It's time to hire dedicated Tank an Healer devs!

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Originally Posted by Floortank

What you're asking for is incoherent.

Their kits are fantastically well designed. For healing.

What do you want them to do, add an open heart surgery mechanic to each healing job? There's only one or two ways to represent waving your hands and restoring numbers. There's HUNDREDS of martial arts to derive fighting styles from. Healing with magic only exists in fantasy and will only take the forms that have any coherence.

A healer that heals by punching is incoherent, not only because of the punching, but because every healer in this game has to be a ranged caster and cannot be a melee DPS. Healers can't be melee DPS because SE would have to rebuild all the content in the entire game around such a concept. In the game right now, there are enemy mechanics that only target healers and would not work if the healers were up front, such as the mechanics in Alexander that spread from the healer and wipe the party if they stand too close.

So yeah, your request is incoherent.

Healer is great at healing people, and needed most when people take damage. This is not a flaw. It's the design. You just sound like you don't like playing healer.

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really....incoherent....?
you talk about a healer that heals while being in melee range is incoherent then what about a caster that can be a melee.... sound stupid right?
tell that to red mages that have melee combos or rune knights that exist in ff games or sword mages that exist in other games.

i guess if a melee that can heal others still sound stupid then i will give you a more accurate example: look at the game and tell it to all the paladins that actually heal others while being tanks and not just dps that they are incoherent design.

healer is great at healing people true but your "healxity" is so dominant you fail to understand what every vet healer has learned by now and perhaps see his character differently then you.

casual content is not a hard hitting content that you can fail every second, get hit every second or even die when played right, in fact with self sustain abilities each of the other jobs have, your role might even be redundant cause if the content were to be played as the devs would want it then you would have tanks pulling 1 group of mobs that barely tickle a geared tank each time.
combine the fact that the game has 80 soon to be 90 levels to actually learn your role, hack it even more then enough for others to learn their jobs to play more then decent in content and you think that during all that time to not know your spells and kits is fine?

the healer fantasy is not wishing your party will be bad, its the opposite, you exist so the chances will go up. you heal to save the day, you buff/debuff/dps so that you will increase the chances to clear. you are not some kind of heal slave, your only job is not just be there to heal. we are there to support as well, we buff people to increase productivity, we dps to take the burden off the team.
the rewards for actually caring about your party can not be just 1 measly dps spell you spam none stop and having a boring time through the run, you should not wish for a bad party just so you can have fun its bad design.

healers don't need a dps rotation but you got 3 soon to be 4 healers that need to cater to different people, one having a dps rotation can be ok, another being a dot focus instead of raw damage is ok, one having 1 button but have lots of ogcd/buffs to give/do after each gcd is great, you know why cause they answer to other people preferences. with great design they actually cater to all and what the veteran will tell you is that pressing more then 1 button is not forced, its encouraged. no one forces healers to press the button but right now you will be more seemed like a lazy player if you don't cause you have only 1 button you are allowed to press when you do not heal considering your a max level 80 healer, in fact you will be seen more of an afker or leecher then a party member if you just spam heals when not needed.

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Originally Posted by CrimsonGunner

really....incoherent....?
you talk about a healer that heals while being in melee range is incoherent then what about a caster that can be a melee.... sound stupid right?
tell that to red mages that have melee combos or rune knights that exist in ff games or sword mages that exist in other games.

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DPS makes sense. There's a lot of ways to stab and cast damaging spells. Hundreds of ways! I explained this in my last post.

Your request is incoherent because there's not a hundred ways to represent healing. You wave your hands, numbers get restored. That's all any healing effect will ever be.

We won't see a melee DPS who heals people by punching because it's not only incoherent as a concept, but also because they're not going to redesign the entire game around some other idea of what a healer might be. Whatever iteration of a healer comes out will always be a character wearing "Healing" sets, standing at range, waving their hands to restore HP numbers.

There might be some variation in this, like Sage shooting energy beams that also restore HP numbers with some sort of magical doohickey, but it's never going to get very far from this because that's the definition of healing in most RPGs. Restoring numbers by waving your hands.

