Roleplay/Partyfinder Discrepancies & Policy Enforcement by GM's

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Originally Posted by MPK

Can you ban the run sellers now?

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if you ban run sellers then you should ban the club spammers as well :)

So 1000 posts later we get a 2 line generic response that has answered no questions, or even if actions would be taken against the GM's brazen abuse of power? Seems legit. Can you at least offer clarification on if RP casino venues are allowed to advertise in party finder per rules, or are they considered in violation of 3.6 under prohibited policies? I am speaking of course of venues who operate only in Gil and not in RMT

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Originally Posted by go_erp_some_where_else

thats mostly imo because the devs dont want the rp/erp stuff to be so visible
if people start to use fellowships more for rp events and stuff people will flock to it and just use it for that

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Funny, because the devs recently put in a lot of content that helps out with RP (emotes!), included an entirely new system which they stated as being of great use to RPers (paraphrased; fashion accessories), have a tag dedicated to roleplay (type /roleplaying and watch the icon beside your name turn into "RP"), and there's Yoshi-P himself just recently having made a remark about how touched he was with people RPing (ingame festivals!)

People who cry foul at ERPers often have no idea how people do it anyways. Here's a hint: it's not being done publicly, and people often go out of their way to make it -not- obvious what was going on. That's not to say 18+ RP is even strictly about ERP even; groups can age restrict for plenty other reasons as well.

Fellowships are also not viable as they are right now. It's too glacial, too out of the way, and the way they present information is atrocious to fulfil this specific need.

Regarding RP, whether E or S(afe), if it's not your cup of tea just ignore it and do something else, just like how if you want to run e12s and are not interested in e11s, you're like to ignore e11s postings. Not that there's much else in the -Other- tab anyways.

People are getting way too heated when the GM was just doing their job. I hope Wyndallus isn't too affected by this and the witch hunt that resulted. Personally, I always thought this was the result of a miscommunication considering what was going on.

So much chilling out to be done.

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Originally Posted by Zhexos

Greetings, everyone.

Thank you for your patience while we reviewed the situation. In short, there was an internal miscommunication which led to account actions being issued incorrectly. We sincerely apologize for the concern that this has caused the community. There has not been any change to our existing policy, and we want to assure players that our focus is on taking action against inappropriate advertisements/listings.

We will work to ensure proper communication is being done within the GM team and strive to ensure quality service and operations.

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Will there be clarifications as to what is an inappropriate advertisement with examples provided for the community since what has been the norm has apparently changed for at least some venue types? If there is going to be a change in enforcement, your players deserve to have clear and adequate warning as to what is no longer deemed appropriate after giving things a pass for several years.

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Originally Posted by Endeleon

RPers need to move to Fellowship Finder like that GM said. Sorry, but that's where you guys belong. If an ad is up 24/7, it doesn't need to be in party finder. If it's like a flash event, fine. But the fact that there are ads for brothels and clubs 24/7 is way over the line of acceptable behavior. I don't think anyone should get banned, just get their listing removed though.

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If it's an ad up 24/7, it's a problem with spam... Not with role-players using the party finder to find people to play with. And I also feel the people saying that role-players should use fellowship finders... Never actually used fellowships. If they did, they'd understand why that's not really an option. And "that's where you belong" is sort of... Well, not a very charitable thing to say.

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Originally Posted by Julisia

ERP party finders? Please expound upon this, because do you mean a PF that says 18+ Venue at this place or this and that, or did it actually say....hey we're offering ERP ? Please do tell?

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At least on Primal, there were ads for straight-up ERP venues. Like advertising they were ERP venues. They tagged themselves as that. It's why, initially, even I thought it was just one of the brothels whining that they got hit. It wasn't, since the GM decided to go scorched earth which is a problem.

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Originally Posted by EllieDaCat

This is a game children play. That’s how it directly affects people. ERP venues shouldn’t exist in a game children can play. Unless you reeeeeeally like lewding children?

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People need to really drop that "think of the children" argument. The vast majority of people wouldn't have a problem with purely ERP venues getting banned from the party finder. The issue is it wasn't just ERP that was hit.

