Black Mage Sanctuary - A Guide to DPS

This is gonna sound kind of disrespectful on my part but if you don't raid, in FF14, you probably shouldn't care that much about your stats beyond a certain point. You don't notice all these 1% upgrades and min/maxing until you're doing slugfest raids where you save 5 seconds on a phase you've done literally 500 times and can see the tiny differences because everyone's decked out in their BiS vs their non-BiS. Upgrades in FF14 are very miniscule, and in non-raid content you're basically just gearing up further if you enjoy the idea that you're gearing up further, if that makes sense.

But to answer your question more legitimately, yes go for full i210 Esoterics as your goal if no other i210 opportunities are available. iLVL is king. You can do some Diadem and get some pretty nice stuff too but again, you won't notice it in dungeons/overworld/Thordan for the most part.

Well, say like that, gearing up if you don't raid seems totally useless. But I understand the point. So I will stop to waste my time with the Ariyala's gear calculator and just go full Eso ;)

Or maybe I will just continue Xenoblade Chronicles and wait the next patch...

Well next patch we should see different gear with other stats i believe, not 100% sure on this however.
For the hat you can just go for the Void Ark hat, and boots as well. Eso gloves are.. not all that great in my opinion and Diadem ring is actually better then having one non-upgraded eso.
The point of not raiding but wanting to min max i rather sort of agree with Sleigh on, does it however mean you should not get bis gear? Well no, that is entirely up to the player. XD

Secondary stats are not going to beat main attributes, this was proven way too long ago. 50-70 Critical (Being roughly) only adds around 1% Critical and main attribute guarantees damage increase, the damage numbers go far higher with much more intense attribute increase. I seen tanks try to do this system in A3s/A4s and it notably gets them killed, it's not a benefit and their DPS was under par.

Edit:

The only time to make this exception is to reach optimal rotation, hence SS/SS, example: Warriors 3x Fell Cleave. Of course Blm don't really need any acc out of current gear and acc caps, so lets leave that out.

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Originally Posted by OneWingedSora

Yeah, they stack.

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Soooo, does Foe and whatever the MCH version is everything BRD and MCH have stack too then?

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Originally Posted by Waliel

Soooo, does Foe and whatever the MCH version is everything BRD and MCH have stack too then?

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Yep.

Also, during the liver letter dummy thing, Yoshi had 12 seconds on AF/UI. Possible buff ?

Interesting if it comes out. There are definitely a lot of scenarios where it could help.

- F4 > F4 cast starts > dodge - can now do another F4 instead of skipping to F1. Or hell just doing F4 F1 F4 F4 F4 would be more lenient and less likely to screw you if you dodge further in the rotation.
- F3P > F4X3 without making B3 cost normal MP
- F3 > F4 F4 > (TC because use or lose) F1. Normally you need F3P or have to do a dreadful B3 ASAP.
- Scenarios like A4S phase changes where you may Transpose, and want the UI F3 to hit the next phase for less MP, but you want the MP from 3 ticks of MP. It's tricky to time as it is, if you didn't get a B3 off. Actually in general this would be godly for A3S phase changes and magnets, and A4S in specific parts.

New potential opener w/ enough SSPD + Fey + Ley lines / Arrow ?

5 F4 > Swiftcast > Flare > Convert > F4

I think it's "viable" in the sense that it would work speed wise and MP wise (need roughly 11s due to F3P AF wasted time, need about .5s to do Swiftcast, 10.5s to do 5 F4s means 2.1 F4 GCD which I believe is possible with all factors), but that'd mean an opener with single target Arrow on the BLM ;/ Only good for fflogs chasing I would suspect.

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Originally Posted by Sleigh

I think it's "viable" in the sense that it would work speed wise and MP wise (need roughly 11s due to F3P AF wasted time, need about .5s to do Swiftcast, 10.5s to do 5 F4s means 2.1 F4 GCD which I believe is possible with all factors), but that'd mean an opener with single target Arrow on the BLM ;/ Only good for fflogs chasing I would suspect.