You can have dozens of non healer Jobs because there are *hundreds* of real life types of combats, fictional or actual, to base them on. That includes all the myriad spells in fantasy literature that do damage.

While healing, no matter how you dress it up, is still "wave hands, restore numbers," a totally passive activity.

DPS = rhythmic, proactive, dictates its own pace, has logic set by the fighting style the class draws on.

Healer = completely passive, all healing is the same rhythm, set completely to the script in the fight, with the only variation being when people screw up when they aren't supposed to.

Yes, your requests are incoherent and none of you sound like you actually enjoy playing healer.

Also, dude on the previous page who said I never healed in Heavensward and Stormblood? Yeah I did. I've been playing this game since the 1.0 beta in 2010.

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Originally Posted by Floortank

DPS makes sense. There's a lot of ways to stab and cast damaging spells. Hundreds of ways! I explained this in my last post.

Your request is incoherent because there's not a hundred ways to represent healing. You wave your hands, numbers get restored.

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????

You lack imagination.

At the end of the day, both roles press a button and numbers happen. If there are hundreds of ways to make a bar go down, then there are hundreds of ways to make a bar go up. What are you talking about. If Sage can heal while dealing damage, you can perfectly imagine a melee healer doing the same (Hell, the concept of Mistweaver monk in WoW is just that.) It's not an impossible concept nor it is incoherent. Healer design in FFXIV is formulaic, so far, they could dare to shake things up.

Now, about healing being a passive activity as opposed to damaging being an active one, maybe. Not in all the cases.

Proactive healing is a thing, its a gameplay style that suits jobs with shields where you anticipate damage, anticipate mechanics to make the most of your shielding spells.

Currently this divide of reactive vs proactive seems to be what SE is trying to implement with the Pure vs Shield design. So your assessment of healing being a passive activity is only barely right. This doesn't mean a healer must be designed around being a ranged spellcaster.

Also note that you said healer gameplay is based around acting/reacting to damage. Guess what, damage is so sparce and happens so seldomly and healers have such potent tools at their disposal, the time a healer has to devote to actually healing is minimal compared to the time they can spend casting their damaging spells. That's the way the game is designed and the main complaint of healers at the moment.

You say we healers don't enjoy healing and you're goddam right: As they are now, Healer jobs barely have to heal and are stuck spamming their extremely boring 1 button rotation for most of their fights. There is no other avenue for a healer to support their team when healing isn't needed and that gets dull very very quickly.

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Originally Posted by Floortank

Their kits are fantastically well designed. For healing.

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Not really... WHM is a basic MMO healer kit copy and pasted about 3 times; SCH has Indom, Crit'lo, and Excog, the rest is clunky if not in out-right conflict with itself; AST is decent, but the cards are basically busy work and felt much more satisfying when they had varied effects that could be manipulated / extended.

Seriously, if you think FFXIV healers in their current state are at all enjoyable to play then I'm guessing your experience with healing in MMOs is extremely limited, because having an enjoyable 'downtime' kit aside, even MMOs 15 years ago had more interesting, engaging, and enjoyable healer designs.

Edit: Oh, and for any kit to even be considered 'well designed' (IMO) it needs to reflect the design of the content; which in FFXIV is a heavy focus on DPS with limited, predictable, and mostly avoidable incoming damage. DPS kits reflect this, having (mostly) been stripped of 'useless' utilities; Tank kits reflect this, having been stripped of 'enmity' combos in favor of maximum DPS rotations; Healer kits have unfortunately gone in the opposite direction, having been stripped of most damage and interesting utility abilities in favour of another copy of Cure II :/

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Originally Posted by Floortank

Healer = completely passive, all healing is the same rhythm, set completely to the script in the fight, with the only variation being when people screw up when they aren't supposed to.
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This whole comment made me sad…
You never played any of the many MMORPGs where healers would heal with electric guitars, canons, bombs, blunt weapons, swords, spears or weapons that were truly fantasy weapons like what SGE is coming out with? Just reminded me that there’s a lot folk out there that only played like two games or whole lot of traditional games. Just missing out…

But if you enjoy the current healers then that’s your opinion to have. But it’s like a comment I can’t like enough on the healer forums which is basically healers currently don’t reflect the game they’re made for. If we had content that needed this amount of heals then it would make sense but we don’t… healer mains are not asking to be turned into DPS jobs, just want a kit that makes sense. In past MMO and new games, you can tell developers spent a lot of time making sure even healer mains will have fun in their games.

