run in with a strength warrior who also spend the who fight dying and finally there was this one with a mix of strength and vit gear and oh boy this guy was bad died and every time he tanked suasno he had in stand in the zone of death zone in the middle crippling all of the meleel dps in our party so of course we didn't make the dps check

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Originally Posted by Pyro2hell3

well im back again with 3 tales of my atempts to tank susno ex all involving warriors and none involving loot first was a one who never used defiance we cumpled like a piece paper when ever had arrgo second one was my first run in with a strength warrior twho also spend the who fight dying and finally there was ther one with a mix of stregnth and vit gear and oh boy this guy was bad died and every time he tak suasnon he hand in stand in the zone of death zone in the middle cripiile all of the mell dps in our party so of course we didn't make the dps check

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I had a similar encounter with a Warrior in Susano EX that refused to use Defiance after the Sword Phase even to mitigate oncoming tank busters. My cohealer and I kept them up through several farm runs but it was far more of a chore than it had been before they joined. We both has almost no MP by the end of it and were constantly stressed trying to keep that Warrior alive, especially as they kept on dropping lightning on the party. It wasn't as if our party even needed the DPS as the farm had been going for long before that Warrior joined and we'd always skip one or two sets of Gaols at the end due to the high output the party was capable of, and due to their actions neither myself or my cohealer could help contribute which resulted in a net DPS loss. It's doable and I know people here will likely say that I shouldn't complain since we cleared for a few more runs, but that wasn't because of the tank. They objectively made the entire thing harder and had the rest of the party not been so on point we'd likely have had to disband.

Please... PLEASE... At least move back to Defiance for tank busters or when you're MTing. Our mana pools and the overall group DPS will thank you. I have no idea where this recent meta of tanking EXCLUSIVELY in your DPS stance has come from but frankly I'm getting rather tired of it.

I didn't think susano normal was that difficult, but apparently it is for some people. We had two WHMs that couldn't muster the heals to keep the tank alive from very healable damage. The OT never taunted when the MT died, which lead to death snowballing through the entire group. I had to verraise half the group, and got everyone alive for the DPS check, which they failed.

I couldn't even contribute to the DPS check because i had to run and get the balls before they smashed into the group, because nobody would do it consistantly. On top of that, i had to heal the tank who was doing the sword thing because the WHMs didn't even throw regens on him

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Originally Posted by Enla

I have no idea where this recent meta of tanking EXCLUSIVELY in your DPS stance has come from but frankly I'm getting rather tired of it.

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It's not recent, this has been a thing for quite a bit. However, competent tanks will how how to rotate cds in DPS stance for optimal mitigation. Swapping back to tank stance is something they do if they run out of strong CDs.

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Originally Posted by Dameron

Entitlement 101

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http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/...15/152/aed.jpg

So, I'm leveling scholar atm - currently at 68, Dom Castle time! A dungeon I already dont like to much to be honest.

While leveling I had a few intresting runs - mostly consisting of tanks, wearing strenght-accsessories, pulling multiple groups and droping their tankstance half way through a two or three group pull. Fun times! Specially as scholar who kinda lacks proper big heals - if the dps isnt good, I just dont have enough lustrates to heal through the second surprise-group and the lack of tank-stance.
But well, somehow you manage - even manage to put some extra dps in.

That little scholar-tank-rant asside: Doma castle just now. No "new player here" message pop ups. The level 70 paladin is in full 270 strength (but melded with vit, puts his HP maybe 2k above mine) and goes for big pulls. The samurai seems okay, but the summoner... the summoner seems not to know about bane and dot-speading. Anytime I have the chance to take a look at the mobs, I can only see mine - I check the partylist and... ah, french. Only french. So I figure I dont even bother asking since I dont speak french.
During the first boss the dots appear, so maybe he just forgot before? All good... or so I think!
We get to the second boss and that level 67 SMN, who isnt new to the dungeon (remember: no message!) runs away with the stack-marker and dies in a corner. Okay, quick explantion in party-chat and a raise. Stupid me explained in english though, so the SMN obviously doesnt understand and runs away with the marker again... I choose not to raise him a second time since my MP are to precious to waste them on someone who dies this stupidly.
After the boss is dead he stays there lying for a good more 20 seconds, expecting a raise that he doesnt get - I'm not raising someone with weakness when they can just take the shortcut.
We're on our way to the final boss now - his DoTs have disappeared, making everything die painfully slow. Its at this point I realise: The final boss as even MORE markers that you have to handle correctly... oh boy, thats gonna be fun...
We go in and the SMN gets the first bomb-marker that you have to place in a corner - and hallelujah, he does that! Walks over into a corner and... stays there. Drops the marker on the ground and stands on top of it to get killed instantly. I had made up my mind before already: No raise for him if he does that and he must have read my mind because he returned immidiatly.
With only one DPS and less healer-dps (because I had to heal more) I got to see mechanics on that boss I didnt saw before... fun times. Tank died at some point because of a badly placed bomb, samurai died because of... something, but somehow we made it with the SMN standing outside of the gate just watching.