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Pretty sure it would be possible to do it with just a regular expanded arrow w/ enough spell speed(1100+, which should maybe be attainable in the next raid cycle) since I can do a 4 F4 into swiftcast flare with my spell speed now with an expanded arrow.

I think BLM will be able to do a 5xF4 rotation and 7xF4 opener in 3.2. I did some experimenting today and was able to stack enough PIE to get it in, at the cost of dropping me below 1k INT. Relevant stats are posted in the video's description.

Proof of Concept here

It should take 15 Piety V materia to get myself to enough MP to insert a T1 after B3 (assuming Dunesfolk base PIE). Assuming YoshiP keeps his promises and crafted gear can compete with raid gear, AND that crafted right-side has 2 regular slots and left-side has 1, you'll be able to fill up your LHS with Piety V, some of your RHS with Piety V, and overmeld SpS to some cap to ensure everything fits in. This comes at the cost of having hardly any space to meld Crit/Det/Twelve forbid we'd need to meld Accuracy. Having done absolutely no number crunching beyond checking how much MP is needed, I think an extra F4 per B4 would be a much larger benefit than a bit of extra damage-boosting secondary stats.

Proof of Concept for 5xF4 seems nice and all, but in practice this means:
- Mandatory use of Swiftcast
- no Thunder, ergo no Thundercloud procs for movement
- Third rotation will fall short due to Swiftcast-refreshed Enochian

All in all an even tighter rotation than there is now due to Enochian timer, which is bad in every case where you have to move. Having no Thunder is worse than the extra F4 since full-ticked Thundercloud procs are stronger than F4.

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Originally Posted by Hontaro

- Mandatory use of Swiftcast

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With enough SpS, it won't be necessary. I did it once without needing to Swiftcast at my current SpS, but you need a perfect MP tick. With melds it will be possible, but still tight. This is only for the 25s Eno, and the one time I got the perfect tick I was able to fit 5xF4 in the 20s.

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Originally Posted by Hontaro

- no Thunder, ergo no Thundercloud procs for movement

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Same as before. The only reason I can't do it now is because I don't have enough MP. For a 30s Eno, it's more than possible to fit one in as long as there's enough MP. After that you would be running on the goodwill of procs as you can't fit one in the 25s rotation. At the end of the 20s, once you're in UI, you could fit another in. So worst case scenario, you lose one hardcasted T1.

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Originally Posted by Hontaro

- Third rotation will fall short due to Swiftcast-refreshed Enochian

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I'd love to show it to you, but I wasn't recording at the time and getting the perfect tick takes ages. However, assume that from my video I don't need to Swiftcast. I then F3 > F4x2 > F1 > F4x3 > F3* > B3. That's around 8 GCDs worth of recast time by the time the final F4 goes off, so in a perfect world you can get them all off.

This is all heavily reliant on being able to meld crafted gear and have the stats it normally provides be on par with raid gear. If it's still inferior statwise, the whole plan falls apart.

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Originally Posted by Aloise

I think BLM will be able to do a 5xF4 rotation and 7xF4 opener in 3.2. I did some experimenting today and was able to stack enough PIE to get it in, at the cost of dropping me below 1k INT. Relevant stats are posted in the video's description.

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I just tried this with 394 Piety and I don't think it's going to be viable, see for yourself: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L74GSj6LZpg

Besides that, it feels very restrictive even on a dummy when it does work so in a raid it would be even worse.

What do you do when you go into Blizzard 3 without Swiftcast and you have enough MP to cast Blizzard IV or Thunder but not enough time on Enochian for both? If you do Blizzard IV>Fire 3 you won't have full MP, and if you wait for MP tick after Blizzard IV, you might not have enough Enochian for 5 Fire IVs.

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Originally Posted by Lavitz_

What do you do when you go into Blizzard 3 without Swiftcast and you have enough MP to cast Blizzard IV or Thunder but not enough time on Enochian for both? If you do Blizzard IV>Fire 3 you won't have full MP, and if you wait for MP tick after Blizzard IV, you might not have enough Enochian for 5 Fire IVs.