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Originally Posted by Anslin

So 1000 posts later we get a 2 line generic response that has answered no questions, or even if actions would be taken against the GM's brazen abuse of power? Seems legit. Can you at least offer clarification on if RP casino venues are allowed to advertise in party finder per rules, or are they considered in violation of 3.6 under prohibited policies? I am speaking of course of venues who operate only in Gil and not in RMT

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To be honest, I don't think it's really a case of a GM "brazenly abusing their power". I think it's a case of a GM making a pretty big mistake... But I don't think there was any malice behind it.

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Originally Posted by zeopower6

People are getting way too heated when the GM was just doing their job. I hope Wyndallus isn't too affected by this and the witch hunt that resulted. Personally, I always thought this was the result of a miscommunication considering what was going on.

So much chilling out to be done.

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I'm of two minds on this. On one hand? Yeah, they were just doing their job. Can't fault them entirely if they were acting off miscommunication/misinterpretation. But on the other? It's important for players to be vocal about these kind of issues, especially because of the strike system in place being fairly severe. Discontent needs to be known so that those who were unfairly hit with one can get it removed 'cause that thing follows you forever otherwise.

I'd say that everybody should cool off a little, yeah. But they should still be just as persistent in getting information on whether or not those strikes are getting removed.

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Originally Posted by DreadCrow

If it's an ad up 24/7, it's a problem with spam... Not with role-players using the party finder to find people to play with. And I also feel the people saying that role-players should use fellowship finders... Never actually used fellowships. If they did, they'd understand why that's not really an option. And "that's where you belong" is sort of... Well, not a very charitable thing to say.




At least on Primal, there were ads for straight-up ERP venues. Like advertising they were ERP venues. They tagged themselves as that. It's why, initially, even I thought it was just one of the brothels whining that they got hit. It wasn't, since the GM decided to go scorched earth which is a problem.



People need to really drop that "think of the children" argument. The vast majority of people wouldn't have a problem with purely ERP venues getting banned from the party finder. The issue is it wasn't just ERP that was hit.



To be honest, I don't think it's really a case of a GM "brazenly abusing their power". I think it's a case of a GM making a pretty big mistake... But I don't think there was any malice behind it.

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Did they not use their power to punish people who did nothing wrong? That is what an abuse of power is my dear.

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Originally Posted by zeopower6

People are getting way too heated when the GM was just doing their job. I hope Wyndallus isn't too affected by this and the witch hunt that resulted. Personally, I always thought this was the result of a miscommunication considering what was going on.

So much chilling out to be done.

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The GM was doing their job... But they sort of went a little heavy handed. When the developers of the game flat-out say they create things for role-players and consider it a form of content... I feels like there's at least a misunderstanding. And going heavy handed is a thing that should be addressed. I don't think they should be fired or anything... Just told they went a bit overboard.

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Originally Posted by ZedxKayn

I would hope so, since Yoshida himself stated that sort of venue is unacceptable.

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I think the important points to take from it are:

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Within that user agreement is a clause that prohibits any unacceptable conduct to this end, including behavior that infringes upon laws. Any players who violate those rules will be punished by banning or other penalties

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Because Final Fantasy XIV is a worldwide game, there is the potential for players from many different regions to interact with one another, and we have legal support available to assist us in investigations to this end in many countries.

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My take from it is don't break the law. Cases will be investigated and in the case you violate this, you will be banned or have action taken against your account. Don't break the law and don't be an accomplice in breaking the law. In this case, yes, a brothel can be risky in that you don't know who is attending. But the point is they investigate based on your country, hence the comment about legal support in many countries.

This is a contrast to his comments on mods (especially pornographic ones) & third party tools, which was "don't do it".

If he found it "unacceptable" I think it would be a more blanketed ban. Or heck, a clause in the ToS against obscenity. It sounds more like the acknowledgment it's illegal in some parts of the world and that people need to be found to be within the constraints of the law, which is perfectly reasonable, folks shouldn't be breaking the law.

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Originally Posted by Anslin

Did they not use their power to punish people who did nothing wrong? That is what an abuse of power is my dear.

