Removing elemental nukes from WHM

White mage stepped out of the kitchen, and the black mage wants it's sammich. The unfortunate part of it is, white mage took half of it.

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Originally Posted by Kinseykinz

You post # 12
Did people get snippy and snarky with you? Sure, sure they did. But, don't even try to pretend you have been polite to people. Because of all the posters and postings in this thread, you are the only person consistantly being a jerk about it. Simply because not everyone sees it YOUR way.

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Quite a hypocritical post, and yet another derail.

If I said "Pineapples are too sweet", you would probably take offence to it if you like pineapple.

If you review the quotes above, you will notice that each is in response to a "snarky" comment directed at me, and my opinion. It is quite easy to make any comment I say seem worse then it is. 90% of the quotes you snipped barely even scratch the surface of being personally offensive or let alone warrant direct name calling.

Also for your information: correcting grammar and semantics is indeed an attempt at offending someone's intelligence.

Without further derailing, I am really looking forward to your opinion on my last post regarding the topic in the OP.

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Originally Posted by Altena

Nice, a personal attack.

I am a jerk because my opinions aren't yours by the sounds of it, as I have done nothing apart from disagree with the points you have attempted to make.

Playing BLM in content because it is optimal, is a bearable reason to play it, despite it being a boring job.
Is there something wrong with improving a boring job? It is pretty widely known to be boring. A lot of people think the job is boring, and facerollingly easy to play.

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If you find spamming thunder nukes boring then i doubt you will be satisfied with having the other nukes either. As they are likely to just be used in the same way, thunder weak mob, spam thunder, stone weak mob spam stone. The mechanics don't change at all if anything you get more intrenched in the boring mechanics you say are boring. You can remedy this a little by adding spells that have utility uses (uses no good for spamming) effective on end game bosses. Preferably not on Black Mage's elemental nukes also.....

So for example what would help Black Mage switch things up in a fight would be spells like:

Bio~ Non elemental/Poison Elemental Nuke with Poison/Sap add effect.
Stun~ Stuns the enemy.
Blind~ Blinds the enemy.
Poison~ Poison's the enemy.
Curse~ Reduces the enemies attack stat.
Toad~ Turns the foe into a useless toad.
Break~ Petrifies the enemy.

All these could break the elemental nuke spam cycle, though i won't argue how broken they could be depending how they were implemented. I'd argue Black Mage should be more powerful, but take more hate because the way things are now Black Mage can sit in the background spamming nukes with little skill needed to evade aggro. Not helped by them having access to archer -emnity skills and freeze in its current form.

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Originally Posted by Alaltus

If you find spamming thunder nukes boring then i doubt you will be satisfied with having the other nukes either. As they are likely to just be used in the same way, thunder weak mob, spam thunder, stone weak mob spam stone. The mechanics don't change at all if anything you get more intrenched in the boring mechanics you say are boring. You can remedy this a little by adding spells that have utility uses (uses no good for spamming) effective on end game bosses. Preferably not on Black Mage's elemental nukes also.....

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This is a point many of us, including myself have been trying to make...but she won't listen to that. Having more spells makes it 'magically' better.

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Originally Posted by Alaltus

So for example what would help Black Mage switch things up in a fight would be spells like:

Bio~ Non elemental/Poison Elemental Nuke with Poison/Sap add effect.
Stun~ Stuns the enemy.
Blind~ Blinds the enemy.
Poison~ Poison's the enemy.
Curse~ Reduces the enemies attack stat.
Toad~ Turns the foe into a useless toad.
Break~ Petrifies the enemy.

All these could break the elemental nuke spam cycle, though i won't argue how broken they could be depending how they were implemented. I'd argue Black Mage should be more powerful, but take more hate because the way things are now Black Mage can sit in the background spamming nukes with little skill needed to evade aggro. Not helped by them having access to archer -emnity skills and freeze in its current form.

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All great ideas which probably would make the job more dynamic to play...but these skills (or at least dots/debuffs) have been slotted for Arcanist/Summoner to use.

I'd hate to point to current in-game mechanics and lore again as part of the reason Black Mage is limited to what it is...because I've been told several times 'screw all that, they can rewrite the whole game'...but once again, the lore and current game mechanics matter.

The only thing they maybe could do to change BLM from a 'park and bark' caster is to have spell potency changed based upon how close the mage is to the mob. It changes nothing about what spells they have, but does in fact require more skill, timing and strategy to play. It also ends one of the other DD's griefs that Black Mage tends to be overused due to it being able to avoid most damage. Personally, I don't know that this would be a good battle mechanic in the long-haul but it is the only thing I think you could viably do that wouldn't require screwing up so many other things in the game that work well.


