Tactful ways to inform people that they're playing badly?

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Originally Posted by monk-dps

The funny thing about google is that sometimes, not all but sometimes you can get different results based on your info google has. I don't have hard core facts on it but there have been times me and someone else googled the same thing only to be met with different results. But I think that's based on ADs and what info google has tracked for you/of you. For guides on this game you do come up with alot of -old- advice, but the actual best way is to search on reddit and or various discords. Because yeah google isn't perfect and while you can get up to date info, there are times you get 4.0 guides for classes in 5.0. It happened to me on monk so I know you're not wrong.

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Are you saying that when you google "FF14 Bunny Girl", you're not all getting porn and playboy related results with nothing to do with FF14? :)

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Originally Posted by Valderen

Are you saying that when you google "FF14 Bunny Girl", you're not all getting porn and playboy related results with nothing to do with FF14? :)

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I'm going to google that and see what shows up on my phone... one second. - pulls out phone to google...- lol. Nope.. I just got alot of pictures of vieras ingame in their default gear. Wish I could screencap this but I'm on a PS4 so no go.

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Originally Posted by Rilifane

If they're doing the basics right, I'm good.
For tanks that means keeping aggro and picking up stray mobs within a reasonable time, dodging aoes and using def cds. If the tank actives Rampart right before running into a group, it's not optimal but I won't nitpick.
For healers that means keeping the party alive as long as the incoming damage is reasonable, dispell as neccessary, dodge aoes. I don't expect them to heal other's stupidity. If they can, good, but in the end it's up to the party to avoid avoidable damage.
For dps that means using aoe at 3+ mobs and single target for everything below that, dodging aoes and using their own dps buffs, even if timed a bit poorly like Raging Strikes towards the end of a fight.

If someone gets something fundamentally wrong like a RDM constantly hardcasting Impact/ Veraero/ Verthunder, A BLM standing around after MP are drained to wait for Astral Fire to fall off, a DNC not choosing a dance partner at 60+, a SMN not calling his pet, a tank not turning on tank stance even after the first pack of mobs had a field day whacking everyone but the tank, a healer spamming expensive heals without needing to and being out of MP halfway into the fight or trying to single target heal with Medica, I will politely speak up with something like "hey [name], don't you want to dance with me? :( I won't step on your toes, I promise!".
Yes, I've seen all of those. Not regulary but it does happen.

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Some in this thread would call you toxic for expecting the bare minimum of classes that are learned at level 10.

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Originally Posted by Dreakon13

I stand by the fact that "googling" for this game isn't as cut and dry as some are making it out to be. There's a reason why I leveled Maurader to 15 for no reason a few weeks ago thinking I needed it to unlock Dragoon. It wasn't for lack of effort.

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I'm trying to understand how you came to the conclusion that Maurader = Dragoon when the top google results for "FFXIV Maurader" are "Maurader becomes WAR at level 30", "Warrior Guide", and "Maurader leveling Guide"

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Originally Posted by Hash_Browns

I'm trying to understand how you came to the conclusion that Maurader = Dragoon when the top google results for "FFXIV Maurader" are "Maurader becomes WAR at level 30", "Warrior Guide", and "Maurader leveling Guide"

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At one point you needed Lancer at 30 and Marauder at 15 to unlock Dragoon.

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Originally Posted by Dreakon13

At one point you needed Lancer at 30 and Marauder at 15 to unlock Dragoon.

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Ok, I can see where this is coming from, but using a guide from like 2013 when a bunch of other guides from 2017-2019 really doesn't make sense, especially when you consider the fact that the official FFXIV job guide is the second result.

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Originally Posted by Hash_Browns

Ok, I can see where this is coming from, but using a guide from like 2013 when a bunch of other guides from 2017-2019 really doesn't make sense, especially when you consider the fact that the official FFXIV job guide is the second result.

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I jumped through a bunch of results and got both answers, including various forum posts from various sites in various years. So I leveled Marauder to 15 to be safe, and was still playing through early MSQ anyways (as reaching a certain point in that is also a requirement).

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Originally Posted by Dreakon13

I jumped through a bunch of results and got both answers, including various forum posts from various sites in various years. So I leveled Marauder to 15 to be safe, and was still playing through early MSQ anyways (as reaching a certain point in that is also a requirement).

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One thing I can not recommend enough is The Balance if you are new. (https://thebalanceffxiv.com/ - has the discord, and a ton of resources)

They are constantly theory crafting stuff, and will help anyone new to the game all the way to BiS for raiding. The discord has a ton of guides on proper rotations, melds, brackets for stats, when to use moves effectively, etc. Even if they don't have what you are looking for, they have a questions section for each class where a good chunk of people are willing to help out.

Honestly, The Balance is probably the thing I see brought up the most when asking for help, and it's probably the best way to get an up-to-date answer for the game.

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Originally Posted by Hash_Browns

One thing I can not recommend enough is The Balance if you are new. (https://thebalanceffxiv.com/ - has the discord, and a ton of resources)

They are constantly theory crafting stuff, and will help anyone new to the game all the way to BiS for raiding. The discord has a ton of guides on proper rotations, melds, brackets for stats, when to use moves effectively, etc. Even if they don't have what you are looking for, they have a questions section for each class where a good chunk of people are willing to help out.

Honestly, The Balance is probably the thing I see brought up the most when asking for help, and it's probably the best way to get an up-to-date answer for the game.

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I appreciate it, I'm sure it'll come in handy as I get further in the MSQ and unlock more higher end content.

But for the record, I'm actually doing a bit better now than I was two weeks in. ;) Just advocating a little for newer players since misinformation isn't always entirely their fault, and mistakes aren't always a lack of effort or interest in learning.

To answer the question posed directly: you don't.

To elaborate—

There are a couple of really important human being things that many MMOs players don't seem to understand. First, unsolicited advice — no matter how well intentioned or polite it appears — is considered rude behaviour in civil society. Almost every single person who has ever received unsolicited advice recoils at it, most often with a, 'Who does this guy / gal think he / she is telling me what to do!' There are varying levels of response, and some people may take it well, but no one should be surprised when unsolicited advice goes over poorly. Secondly, the only time people learn is when they have made the active decision to learn. These two points are linked together. So, even if your unsolicited advice goes over well (it usually does not), if the person does not have the desire to learn or improve, you're wasting your time. Which is why random groups in North American culture are such a mixed bag. Most people find unsolicited advice rude, and the very few who do not, need to have the desire to learn in order for that input to have any effect (and quite honestly, the lion's share of people who have the desire to learn will just Google how to play better).

So what do you do? As I said, you don't inform people they're playing badly, and you certainly don't offer unsolicited advice on how to improve because of the above. If their play is preventing you from completing your objective, you leave the group and find a new one. Fortunately in this game, most of the content can be done with nearly everyone playing poorly. But, honestly, trying to get people to improve whom you do not know (and so that unsolicited advice will always come across as rude) and likely don't even have a desire to play better, it's a losing battle. We really need to stop doing it. Dating back to the early MMOs, there is so much evidence of this not working. Just find new groups or play solely with people you know. It's the only way out of this rut.

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Originally Posted by Dreakon13

I appreciate it, I'm sure it'll come in handy as I get further in the MSQ and unlock more higher end content.

But for the record, I'm actually doing a bit better now than I was two weeks in. ;) Just advocating a little for newer players since misinformation isn't always entirely their fault, and mistakes aren't always a lack of effort or interest in learning.

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The game itself does a poor job in teaching new players how things regarding classes/jobs work. That's why there a lot of information out there and sometimes it takes a bit to sift through.