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The same as before, preserve Enochian and do the best with the rest. Note that if you have to cut a F4 cast, you're falling back to the current rotation. So the "lost" F4 isn't lost compared to what we have now. This is true for any movement that would cut a cast from the rotation. I think you'd get three F4s if you went straight to F3 after B4, and four before Enochian runs out if you delay until you get a tick.

All my assumptions are based off the hope that crafted gear will hold a flame to raid gear. I'm imagining from melds + party bonus you can break 410 PIE, which hopefully will keep you safe even if you don't get a tick after B4 in the B3 > T1 > B4 > F3 at the tail of the 30s rotation. I'd like to imagine we'll have an option between using raid gear to maintain the current rotation and get some more breathing room, or go with crafted gear and get a tighter, riskier rotation that brings in more DPS. I guess I'll see how the cookie crumbles once 3.2 drops.

A buddy shared this with me. Maybe old but come 3.2 AF/UI will now refresh on cast and not hit?

https://i.imgur.com/JNemAV4.jpg

Could be neat.

Yeah I've been thinking about that all day. All possible ramifications I can think of:

- Doing cool F4 X5 openers is probably impossible with Firestarter applying earlier even with pretty crazy SS, it looks like we lost about 1s off our proposed AF time due to that.
- Looks like AF/UI never "drop," so no more ghetto MP ticks. UI should simultaneously be smoother at times but harder overall, it looks like T1 > B4 might fail possibly for two guaranteed ticks. What this means is we have to be super adaptive, holding our press of F3 at times, or switching to the more expensive T2 which we may not always have MP for anyway. Just speculation, no clue if it will really work out like this.
- Gained about 1s for any situation where AF/UI mattered due to earlier AF/UI application.
- No more waiting on AF before we can cast F4 after UI F3. This is more DPS, more Enochian leniency, this is the big buff of all this.

I do worry that F3 > F4 F4 F4 F4 > B3 will become the standard non-Sharpcast rotation ... I've tried some weirdo rotations in the past to see if F4 F4 F1 F4 F4 is truly supreme. While I think it is, currently, I noticed I had almost identical parses with F1 F4 F4 F4 (Firestarter) when I saw the Lucrezia BLM doing that ghetto rotation and still doing okay; F4 F4 F4 F4 would both be definitively higher DPS and would never cause a problem with MP for T1/T2/B4, and would be easy mode as hell. I sincerely hope that does not become a common rotation but I suspect, with testing, it will be proven as good as or close enough that in practice it may even be optimal a lot of the time ... we'll see.

Yeah when I run dungeons I generally already use a lame F1 > F4x3 > B3 > B4 and then repeat for ST rotations. It's really braindead and requires little actual skill after you get used to watching 2 countdowns. Gets boring because with even all the DPS going out with that it feels like I still do not that much damage in the long term with the bloated HP totals everything has in HW content.

Now if they set Transpose and Convert on the same 10 second recast or whatever I could get more proactive and be a little creative. As it stands though HW skills offered don't change the rotation that much at all.

I'm currently testing
F3 > F4x3 > B3 > B4 (when you don't have Sharpcast)
Sharp > F3 > Enoch > F1 > F4x3 > F3p > F4 > B3 > T1 > B4 (when you have Sharpcast)

and tbh, the results aren't that much lower than the current F4x2 F1 F4x2 rotation either.

Edit:
Doing minimal maths results in this:
http://puu.sh/mSm3m.png

F4x2 > F1 > F4x2 is slightly higher. It's just that the triple F4 rotation is much more manageable.

Astral Fire will reset as the spell is finished casting, not hitting in 3.2 and it's 12 seconds.

http://imgur.com/JNemAV4

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Originally Posted by Undeadfire

Astral Fire will reset as the spell is finished casting, not hitting in 3.2 and it's 12 seconds.

http://imgur.com/JNemAV4

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So the thing I posted last page was a new thing. Cool. At least I know to cap spell speed whenever I feel like there is meaningful content to do in this game.

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Originally Posted by Undeadfire

Astral Fire will reset as the spell is finished casting, not hitting in 3.2 and it's 12 seconds.

http://imgur.com/JNemAV4

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Seems to be the magic 0.5 mark when it decides if the spell completes or not.