But, Alaltus is absolutely right, having more DDspells by themselves, any DD spells (stone/aero/water/umbral) won't overall change the 'spam spell x' feel of the job. Something needs to change in HOW you cast and the mechanics behind the spells you do have, in order to add more drama.

The elemental strength/weakness thing is even a different topic behind that and all I can say is Black Mage doesn't need all these spells to be effective as long as SE makes sure to include them in battles even if they decide to allow for mobs resistant to their magic. We've already had examples of this type of battle with Garuda by the way. Black Mages couldn't harm 1 of the 2 sister spawns or the plumes. But were great for burning down Garuda. So instead of asking for spells from the CNJ tree you don't really need, maybe instead ask SE or for ideas to counteract any possible battles wherein Black Mage might be less-needed due to any time of Magic Resistance (there are potential Mobs that just don't take damage from magic period).

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Currently CNJ>WHM loses practically nothing, but gains some very potent healing (ie main healer).

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This is because there are only 2 disciplines of magic atm. Think about it...WHM can only use PGL and GLA abilities; however, CNJ can use all class abilities. When Yoshi and the gang add more mage classes, that feature a wider array of abilities and spells, that is when the classes will truly shine.

We are getting a arcanist in 2.0; so that will definitely help boost CNJ. If I am correct, arcanist not only uses carby, but debuffs mobs as well. I doubt carby will be a transferable spell, but the debuffs will probably transfer; and WHM will see none of them due to the job restrictions.

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Originally Posted by MuCephei

This is because there are only 2 disciplines of magic atm. Think about it...WHM can only use PGL and GLA abilities; however, CNJ can use all class abilities. When Yoshi and the gang add more mage classes, that feature a wider array of abilities and spells, that is when the classes will truly shine.

We are getting a arcanist in 2.0; so that will definitely help boost CNJ. If I am correct, arcanist not only uses carby, but debuffs mobs as well. I doubt carby will be a transferable spell, but the debuffs will probably transfer; and WHM will see none of them due to the job restrictions.

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Summoner cannot even use Carby irc.

I'm interested to see how they handle the job/class restrictions.

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Originally Posted by Altena

Because soloing with Light magic would be sooooo much slower then Aero/Stone

*facepalm*.

Why do so many people get the impression that the intention is to remove WHM's source of damage when 90% of my posts are basically saying that WHM would not lose any form of damage capabilities if they were simply .dat swapped and given different names. . . .

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Because my post was totally directed at you *facepalm*.

There are people in this thread who want WHM to not be able to cast damage spells at all. That is who this post is directed at. Of course, another poster above pointed out how rude you've been in this thread and how you're not really getting the context of other people's posts.

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Summoner cannot even use Carby irc.

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Incorrect. All jobs get all the abilities of the class they're based on.

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I'm interested to see how they handle the job/class restrictions.

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Hopefully, the restrictions will enable CNJ, and the other classes, to excel at...something. There is absolutely no excuse for classes being completely abandoned in favor of jobs for ALL content. Why should we even have classes if there is no use for them, other than leveling?

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

Incorrect. All jobs get all the abilities of the class they're based on.

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In the past yes, but I'm pretty sure there was a dev post saying that summoner will not get Carby - which means they are introducing the mechanic that not all class spells go to the job owner.

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Originally Posted by MuCephei

Hopefully, the restrictions will enable CNJ, and the other classes, to excel at...something. There is absolutely no excuse for classes being completely abandoned in favor of jobs for ALL content. Why should we even have classes if there is no use for them, other than leveling?

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I believe this was the point yes, to make it so classes have their own unique distinctions (and then perhaps allowing jobs to have more of one too..) But I cant remember "when" I heard that so I'd be finding a needle in a stack of needles to find the quote lol.

Edit: nevermind google magic and I found the needle - look below :P

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Originally Posted by TenraiNagi

I would like to put a simple translation I made of the talk show that happened during the Final Fantasy 25th event in Japan. It's mostly bullet points of the most important things that were said, and some of their conversations! I know that it would be translated and posted, but I also know that it would take some time... ^^

This is not a perfect translation. So please don't hold it against me if I have mistranslated something...
Ok let's start:

Server and Engine

• The lighting system is very advanced and allows for complex lighting effects, not only during the day but at night and in dungeons as well.
• It was very challenging to port FFXIV:ARR to the PS3 due to low memory issues, but they did their best to optimize it the best way possible.
• Load times and character movements are real time now, and the responsiveness of the game to the player’s actions has been improved a lot.
• Multi Data centers: At the moment, there is only one data center in Japan, and all players are connected to it. Now they are making more data centers around the world to improve the server response. Players will still be able to play with everyone regardless of regions. This is just for the convenience of players not in Japan.
• More flexible world transfers
• Addition of communication support function
• The engine can tolerate the new PvP design (It’s not forcefully done)
• The servers can handle more players in one place as compared to before (was 400-500 players at a time, now around 1000). And for the mobs, it could handle 600mobs at a time and now it’s up to 2000. This will greatly affect the player’s experience, so they’re really happy about it.