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For it to be an abuse of power, you'd have to assume that their was malice or that they were doing this solely because they have some vested personal interest in punish the role-playing community... And that's a stretch. At the absolute worst, they were ignorant of the fact that RP and ERP aren't the same thing so they took a heavy-handed approach. More than likely, since someone who just wanted company while fishing also got hit, the GM in question legitimately believes the party finder isn't for social content.

That's still a problem. It needs to be corrected and anyone who got strikes since needs to get the removed. But suggesting there's an abuse of power is a bit of a stretch. It's more likely a lack of real guidance.

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Originally Posted by Saefinn

I think the important points to take from it are:





My take from it is don't break the law. Cases will be investigated and in the case you violate this, you will be banned or have action taken against your account. Don't break the law and don't be an accomplice in breaking the law. In this case, yes, a brothel can be risky in that you don't know who is attending. But the point is they investigate based on your country, hence the comment about legal support in many countries.

This is a contrast to his comments on mods (especially pornographic ones) & third party tools, which was "don't do it".

If he found it "unacceptable" I think it would be a more blanketed ban. Or heck, a clause in the ToS against obscenity. It sounds more like the acknowledgment it's illegal in some parts of the world and that people need to be found to be within the constraints of the law, which is perfectly reasonable, folks shouldn't be breaking the law.

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There is a clause against obscenity in the ToS.

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Originally Posted by ZedxKayn

There is a clause against obscenity in the ToS.

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Incorrect. There's an entry for profanity, not obscenity, and they are not interchangeable either.

But regardless of this, I think the important thing to consider is that whilst they are not against the Terms of Service explicitly, it should be considering you should agree to act accordingly to the audience with which the game is designed for, and that does mean not potentially providing a public outlet in which people can be exposed mature audiences or conversations, consented or otherwise, some people don't understand the gravity of their decisions, that includes this

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Originally Posted by Kaurhz

Incorrect. There's an entry for profanity, not obscenity, and they are not interchangeable either.

But regardless of this, I think the important thing to consider is that whilst they are not against the Terms of Service explicitly, it should be considering you should agree to act accordingly to the audience with which the game is designed for, and that does mean not potentially providing a public outlet in which people can be exposed mature audiences, consented or otherwise, some people don't understand the gravity of their decisions, that includes this

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Then places like the Beehive shouldnt be there with poledancers. Or quests where you strip down to a bikini to tantalize someone for information. Both of those revolve around adult themes. Its either fully ok or it not. The inbetween"ness" of these rules only makes things such as this make no sense

No-one cares if people ERP. I would say a good chunk of the community would just want people who partake in adult activity to do so in private - that includes advertising.

Yoshi-P has this to say in response (I'll quote at the bottom of my post) to being asked about "brothels" and "cybersex" in game. His response is to talk about ToS. I think that's obvious enough of his stance on it all.

I don't want people banned or striked for engaging in ERP, I just think you should be doing it in private.

Normal RPers should be allowed to RP as normal as it's age appropriate for the game.

I'm not going to argue with anyone about this point - it's just how I personally feel.

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Press: What is your official stance on player-run “brothels,” wherein two consenting players have cybersex in exchange for in-game currency? [This was a contentious question, and one that Yoshida seemed blindsided by. -Ed

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Yoshida: First of all, there is a user agreement that all players have to agree to before they can even start playing Final Fantasy XIV. Within that user agreement is a clause that prohibits any unacceptable conduct to this end, including behavior that infringes upon laws. Any players who violate those rules will be punished by banning or other penalties. This applies no matter which end of the exchange a player is on. Everyone who plays Final Fantasy XIV is subject to investigation for violating the terms of service, period. Because Final Fantasy XIV is a worldwide game, there is the potential for players from many different regions to interact with one another, and we have legal support available to assist us in investigations to this end in many countries. If you see someone engaging in this type of behavior, we ask you to report it.

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[Source]

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Originally Posted by IkaraGreydancer

Then places like the Beehive shouldnt be there with poledancers. Or quests where you strip down to a bikini to tantalize someone for information. Both of those revolve around adult themes. Its either fully ok or it not. The inbetween"ness" of these rules only makes things such as this make no sense

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Again, I've told you to stop with the false equivalencies, it isn't even remotely the same thing unless obscene or inappropriate acts are explicitly stated and not suggestive.