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Originally Posted by Sleigh

Looks like AF/UI never "drop," so no more ghetto MP ticks. UI should simultaneously be smoother at times but harder overall, it looks like T1 > B4 might fail possibly for two guaranteed ticks. What this means is we have to be super adaptive, holding our press of F3 at times, or switching to the more expensive T2 which we may not always have MP for anyway. Just speculation, no clue if it will really work out like this.

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A habit which I picked up very early in my BLM career before I even read anything about the job and still do it to this day. I'm not even sure if it's worth to wait that half a second to cast F3 instead of doing B1 or T1, but I do it without thinking. It's not very often the mana ticks align like that anyway, so I doubt it matters much right now in the grand scheme of things.

I almost feel like we're going to get a potency nerf to compensate for this change. BLM as is, is already insane, this makes me worry lol. However we are relatively mediocre if we're in a mch pt, meaning one of our major weaknesses is bard dependence.

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Originally Posted by Xisin

I almost feel like we're going to get a potency nerf to compensate for this change. BLM as is, is already insane, this makes me worry lol. However we are relatively mediocre if we're in a mch pt, meaning one of our major weaknesses is bard dependence.

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Yes we go from generally pointless in a MCH party, to pointman in a BRD party. Kind of an issue IMO, I've received my fair share of flak for existing in A3 and A4 without a BRD instead of gearing a MCH/melee properly. I hope part of the 3.2 MCH changes involve a more universal Hypercharge, to help keep things fair.

I do not think any form of buff automatically entitles us to a nerf otherwise though. We are definitely the most comp dependent, strat dependent, RNG dependent DPS in the entire game, with as high a ceiling of potential DPS when the team and strat are right as our DPS floor is low when we merely lose the BRD or mess up once or fail to get some crits in our opener. I think if anything, a small buff to our DPS would balance us out for the bad situations while still of course discouraging BLM stacking because we're right now a long way from out-contributing NIN/DRG, and you need a BRD for BLM stacking to make sense. The ramifications of a BLM buff would mostly be SMN is even more questionable a role, but SMN needs a buff IMO regardless. I'm pretty confident in saying a BRD/MCH with DRG will out-DPS a SMN on a single target, and the difference isn't too high with a BRD either.

What SE really has to do is make sure caster is basically vital in future turns, regardless of comp, like they made solo healing/tanking redundant/impractical since T6-9. I want things that only casters can reasonably do, like a small but constant source of physical resistant enemies, or some real caster LB3 opportunities. Our niche used to be AoE gods (by raid design, somewhat) and caster LB3; our LB3 has been compromised, and the AoE identity has always been a dubious one and now we're not really "great" at it like before. "Ranged melee with Eye for an Eye" is our role now, while SMN's got an even more polarized position of "AoE machine or worst party member," depending on the fight.

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Originally Posted by Sleigh

I do not think any form of buff automatically entitles us to a nerf otherwise though. We are definitely the most comp dependent, strat dependent, RNG dependent DPS in the entire game, with as high a ceiling of potential DPS when the team and strat are right as our DPS floor is low when we merely lose the BRD or mess up once or fail to get some crits in our opener. I think if anything, a small buff to our DPS would balance us out for the bad situations while still of course discouraging BLM stacking because we're right now a long way from out-contributing NIN/DRG, and you need a BRD for BLM stacking to make sense. The ramifications of a BLM buff would mostly be SMN is even more questionable a role, but SMN needs a buff IMO regardless, I'm pretty confident in saying a BRD/MCH with DRG will out-DPS a SMN on a single target, and the difference isn't too high with a BRD either.

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I can agree with this logic. It is a bit of a pain in the ass I suppose.

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Originally Posted by Xisin

I almost feel like we're going to get a potency nerf to compensate for this change. BLM as is, is already insane, this makes me worry lol. However we are relatively mediocre if we're in a mch pt, meaning one of our major weaknesses is bard dependence.

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Dunno why BLM's would get a nerf. Once we move our DPS just flatlines. And I don't feel like I do much damage anyway. Only time I feel like I get put to work is only when Trick Attack and Raging Strikes is up with Enoch plus a lame ass 15 second potion buff.