Even this game had a team that understood this… but not anymore for some reason…

That's precisely the main issue: Healing isn't treated like a role people willingly chose, it's treated like a mandatory raid/dungeon spot that some "unlucky" players have to fill

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

Healers not having many DPS abilities is intentional because some healers like to just heal and SE wants to support their freedom to focus on healing. They don't want to pressure them into doing damage when that isn't the role they chose.

Tanks lacking some of the DPS complexity of a DPS is intentional because in raid content, tanks have a lot of things to focus on including boss positioning and repositioning, keeping space for DPS positionals, protecting the party with party mitigation, tank swaps and tank busters and a lot of tank-specific mechanics or non-tank mechanics that are dumped on the tanks so DPS don't have to do them. They are also doing a lot of the mechanics the rest of the party is doing.

I've played tanks for many years and tanks are currently in a really good place and I don't see the problem with them at all. They are really fun in raid content and really fun to do big pulls with in dungeons.

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If healers were supposed to focus on healing, content would actually require healing. But SE has said they aren't going to do that because it would put too much pressure on healers. So if we're never going to have to heal anything, they should add more DPS abilities and raise the skill ceiling through damage. But oddly, they keep giving us more and more powerful healing abilities but nothing to use them on, so all they do is let us cast an extra glare in a fight, which is very underwhelming.

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Originally Posted by Floortank

Snip.

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Hahahahaha, what is this?

There are 5 absolute minimum ways to heal someone's health; draining health/lifesteal, direct healing, regeneration, sacrificing your own health and time reversal. (Shields and Barriers aren't healing so I'm not listing them as healing). Then if you have a modicum of imagination those can all branch out into near endless variations. The devs for this game have just chosen to be lazy and pick direct healing and regeneration and continue being lazy by sticking to the exact same paradigm of a Cure, Cure 2, Medica and Medica 2 clone. Scholar and Sage are almost exact identical copies just like WHM and Astro.

Could have had a healer that relies solely on regens and bursts them for spot healing. Could have had a healer that plays like DRK using huge amounts of MP to heal and gaining MP back by playing the job well, as sacrificing HP can't work in this game. Could have had a healer whose main mechanic is putting down objects and their abilities and heals radiate from those objects. Could have had a healer that shoots you with healing bullets. Could have had a healer that mixes potions. But what do we have? White Mage clone 1, 2 and 3. Sage=/=Lifesteal as Kardia is a flat potency (and is basically Fairy Embrace, because we all know every healer in this game must play the exact same way as each other) and that job is still just direct healing with a comically huge arsenal of regens for being labeled as a "shield healer". Astrologian IS getting something that resembles "time reversal" healing with Macrocosmos though so we can applaud them for that.

A melee healer can absolutely work as any competent healer with a brain never stands more than 15 meters from the boss anyway and any competent party member with a brain never stands 15 meters from the healer. And a melee healer would still work even though they're stuck in healer gear with lowered physical defense, compared to melee DPS's higher physical defense (Dragoon has the highest physical defense out of all the melees and they still die a lot making high defense pretty moot), as all mechanics have to deal equal damage to all roles anyway. You're usually better and safer off being right next to the mob/boss anyway as you can just move behind the boss to avoid linear AoEs they use and do the same for cone AoEs.

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Originally Posted by Acidblood

Seriously, if you think FFXIV healers in their current state are at all enjoyable to play then I'm guessing your experience with healing in MMOs is extremely limited, because having an enjoyable 'downtime' kit aside, even MMOs 15 years ago had more interesting, engaging, and enjoyable healer designs.

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I'm soooooo glad you're here to speak as the one single voice for every healer player in this game. We would all he soooooo incredibly silent without you stating the thing that is on every single healer player's mind right now.

/s ofc if it wasnt already clear.