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Originally Posted by Kaurhz

Again, I've told you to stop with the false equivalencies, it isn't even remotely the same thing unless obscene or inappropriate acts are explicitly stated and not suggestive.

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I can go there right now, and see both male and females swinging around poles, in a public area. But ok. Not even remotely the same

With great power comes great responsibility. Show discretion, or you will know your folly.

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Originally Posted by IkaraGreydancer

Then places like the Beehive shouldnt be there with poledancers. Or quests where you strip down to a bikini to tantalize someone for information. Both of those revolve around adult themes. Its either fully ok or it not. The inbetween"ness" of these rules only makes things such as this make no sense

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How is the world in two colors? Seriously... A woman spinning relatively unsuggestively around a pole, or the dawning of one's bathing suit is a far cry from the detailed and descriptive language being offered for the mere sum of 150000 gil per hour. The two are vastly different in intent and appropriate audience.

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Originally Posted by Ashemmi

How is the world in two colors? Seriously... A woman spinning relatively unsuggestively around a pole, or the dawning of one's bathing suit is a far cry from the detailed and descriptive language being offered for the mere sum of 150000 gil per hour. The two are vastly different in intent and appropriate audience.

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Yet both revolve around adult themes. That is a fact. And lets not pretend that every pf listing is going into detail like that.

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Originally Posted by IkaraGreydancer

I can go there right now, and see both male and females swinging around poles, in a public area. But ok. Not even remotely the same

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Then I strongly recommend you refer to a thesaurus and look at the following terms suggestive and explicit.

Then afterward refer to the content descriptors for ESRB, although for your convenience I will reference it "Mild provocative references or materials" - This is the umbrella in which certain quests, and more importantly the Beehive.

So yes "Mild provocative references or materials" is not even remotely the same as a direct exchange of messages and thus conversation of potentially illicit material between 2 individuals. So yes, not the same. Once again.

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Originally Posted by IkaraGreydancer

Yet both revolve around adult themes. That is a fact. And lets not pretend that every pf listing is going into detail like that.

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The things people will say to defend their God given right to advertise for sexting on a datacenter-wide public PF in a video game teens as young as 13 are allowed to play.

Not only that but things in the game have to be approved by a board and certified as appropriate for a certain level of maturity. Player interactions need to be moderated because they can say whatever they want.

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Originally Posted by Zhexos

Greetings, everyone.

Thank you for your patience while we reviewed the situation. In short, there was an internal miscommunication which led to account actions being issued incorrectly. We sincerely apologize for the concern that this has caused the community. There has not been any change to our existing policy, and we want to assure players that our focus is on taking action against inappropriate advertisements/listings.

We will work to ensure proper communication is being done within the GM team and strive to ensure quality service and operations.

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So now the real question is, for clarification's sake: Are 18+ venues allowed to advertise their explicit 18+ content in the PF? Multiple GMs/CSRs at this point have confirmed that RP advertisements themselves aren't an issue, as long as they are not "inappropriate". The "as long as they aren't inappropriate/against the ToS" is a recurring point. Things that are considered "pornographic content" are explicitly against the ToS, so does this fall under that?

Honestly if the GMs could just be more specific about why people get reported it'd help prevent so many things like this.

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Originally Posted by ZedxKayn

The things people will say to defend their God given right to advertise for sexting on a datacenter-wide public PF in a video game teens as young as 13 are allowed to play.

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Nothing ive said has been off in anyway nor do I post or participate in anything those people put on pf.

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Originally Posted by ZedxKayn

There is a clause against obscenity in the ToS.

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Profanity not obscenity.

Profanity is an offensive use of language generally referred to as "swearing" or "cursing".
Obscenity is generally offensive in a sexual or shocking nature.

So as a need to point out for all the people who hate on the RP community. I'm part of the community and most of it makes me cringe, though just thought I'd remind most of you.

Its an MMORPG

That means Massively Multiplayer ROLEPLAYING game.

Not saying you have to RP or you are playing it wrong, but all this hate for people literally doing whats spelt out in the genre? Seriously?

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Originally Posted by IkaraGreydancer

Nothing ive said has been off in anyway nor do I post or participate in anything those people put on pf.