Each time I encounter a person like this I regret a little that we didnt wipe and kicked them so they'll noticed they're doing something terribly, terribly wrong...

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Originally Posted by Lilseph

It's not recent, this has been a thing for quite a bit. However, competent tanks will how how to rotate cds in DPS stance for optimal mitigation. Swapping back to tank stance is something they do if they run out of strong CDs.

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Seems I've been sadly getting the incompetent ones then. ):

Do healers not like it when Paladin's use clemency cuz when I do I've been yelled at the last few times that I've run dungeons see in my mind I figure with using clemency I take stress off the Healer

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Originally Posted by Dreggit

Do healers not like it when Paladin's use clemency cuz when I do I've been yelled at the last few times that I've run dungeons see in my mind I figure with using clemency I take stress off the Healer

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I love tanks who use Clemency! So thank you so much for popping it! Don't worry about the healers who get upset with you about it, in actual end game content it's an essential mechanic and no healer worth their salt will actually get upset with the additional help that allows them to focus on other things.

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Originally Posted by Dreggit

Do healers not like it when Paladin's use clemency cuz when I do I've been yelled at the last few times that I've run dungeons see in my mind I figure with using clemency I take stress off the Healer

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I think some assume you're not happy with the job they're doing of healing you. I use clemency so the healer can do more dps. Clemency is part of PLD's tanking kit as much as anything else.

Did lakshmi EX and when she did her big animation move I'd popped Refresh cause both healers were low and it was off CD so figured why not. Both felt the need to thank me for doing basic support as a BRD. I laughed to hard at being thanked for doing what I'm supposed to. One could argue it was a bad time to pop it since they aren't even casting and already regenerating MP

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Originally Posted by Dreggit

Do healers not like it when Paladin's use clemency cuz when I do I've been yelled at the last few times that I've run dungeons see in my mind I figure with using clemency I take stress off the Healer

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thats kinda crazy if they got upset with that.

As a healer I love it when a tank uses Clemency. Give me a lil more time to do some other things. In my opinion, keep on using it. I mean, SE put it in for you. Not sure why healers get upset over that.

The only thing I can think of it's because they heal you less and their lillies (WHM) do not pop faster. But if this is the case, those lilies regenerate so fast anyways. So I am not entirely too sure why they get upset over that lol

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Originally Posted by Jade3173

Did lakshmi EX and when she did her big animation move I'd popped Refresh cause both healers were low and it was off CD so figured why not. Both felt the need to thank me for doing basic support as a BRD. I laughed to hard at being thanked for doing what I'm supposed to. One could argue it was a bad time to pop it since they aren't even casting and already regenerating MP

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You'd be surprised how may BRDs and MCHs DON'T cast Refresh and even seem to be actively allergic to the skill. Whenever I see someone use it I try to thank them for that reason alone.

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Originally Posted by Annah

thats kinda crazy if they got upset with that.

As a healer I love it when a tank uses Clemency. Give me a lil more time to do some other things. In my opinion, keep on using it. I mean, SE put it in for you. Not sure why healers get upset over that.

The only thing I can think of it's because they heal you less and their lillies (WHM) do not pop faster. But if this is the case, those lilies regenerate so fast anyways. So I am not entirely too sure why they get upset over that lol

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I was under that impression, too. When I see the healer busy moving out of bad things on the floor, I'll throw some Clemency heals on some party members just to keep players up. I know it's more "optimal" to use it on Holy Spirit, but I think it's more optimal to ensure that my party stays alive, myself included.

I love Clemency. I have a PLD friend who'd match me when I was casting Adlo. He's at full health on top of a 10k shield. And fun times were had by all. Except the Royal Menagerie boss. He didn't have a good time.

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Originally Posted by Dreggit

Do healers not like it when Paladin's use clemency cuz when I do I've been yelled at the last few times that I've run dungeons see in my mind I figure with using clemency I take stress off the Healer

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I personally like it, sometimes I'm doing mechanics and there'll be a tank buster or a large aoe and its helpful, especially when I have to save a DerPS who stood in the bad thing.

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Originally Posted by Dreggit

Do healers not like it when Paladin's use clemency cuz when I do I've been yelled at the last few times that I've run dungeons see in my mind I figure with using clemency I take stress off the Healer

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I don't mind it.