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Originally Posted by Sleigh

Yes we go from generally pointless in a MCH party, to pointman in a BRD party. Kind of an issue IMO, I've received my fair share of flak for existing in A3 and A4 without a BRD instead of gearing a MCH/melee properly. I hope part of the 3.2 MCH changes involve a more universal Hypercharge, to help keep things fair.

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I don't know about pointless. Should still be getting first place unless there is a Monk in the party to be honest. I too am a victim of no Bard but I am still almost always first place unless its A4. DRG/NIN's ST are still less when compared to a BLM w/o Foes.

Caster-only mechanics will (unfortunately?) never happen as there will be an issue with DF groups, meaning if they got no Caster = instant disband (after 15min of pointless struggle).

As for the B4/T1 > F3 mana tick issue, it might be worth checking how much Piety you need to still cast continously even without the tick.

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Originally Posted by Hontaro

Caster-only mechanics will (unfortunately?) never happen as there will be an issue with DF groups, meaning if they got no Caster = instant disband (after 15min of pointless struggle).

As for the B4/T1 > F3 mana tick issue, it might be worth checking how much Piety you need to still cast continously even without the tick.

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Caster only mechanics already happened ala T11.

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Originally Posted by OneWingedSora

I don't know about pointless. Should still be getting first place unless there is a Monk in the party to be honest. I too am a victim of no Bard but I am still almost always first place unless its A4. DRG/NIN's ST are still less when compared to a BLM w/o Foes.

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First place or not doesn't really matter IMO, much like how MNK beating DRG/NIN doesn't matter. All about dat rDPS contribution.

I'm a firm believer that in a NIN DRG and (in this case) MCH comp, BLM from a min/max standpoint is "pointless" in the sense that, with equal gear/skill/experience/strat/etc, most non-SMN DPS would fulfill that final spot better than BLM would in this current environment (especially A4S as you mentioned). Especially another MCH or BRD; MCH and MCH/BRD actually stack disgustingly well, the stronger player doesn't have to use TP/MP and in the case of MCH MCH, that's a lot of Hypercharge uptime which benefits everyone including each MCH.

I fear what 3.2 MCH may be. I fear range stacking could truly be up there with BLM + BRD, if not in multiple ways better. If it's really stronger than it is currently, by 5% or so rDPS? Scary. While I don't think that'd necessarily put the BRD + BLM comp out in any way, I sure think MCH + caster would be pointless compared to MCH + BRD or MCH + MCH. Need more T4/T11 vulnerabilities, more T10 LB opportunities, some stuff where it goes beyond raw dummy rDPS on bringing a caster or not.

"Pointless" was definitely hyperbole on my part though. BLM is still great without a BRD, especially if you actually make use of Apoc/E4E/Virus (rare these days to have something to Virus ...), and I reckon the BRD caster comp isn't going anywhere anytime soon. It's just if you rock without a BRD when things get min/max weird IMO.

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Originally Posted by Hontaro

Caster-only mechanics will (unfortunately?) never happen as there will be an issue with DF groups, meaning if they got no Caster = instant disband (after 15min of pointless struggle).

As for the B4/T1 > F3 mana tick issue, it might be worth checking how much Piety you need to still cast continously even without the tick.

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Personally I don't think raids should ever be balanced around DF comps. They are designed for pre-made parties to come in with semi-specific comps, communicate on voice chat, and wipe 100s of times to get down. If it goes into DF, it gets echo and is usually overgeared by welfare gear or iLVL raise at that point, anyway. We ran T11 without a caster after it got unlocked many a time without a problem, though it was never optimal.

As long as a caster isn't literally required to clear at all, I think balancing towards having a caster is wonderful. Melee X2 and BRD/MCH are locked in for obvious reasons.

Just as a side note, comment to the Firestarter opener.
If you get a Firestarter proc, would this rotation be stronger?
(Starting oGCDs at the same place) F1 > F3 > F4 > F4 > F1 (get proc) > F4 > F3p > Swift > F4 > Convert > F4 > F4 > B3.