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The multiple - MULTIPLE - things being said of people in this thread that are completely not what they're arguing about, as well. I feel your pain here, and I hope someone sweeps this thread, even if that'll be a challenge due to its size.

So to sum up my thoughts on it all now we're all the way to page 104 (might be 105 but at the time of writing it's 104)

The GM Misinterpretation is now clear and it's why people have had strikes removed, but I have to say this as someone that has been a long time member of the RP community.

18+ Brothel runners, you were warned in October to stop advertising "explicit wordings" in the PF by Senior GMs when they did the big RMT sting which involved many venues getting visited and given a verbal warning to clean up their language in the PF, you were practically taunting and challenging them to come "Do something about it" and so they did.

I have many friends in the RP community, some come from that side of things and it has to be said, Due Diligence it's time to incorporate it, some venues always have and always will, those of you that aren't you know who you are, clean up your act.

I walked into an 18+ Establishment after this situation just to gauge what the reaction to what has occurred has been, as soon as I zoned into the building I was immediately propositioned, this was the first time I've ever been in that establishment so there was no way I could have been age verified before they start asking if I want to "buy some time with someone", I won't name names, I won't name the establishment either, but this is what is giving people wood to pile on the fire.

I'm of the belief that all facets of RP should absolutely exist, but brothel runners? You really really need to get yourselves sorted out because you're encouraging situations like this from happening again and again.

Innocent RPers got caught in the crossfire this time, start showing due diligence because who knows how heavy handed it'll come next time.

Stop playing with fire, fire hot.

maybe it's cause i grew up where i did but i absolutely grew up seeing signs for adult stuff--especially shops selling adult things and shops selling alcohol, etc--and, like, it didn't ruin my life or anything. that's not to mention the unseemly ads you can see on social media that i'm sure these 13 year olds playing ffxiv probably have. like have y'all never seen the stuff that Wish ads show?

i don't know, this idea of "children should not see anything remotely for adults" sort of rubs me a bit wrong because they are seeing it literally everywhere else. seeing a roleplay ad with a tacked on "18+" at the end isn't going to ruin their life.

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Originally Posted by Kaurhz

Incorrect. There's an entry for profanity, not obscenity, and they are not interchangeable either.

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In the support centre, they clarify what could be considered harassment, and obscene comments fall into this category.

"■Harassment
"Harassment" means speech and/or behaviour that inflicts deep emotional distress on another person. It is an extremely serious violation. Where Square Enix determines that harassment has occurred, a penalty equal to or higher than "Temporary Service Account Suspension" may be imposed.

Below is a non-exhaustive list of behaviour that could constitute harassment in Final Fantasy XIV:

・Discriminatory expressions based on race/nationality/thinking/gender/sexual orientation/gender identity
・Discriminatory expressions about a state/religion/occupation/organisation, etc.
・Obscene/indecent expressions
・Actions that inflict emotional distress using content related to historical events or crimes
・Stalking
・Disclosing or indicating personal information such as contact details with the aim of meeting up in the real world
・Disclosing or indicating another person's real world personal information without permission
・Other actions that are generally regarded as actions that inflict deep emotional distress on another person

These are prohibited in all places where expressions can be made, including chat (including Quick Chat and Emote), markers, comments and names. With regard to character names, if a phrase equating to harassment is formed within the full name, this is also regarded as harassment. In the case of a group action, all of the members involved will be subject to penalties."

So yeah, Obscene/Indecent expressions are prohibited and can get ya banned.

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Originally Posted by NessaWyvern

In the support centre, they clarify what could be considered harassment, and obscene comments fall into this category.

"■Harassment
"Harassment" means speech and/or behaviour that inflicts deep emotional distress on another person. It is an extremely serious violation. Where Square Enix determines that harassment has occurred, a penalty equal to or higher than "Temporary Service Account Suspension" may be imposed.