I think it's just a bit of a (very minor) irritation at times - I've had many instances where I'll be casting Cure/II on the PLD only for them to Clemency right as my cast finishes, effectively having me waste time on a spell that could have instead been a Stone IV or Aero. Granted, this is entirely an issue I sometimes have only with DF tanks that I'm not at all used to nor know what their usual tactics are. If I run with a PLD I know well, and am aware ahead of time that they'll Clemency the smaller ouchies they take, I don't get miffed so much. Though admittedly (again, primarily with DF pallies) it can sometimes come off as if the tank doesn't trust my skills.

But for the most part, less time I have to be healing people = more dps, and I am a very dps-happy WHM. c:

Farming Lakshmi EX, and I don't get why people seem to think my PFs are a revolving door. But anyway, I just love it when random tanks get the DPS killed repeatedly with the conal AoE, then blame us for not being able to meet the DPS check.

Also, Lakshmi's cutscene huggles are beautiful, awe-inspiring, and really take the fights to a whole new level. They are also an excellent callback to the days of old-school FF, featuring 2-minute-long unskippable summoning cutscenes that are awesome the first time you see them, and vomit-inducing when you're sitting through them for the umpteenth time in a row.

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Originally Posted by Dreggit

Do healers not like it when Paladin's use clemency cuz when I do I've been yelled at the last few times that I've run dungeons see in my mind I figure with using clemency I take stress off the Healer

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Don't you know Clemency is a personal insult?

https://youtu.be/pBX7OqTXqcc?t=29s

clemency is usually nice since UNLESS you have a scholar as a healer and they just used excogigation. in that case using clemency and avoiding your hp drop below 50 makes the excog wasted and its actually kind of annoying. other than that, heal yourself to your hearts content. more dps for me

Doing a quick Gubal Hard for some poetics, get a first-timer. We get to Liquid Flame, he asks for some tips, conversation goes as such:
1st timer: "Any tips for this?"
Me: "Do you know how magnets works?"
1st: "No, it's my first time."
I admit I could've probably phrased my question in a way that sounded less snarky, but I could not stop laughing at his response. To his credit, we explained more directly the overall mechanics and he did fine.

Had the best Steps of Faith run not too long ago due to a healer's "macro".

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...017_121031.png

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Originally Posted by Dameron

Don't be rediculous. If he wanted the glamour set so badly, he could've just ran it solo with the Undersized Party feature. Instead he chose to enter groups regularly and steal gear from leveling players.

The fact that you people defend this is stupid. It's ruining the game for other people. That should be punished.

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I mean, it's very possible that he got Brayflox in a roulette, and didn't necessarily queue directly into it. If players can roll Need on things, they aren't stealing gear. Half the time I watch gear from lower dungeons drop to the floor. I usually roll Greed on stuff I don't need but if I need some extra seals, I roll Need instead. If you want a specific piece of gear, ask: "May I have X if it drops?" Most people will pass; if they don't, then they're maybe a bit of a jerk but still within their right to roll.


PF story time: been farming Lakshmi all night. Convinced the mount is some elusive being that I have to jump through certain hoops to get. I was hoping my DPS greed during the last 5% that got me killed because I wa hoping we'd kill her before I'd need another Vrill would prompt it to drop, but alas. No dice.

DF story time: leveling SAM with a friend. We're level 57 (so you know what that means--to THE VAULT!!!). Tank said he wasn't going to do large pulls because two melee = bad AOE. Friend and I then proceeded to alternate spamming AOE skills/Goading each other and just made packs melt. Would also kill the two Dullahans and Knight Horses at the same time for extra amusement. The tank was impressed, and we felt badass. /shades

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Originally Posted by Rinku421

Had the best Steps of Faith run not too long ago due to a healer's "macro".

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...017_121031.png

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lol I've accidentally hit my Raise macro trying to just hit Swiftcast before and "raised" the boss. XD remember doing it one time on Diabolos Hollow and my party was like "ARE YOU DRUNK. STOP TRYING TO RAISE THE BOSS. D:" It was funny.

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Originally Posted by Rinku421

Had the best Steps of Faith run not too long ago due to a healer's "macro"

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That's pretty funny, but you might want to censor the names just to be safe.

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Originally Posted by Heliantheae

That's pretty, but you might want to censor the names just to be safe.

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why? there is no laming or shaming in that post

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Originally Posted by Kuwagami

why? there is no laming or shaming in that post

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I've seen people get in trouble for an innocent post like that before. Better safe than sorry.

It's not ok to have full i250-260 HW stuff in Doma Castle (a lvl 67 dungeon), even if you do meet the minimum requirements.
66 quest/vendor whites are i279. That gap is a lot more than some people think it is.