Quests and Main quests

• A great number of quests have been added. The aim of these quests is to level, explore the world, story progression among other things.

Host: These quests are all good for your first class/ job, but what about your second and third? What if you ran out of quests?
Yoshi-p: Of course we are going to provide a large number of quests. But beside that we will keep on adding more, and there are other still unannounced contents, and others to be enjoyed with the public, such as NM’s, they are all being prepared. I hope that players don’t stay in one place doing the same things, but would rather they try many different contents and level in the process.
Host: But what about people who are already level 50?
Yoshi-p: They can look forward to the high level content we announced, and there are still some unannounced contents, such as raids, and new classes, chocobo raising, and other stuff. The amount of instanced dungeons is going to increase. There is going to be a level limit, but since we are adding level sync, which will allow level 50 players to go down to the required level of the content, players can group up with new players and do content together. And of course many high level dungeons are going to be added so please look forward to them.

• For the main quests; it’s the same world but different. Since it’s now going through the 7th Umbral Era, and with the new game system, these have to be reflected in the game, and as a result it became completely different.
• Parley has been taken out of the main quests (not sure about this one).
• The general progression of main quests is, you do a couple of quests then fight a strong boss to be able to continue with your story. This will add a true sense of progression of RPG games. And with level sync this is going to improve the experience for all the players. Unlike currently in the game when people challenge the “weak” ifrit, it’s as if watching a cutscene and there is no actuall fight.
• A quest progression system has been added. And there is an “objectives” tab to make it easier to track you progression through these quests.

Sound and Music

• Quest cutscenes will have Japanese VO not only English. The players will be able to change the audio language to any of the languages. The languages supported are Japanese, English, French and German.
• The way music plays is going to change.

Battle

• The first thing you’re going to notice when you try out the battle system is the tempo, and how speedy it got.
• Handling TP is going to change. In the current version the player had to fight to generate TP, but it changed to be similar to MP where you start the battle with full TP. The main reason to make it that way was due to PvP.
• We have 3 types of actions: abilities, weapon skills, and magic. Currently abilities have a recast timer on them, while weapon skills and magic have TP and MP requirements respectively along with an added recast timer. However, in FFXIV:ARR the abilities will stay the same, while the weapon skills and magic will only require TP or MP. Obviously this will affect the speed of battle greatly.
• Combos as well have been modified. Since in PvP it is going to be very difficult with the positioning requirements, players will feel like they are being punished for doing combos. So only the first move will require positioning (not sure about magic) while the rest of the combo will only require TP/ MP to be executed.
• The parameters and stats and their formulas have been changed to be much simpler to understand. But still it would be very interesting so please look forward to it.

Fan Questions
Host: How will we fight together with our chocobo’s?
Yoshi-p: You call it, a menu appears, select “fight together”. That’s it.
Host: what about colors?
Yoshi-p: We are thinking about various things.
Host: We can jump now! But what about flying and swimming?
Yoshi-p: I am more towards flying at the moment. Since it’s a Final Fantasy, and having airships and going to the skies sounds like a really nice idea to me. But this is all too soon to talk about.
Host: Other than meteor what can we expect as limit breaks?
Yoshi-p: Tifa’s… Tifa’s… Tifa’s…
Host: Will Excalibur and Masamune appear as weapons?
Yoshi-p: Of course I’m thinking of addind Excalibur when the time is right, but Masamune will come when the Samurai or Ninja jobs are introduced to the game.

Arcanist and Summoner
It’s the same as what I posted in the relevant thread regarding both of them, but I’ll just add the little comments and teases they made.

• Please look forward to the auto-attack motion. (Throws the book?)
• The players will be able to craft the books and they will have recipes. The class that crafts them is of course… can’t tell right now.
• Summoners will not have carbuncle as a pet, but they’ll be using the primals as their source of power. However, not the primals themselves but they’ll use only a part of a primals strength. “A pet that the primals power dwells in” are Matsui’s exact words if I wasn’t mistaken.
• The summoners will be able to borrow the power of 4 primals (this is what is planned till now, and could be expanded later on). The ones that are confirmed right now are Ifrit, and Garuda.

Thank you very much and hope you enjoyed it :D

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Ah here it is.