Are role actions a nerf?

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Originally Posted by Ama_Hamada

Fire IV is optional and situational too, but I do not see them putting that on the role list

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That is a ridiculous notion and a false equivalency. Fire IV is embedded deep into the rotation.

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Yeah Ill remember that when I am tanking as SMN because provoke is not needed.

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In dungeon content, provoke really isn't needed. If you are doing your job properly, you're holding hate - and if anyone snags it away, you're not going to provoke to get it back (cuz you'll just instantly lose it again), you're going to use your hate generation. That said, using a provoke + shield lob would be effective as well. If that is how you choose to do it, then you can slot in your provoke. It doesn't mean that it is required by any means though, just that it's your preference to use it that way.

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Originally Posted by Ama_Hamada

I am being realistic, my last expert i did was 34 mins because people did not know how to dps.

2 friends doing relic runs, 2/4 dungons had both DPS gearing incorrectly, ilevel doging the weapon slot and wearing wrong stats for the right side on the same day, back to back runs. You want proof why this is an issue? look at SB changes, trying to lower the skill gap and making the right match your main stat. Even SE "have a low opinion of fellow players"

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This is all irrelevant. Players doing poor DPS or wearing incorrect gear isn't effected or solved by the cross role skill system. That said, luckily in SB, accessories are job-locked.

Whose to say the terrible players would even use the skills if it wasn't optional? Tanks already don't use provoke and healers already don't esuna debuffs. They're just bad players, and nothing will save them.

Also discussing abilities before a trial would be in the same discussion as to what the general game plan for the fight entails.

If you're going through a dungeon, just take the core Cross Role Actions.

Also, the other reason accessories are job based now is because Tenacity/Direct hit/Piety are becoming Tank/Dps/Healer only substats now.

Personally i was a bit disappointed on how they went about it as they should have made some abilities always avaible to all jobs of the same role, like provoke, protect and esuna and having to chose 5 of 10 seems a bit restrictive, but as someppl have said now you have alternatives because, let's be frank all jobs had 5 skill that they choose and never changed (well most fo the times)now you have a choice albeit in 8 man parties, but we'll see I think they removed the going to CD when changing skills outside of sanctuaries so I'll wait SB before passing a true judgement

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Originally Posted by bswpayton

And let the arguments began on we are in cutters cry wth didnt u esuna my debuff oh i didnt have it, start of a dungeon everyone waiting on protect oh i dont have that one, yea that doesnt sound fun to me at all. I like my hot bars to stay the same I get into the game not settin up my hot bars for every instance

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He should have it, that is the whole point of roll skills versus cross-class skills. Just explain it to him and wait some secs until he activated it.

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Originally Posted by Kaurie

That is a ridiculous notion and a false equivalency. Fire IV is

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Provoke is needed i personally when im tankin like to tank in my ot stance and i use it just to stay on top even if im not losing argo i will provoke just in case i like that option so i dont have to switch back to shield oath and can stay in sword, or darkside or, and it also allows me not to have to use my argo combo so to me provoke is a must at all times

@Felis

hmm have u ever done potd, and said hey guys i need to fix my hot bars guess what happens everyone leaves nobody wants to wait , this game is not full of patient people, I speed run low level dungeons like sathasha , copper bell mines, Im not tryin to wait on some healer to change their abilities around. I dont expect anyone to wait on me to change mine around either thats the whole point everyone is making its an inconvenience. This game is all about speed how fast can i get this done , how many things can i cheese to make this go by faster, and waiting on someone to fix their hotbars is not something im tryin to wait on in every dungeon run or trial roulette or anything else

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Originally Posted by bswpayton

Provoke is needed i personally when im tankin like to tank in my ot stance and i use it just to stay on top even if im not losing argo i will provoke just in case

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Provoke won't give you any threat if you already have agro. It puts you 1 arbitrary point of threat above the person who currently has the monsters attention, which if you are not losing agro means you have agro which means it did nothing.

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Originally Posted by Greedalox

Provoke won't give you any threat if you already have agro. It puts you 1 arbitrary point of threat above the person who currently has the monsters attention, which if you are not losing agro means you have agro which means it did nothing.

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either way just in case for security reasons I still want to have it , because if some dps gets some good crits in or something anything can happen if ur not in tank stance, so its a must for me

And also alot of dps like to not aoe and focus in on one target ninjas, monks, dragoons dont even act like they know what an aoe is so its also good for that as well

@Aramina
Its a me problem for not wanting to spend 30 in a dungeon when i dont have to, that I dont wana pull three adds when I know I can pull more no thats just how you should play. Any time wasted is a waste of time and waiting on people to fix their hot bars is a waste of time that wasnt an issue before because your cross class skills essentially stay the same and thats what I prefer. I wouldn't want to change out my main abilities would I so why would I want to switch out the cross ones? If I wana play a game with interactive skills Id be playing one but I like this one because my skills stay the same, I play every job in the game and I dont want to have to learn 60 different cross role skills for all 15 jobs to know what fits where.

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Originally Posted by bswpayton

hmm have u ever done potd, and said hey guys i need to fix my hot bars guess what happens everyone leaves nobody wants to wait ,

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Do you need someone to stay and hold your hand? There is no reason (on lower floors) that people need to wait. I have changed them before a boss though because I got a new skill (and they did wait), or if you are on a higher floor and they run off and something bad happens that's on them. As for you wanting to speedrun and not wait for people to change? That's a you problem not a system problem.

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Originally Posted by Rysir

I dont see the issue at all, its a pick what you need system over the pick whats absolute best without other options system we have now.

It is easily an improvement since we actually have choice like ACTUALLY do and make loadouts for each encounter which we could have done with cross class skills if most of the cross class abilities were not trash.

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If you're bringing esuna to every fight that needs it and not bringing it to fights that don't, you're not really the one making the choice, the battle designer is. There's no benefit to having esuna in a fight where there's nothing to cleanse so it doesn't make sense putting it in a list of optional skills, it would never be the right choice for those fights. They're only setting people up to fail and bring esuna when they don't need it or forget esuna when they do need it. The only "positive" is entirely manufactured by this new system, that you get to bring a different skill. But if this system didn't exist and you just got esuna the way you do now you would still gain the benefit of also being able to bring other skills. Even on the subject of "button bloat", if you want to swap things in and out of your hotbars as needed you can already do that. You can already take esuna off your hotbar and put something else there if you don't need it. The whole role abilities system provides zero actual benefits, only imaginary benefits to people desperate for some kind of pretend choice.

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Originally Posted by Fawkes

Snip.

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If we're speaking on a technicality level, the only debuff that absolutely 100% needs to be cleansed by the healers, that would be doom. Every other debuff either had alternative ways of being cleansed (Keepers Paean, antidotes, spine drops, etc) or can be worked through at a minimal dps loss (Poison, Paralysis on non casters, sleep, etc). I'm pretty guilty of ignoring every debuff that isn't doom because "MUH DEEPS".