Below is a non-exhaustive list of behaviour that could constitute harassment in Final Fantasy XIV:

・Discriminatory expressions based on race/nationality/thinking/gender/sexual orientation/gender identity
・Discriminatory expressions about a state/religion/occupation/organisation, etc.
・Obscene/indecent expressions
・Actions that inflict emotional distress using content related to historical events or crimes
・Stalking
・Disclosing or indicating personal information such as contact details with the aim of meeting up in the real world
・Disclosing or indicating another person's real world personal information without permission
・Other actions that are generally regarded as actions that inflict deep emotional distress on another person

These are prohibited in all places where expressions can be made, including chat (including Quick Chat and Emote), markers, comments and names. With regard to character names, if a phrase equating to harassment is formed within the full name, this is also regarded as harassment. In the case of a group action, all of the members involved will be subject to penalties."

So yeah, Obscene/Indecent expressions are prohibited and can get ya banned.

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To be fair, here it's explained as part of what could be considered harassment towards a person. This is not the same as a general obscenity clause, which may or may not be present.

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Originally Posted by ZackZero

To be fair, here it's explained as part of what could be considered harassment towards a person. This is not the same as a general obscenity clause, which may or may not be present.

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"These are prohibited in all places where expressions can be made, including chat (including Quick Chat and Emote), markers, comments and names."
So even if you're not actively harassing a particular player, they might still be considered prohibited.

It's probably why a character called Chad Thunder-name for male bird/rooster- had to change his name, even though he wasn't harassing a particular player with it.

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Originally Posted by NessaWyvern

In the support centre, they clarify what could be considered harassment, and obscene comments fall into this category.

"■Harassment
"Harassment" means speech and/or behaviour that inflicts deep emotional distress on another person. It is an extremely serious violation. Where Square Enix determines that harassment has occurred, a penalty equal to or higher than "Temporary Service Account Suspension" may be imposed.

Below is a non-exhaustive list of behaviour that could constitute harassment in Final Fantasy XIV:

・Discriminatory expressions based on race/nationality/thinking/gender/sexual orientation/gender identity
・Discriminatory expressions about a state/religion/occupation/organisation, etc.
・Obscene/indecent expressions
・Actions that inflict emotional distress using content related to historical events or crimes
・Stalking
・Disclosing or indicating personal information such as contact details with the aim of meeting up in the real world
・Disclosing or indicating another person's real world personal information without permission
・Other actions that are generally regarded as actions that inflict deep emotional distress on another person

These are prohibited in all places where expressions can be made, including chat (including Quick Chat and Emote), markers, comments and names. With regard to character names, if a phrase equating to harassment is formed within the full name, this is also regarded as harassment. In the case of a group action, all of the members involved will be subject to penalties."

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Then I stand corrected on this specific account of it not being explicitly mentioned, didn't really think to check the support desk but..

Thank you for doing my homework for me and for convenience sake copying it and pasting it here in no unclear terms.

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Originally Posted by NessaWyvern

"These are prohibited in all places where expressions can be made, including chat (including Quick Chat and Emote), markers, comments and names."
So even if you're not actively harassing a particular player, they are still considered prohibited.

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Within the context of harassment, as they're expanded in that section of the Terms. Also, note that the operative term "could" does not mean that they do in all cases (though I would argue that discriminatory statements certainly do fall under a "would"). This places this under their discretion for enforcement.

EDIT: Before you claim that this is a defense of explicit advertisements, don't. As the saying goes, there's a time and a place, and that sort of ad certainly doesn't belong in a public search index.

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Originally Posted by NessaWyvern

In the support desk, they clarify what could be considered harassment, and obscene comments fall into this category.

"■Harassment
"Harassment" means speech and/or behaviour that inflicts deep emotional distress on another person. It is an extremely serious violation. Where Square Enix determines that harassment has occurred, a penalty equal to or higher than "Temporary Service Account Suspension" may be imposed.

Below is a non-exhaustive list of behaviour that could constitute harassment in Final Fantasy XIV:

・Discriminatory expressions based on race/nationality/thinking/gender/sexual orientation/gender identity
・Discriminatory expressions about a state/religion/occupation/organisation, etc.
・Obscene/indecent expressions
・Actions that inflict emotional distress using content related to historical events or crimes
・Stalking
・Disclosing or indicating personal information such as contact details with the aim of meeting up in the real world
・Disclosing or indicating another person's real world personal information without permission
・Other actions that are generally regarded as actions that inflict deep emotional distress on another person

These are prohibited in all places where expressions can be made, including chat (including Quick Chat and Emote), markers, comments and names. With regard to character names, if a phrase equating to harassment is formed within the full name, this is also regarded as harassment. In the case of a group action, all of the members involved will be subject to penalties."