Difference to the one in Aikaal's post is that you use Swift for F4 and push F3p one GCD forward. With Ley Lines up, F4x3 is fast enough so you definitely won't drop AF3 to cast B3, so there's no mana loss there.
This only works with the proc since you won't be able to cast F4x4 without dropping AF3.

Yes that is better than doing a Flare unless there is a TA/pot reason to Swiftcast a GCD later than that, and a heck of a lot better than double weaving.

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Originally Posted by Hontaro

Just as a side note, comment to the Firestarter opener.
If you get a Firestarter proc, would this rotation be stronger?
(Starting oGCDs at the same place) F1 > F3 > F4 > F4 > F1 (get proc) > F4 > F3p > Swift > F4 > Convert > F4 > F4 > B3.

Difference to the one in Aikaal's post is that you use Swift for F4 and push F3p one GCD forward. With Ley Lines up, F4x3 is fast enough so you definitely won't drop AF3 to cast B3, so there's no mana loss there.
This only works with the proc since you won't be able to cast F4x4 without dropping AF3.

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I feel like you wouldn't have enough MP to cast B4 as you're casting your beginning F3 at increased MP cost (as you usually end up with just enough to cast it or Thunder) and adding a full spell might make the Enochian timer too tight even with the supposed "buff" that hasn't been confirmed in writing.

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Originally Posted by Zhexos

Greetings,

We understand that machinists feel the timing that certain actions flash when triggered by another doesn't feel as fluid when compared to other jobs. In Patch 3.2, we're planning to address this by adjusting the timing of the icon flash for certain actions.

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Could this be related to BLM things in the live letter applying on cast finish rather than spell landing? From MCH thread.

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Originally Posted by FunkyBunch

I feel like you wouldn't have enough MP to cast B4 as you're casting your beginning F3 at increased MP cost (as you usually end up with just enough to cast it or Thunder) and adding a full spell might make the Enochian timer too tight even with the supposed "buff" that hasn't been confirmed in writing.

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This rotation has nothing to do with 3.2, it's presently applicable to the current Sharpcast F1 opener.

Im having trouble wrapping my head around the discussion.

Are we saying that its better (no sharp cast available) to f3-f4x4? Instead of f3-f4x2 f1 f4x2-b3?

I can see it being faster but what im not seeing is the supposed mp ticks unless thats in UI only?

And regarding the 6 opener

Mine is basically

Sharp-ley-f3-enoch-f1-rage-f4x3-f3p-convert-f4x3-b3-t1-b4.

I was told by a blm in thordan with a Gordian staff that he can do 6 fire f4 opener without swift cast, I can too unless hes talking about something else or a different opener or main combo?

Anyone shed light on these issues?

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Originally Posted by Psycofang

Im having trouble wrapping my head around the discussion.

Are we saying that its better (no sharp cast available) to f3-f4x4? Instead of f3-f4x2 f1 f4x2-b3?

I can see it being faster but what im not seeing is the supposed mp ticks unless thats in UI only?

And regarding the 6 opener

Mine is basically

Sharp-ley-f3-enoch-f1-rage-f4x3-f3p-convert-f4x3-b3-t1-b4.

I was told by a blm in thordan with a Gordian staff that he can do 6 fire f4 opener without swift cast, I can too unless hes talking about something else or a different opener or main combo?

Anyone shed light on these issues?

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The F3 > F4 F4 F4 F4 is just an educated speculation on what might come of the 12s AF buff.

Swiftcast is used in the opener you quoted for both a slight speed boost on one of the F4s, and for mobility purposes (F1 F4 F4 F4 F3P F4 F4 F4 is a completely mobile window, perfect for some openers). Saving Swiftcast is fine if you have a reason to, you don't really lose much, but most current fights you use the F3 opener you want that part mobile anyway.

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Originally Posted by Sleigh

(F1 F4 F4 F4 F3P F4 F4 F4 is a completely mobile window, perfect for some openers)

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The bolded part lines up perfectly for things like the meteors in Thordan and the first Protean in A3S, making you lose no DPS time at all in your opener.

From the guide I'm a bit unclear on exactly what to use sharpcast on. Is it always a gain to use it on thunder 1 instead of fire 1?