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This is in the context of harassment.

It's not an obscenity clause. It's to account for when people use obscenities to harass or cause deep emotional distress

The takeaway from all of this is to report unseemly pfs. The reports are read, and the tos is in effect.

Just one word too many can make that pf go away forever, you just need to file the report.

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Originally Posted by NessaWyvern

snip.

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In cases of harassment, when another player has specifically asked another player to stop, ie, breaking consent.

In private venues, private rooms, door locked, that's not covered as it's effectively a "Private instance" which only the room owner and the person they are in there with that has Consented to it, thus removing the issue of breaching third party consent.

I'll never, ever agree with people that do these kind of behaviors in a public space like Limsa as they are straight breaking consent and falling under the constituted harassment policy, not to mention one other thing....

There's a warning if you click off the profanity filter that you are "Consenting" to seeing more adult language (why I'm also against using words like Brother/ERP/Courtesan in PFs because you're basically trying to bypass the profanity filter consent to offer adult writing in a public arena)

So if you go to an adult establishment, switch off your profanity filter and see people talking dirty to one another

Guess what? You consented twice.

Once by turning off the profanity filter

Twice by stepping foot in the venue

This doesn't change that some places need to be better to avoid potential issues avoiding minors that wander in and the PF thing was warned about as I previously said in Octobers RMT sting operation.

The important word here is "Consent"

If you turn off that filter, walk into a Brothel and go into a private chamber, you no longer have grounds to bring up any harassment report because you fully consented every step of the way.

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Originally Posted by ZackZero

Within the context of harassment, as they're expanded in that section of the Terms. Also, note that the operative term "could" does not mean that they do in all cases (though I would argue that discriminatory statements certainly do fall under a "would"). This places this under their discretion for enforcement.

EDIT: Before you claim that this is a defense of explicit advertisements, don't. As the saying goes, there's a time and a place, and that sort of ad certainly doesn't belong in a public search index.

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I guess you'll have to refer to the ToS:

"3.3 Profanity and Offensive Language. You may not use profanity or any language that a reasonable person would find offensive. The Game is for players aged 13 and older. You agree to behave accordingly."

Sexual Language can be considered Offensive Language in many situations, especially in the context of which you're supposed to behave in a game where there may be those as young as 13 playing.
Combined with the "These are prohibited in all places where expressions can be made, including chat (including Quick Chat and Emote), markers, comments and names." part of the support desk, and the fact that players have to change their names if they're too sexual, despite not harassing a specific person, I think it still holds up.

You know what? I'll make a ticket asking about it and see if I get a GM response on the issue. Something along the lines of "If Sexually explicit material is said in chats, despite not being targeted at a particular person, is it still a violation of ToS?" because this probably should be clarified.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JanVanding

In cases of harassment, when another player has specifically asked another player to stop, ie, breaking consent.

In private venues, private rooms, door locked, that's not covered as it's effectively a "Private instance" which only the room owner and the person they are in there with that has Consented to it, thus removing the issue of breaching third party consent.

I'll never, ever agree with people that do these kind of behaviors in a public space like Limsa as they are straight breaking consent and falling under the constituted harassment policy, not to mention one other thing....

There's a warning if you click off the profanity filter that you are "Consenting" to seeing more adult language (why I'm also against using words like Brother/ERP/Courtesan in PFs because you're basically trying to bypass the profanity filter consent to offer adult writing in a public arena)

So if you go to an adult establishment, switch off your profanity filter and see people talking dirty to one another

Guess what? You consented twice.

Once by turning off the profanity filter

Twice by stepping foot in the venue

This doesn't change that some places need to be better to avoid potential issues avoiding minors that wander in and the PF thing was warned about as I previously said in Octobers RMT sting operation.

The important word here is "Consent"

If you turn off that filter, walk into a Brothel and go into a private chamber, you no longer have grounds to bring up any harassment report because you fully consented every step of the way.

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File the report and let the gm decide if you have grounds to file the report. Especially if you think you’ve been subject to harassment.