6.0 Story Speculations

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Originally Posted by MrThinker

Someone pointed this out to me and now it won't leave my mind. Where the heck are the Lopporits?

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In a hole on ze moon. Probably in an area they don't want to show us just yet.

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Originally Posted by Vyrerus

In a hole on ze moon. Probably in an area they don't want to show us just yet.

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Considering they're FFIV's Namingways in all but name, the Lopporits are definetely in a hidden place under the lunar surface just like the Namingways were. But as always, we'll find out soon enough. ;)

I thought about this some more...and themes (it is the weekend and I was up on Friday and have Chatty Hands).

1. Civil war/schism
Goes back to the beginning. Also manifests in fandom discussions. Which side is right? Azem never had a choice or didn't make a choice. Sharlayan and events that play out will show us that we have to make that choice now and that the future is uncertain because who knows which side we will choose. Like Simba, we are going to have to take adult responsibility for Azem since he/she wasn't given or didn't take that choice the first time around. It would also give our character a final CHOICE to define ourselves, whereas we have been led to believe this whole time that we are walking in another's shoes (Hydaelyn, Azem, etc). And that Azem was "above it all" in a way by not taking sides. We know IRL that you have to. And we see it over and over in-game with Alphinaud's diplomacy.

I believe it won't make a difference except on a personal level because both "sides" (convocation and Venat's group) have sacrificed themselves already. Deep down, no one wants the suffering and calamity. The only difference I think it will make is that we get to lead one soul out of the lifestream on our way back, like in the myths. Also sort of recalling how travel to the First required latching onto an object or only being able to bring one person at a time.

2. Immortality/shards
The people who are unsundered are immortal. They are working to make everyone else immortal. Things in Emet-Selch's character development make me think that he has always harbored desires to return to mortality ("I should be the one to sigh," them showing his footsteps in just about every cutscene, his eventual siding with us or humanity/mankind). G'raha has experienced immortality (as far as we know--I feel like the personal heart-to-hearts with Emet-Selch and rivalry make it seem like G'raha could be more ancient than we think) in a way. Our real gift will be putting both sides' immortality to rest.

There is also the problem of Zenos, someone who is immortal but very human in other ways (he runs on base instinct and the will to fight us or...something more uh, passionate). I believe he is our other shards. He is forcing the battle of who will eat the other one, just like Ryne and Minfilia/Ascilla. He thinks it is a battle between equals, but our power of Friendship has reunited us with Ardbert, and our being 8/14 made Emet-Selch see that we could finally win decisively against Zenos (he had been looking for Ardbert but couldn't find him because of the Warriors of Darkness thing, maybe, and that he was in limbo as a ghost--would explain why he was lurking around ruins to find ancient depictions of the First's hero). Mankind's goodwill, creativity, inquisitive nature, and our magical force of Friendship (the only friendship Zenos has) will win out over base instinct, and mankind will not be "finished."

EDIT: Okay, so we are 9 fragments...I forgot. Maybe Zenos just doesn't care and wants to get vored.

ctd.

3. Katabasis
We are facing death and have already fought Hades. Zenos, the embodiment of the reaper/death, is coming for us and forcing the issue. We will go to heck. I think Hades and also another member of Venat's side (whether it is Venat or Emmeroloth or someone else -- the flower lady) will be the chief "dieties" of heck and we will ultimately have to "find our truth" there so we can come back and make our final decision. I think we will get to bring one of them back with us, but only one. It would be too cruel to not bring back the Mother or the Boyfriend, and they are pushing the boyfriend thing hard in the trailer (which I know has the effect of repulsing many people but to me the handholding Amaurotines killed my heart). I think the story direction for that detail might be added because...look around. The world is going through its own calamity right now even more than when Endwalker was in the initial planning stages, I'm sure. There would be the effect of giving people a choice meaningful only to them.

4. Forgiveness
I still don't really grasp the concept of sin-eaters and explaining it with dialogue won't help. I don't know whose sins we are forgiving--mankind in general (the names of the sin-eaters suggest that) or the more personal implication that we are forgiving ancient sins, or the personal sins of Emet-Selch under the influence of Zodiark (and could we decide the sins we were forgiving were also the sins of Venat's faction, in a way??). All I know is that by eating them, we untempered Hades and forgave him of his sins because they balanced out with the darkness (that may have been inflicted upon him by someone else). This is assuming sins are like universal crimes against humanity and not of a specific religious stance. If Emet-Selch was Amon and all of these other really shady characters then it would be hard for most of us to forgive him.

In the end, we will provide a certain forgiveness for the ancient battles of ideology, just like we did for Eulmore (which is why it made Emet-Selch cry...he was rooting for us to play that role this whole time).

ctd

5. Faithfulness/deceit and acting in good/bad faith
They presented Emet-Selch as basically Satan tempting us with our desire for knowledge, his jealousy over the Exarch/WoL, our tightrope-walking between "is he doing this in good faith." I am not familiar with Christianity and am about halfway through Paradise Lost and he is basically portrayed as Satan. This turned out at the end to be kind of a misportrayal either on his end or through our faith's/upbringing's influence.

Personally I think he was acting a part and desperately didn't want us to see through the façade (why he was so dramatic in the scene where you meet him and gradually he becomes a very emotionally vulnerable character and eventually snaps at the end to become an abusive, hysterical fanatic trying to persecute you and delete you from existence...which is what he probably knew his being tempered would do, but he had found a way through the restrictions put upon him to win his friend over to Zodiark's side (his tempered self's will), win his friend back (his personal will, though it won't turn out like he wanted with our immortality...he will have to become mortal and join US), and in the meantime untemper himself).

In Paradise Lost so far, I find Adam incredibly boring and don't see why he has to be an intermediary between God and Eve. Milton makes Satan very relatable and seems to take his side. I think these archetypes and stories about ancient sins and schisms force people to either lash out at each other or cause them to question their perspective...one of those reactions is constructive. :)

6. Our (and Fandaniel's) allegiance to the convocation or Venat's faction
I have more about Fandaniel but I think his lack of clear goal or allegiance (his scratched-out convocation stone--who did that is the real question I have!) and the fact that he, like us, will ultimately decide the "fate" of the star (It is 14 vs the 12 now (ETA: MIGHT be), and he is a potential defector, and so are we--and he knows that if he or Zenos knows of our secret 14th seat). This battle of near-halves would hearken back to our battle of the wills with Zenos if he is our other shards, to all the elaboration upon the fact that half the ancients sacrificed themselves... Fandaniel ultimately has to take our side and we have to take his for the calamity to be over and for this battle to be decisive and for humanity to go on. We are like hostages in several ways this expansion (as seen on the throne, and in our indecision about who to side with...maybe we will be able to relate more to Venat and to Emet-Selch's time as Solus and decisions they had to make as people of power who had to make choices and execute them). Will we use the Azem stone or will we use our flower power???


I had to get this out because it kept me up all Friday night. I really enjoy the discussions about this wonderful story and it just makes me sad when they degrade into shaming people.

About the trailer

Its interesting and at the same time frustrating to watch these trailers in different languages.
Different VAs, different lines with different meanings. I am left to wonder which one is right.

In the german version Lady of Light does not say anything about the flower being some test of conviction. Its just a guide and she says that even in our darkest hour we should try to find joy. Bascially she is just saying that we should continue on.

Then we have that new voice where its says "Come, let me relieve you of your burden. You've suffered enough." in the english version. In german its "Let's end the suffering, what else is left to hope for?" Honestly when I watched the german version I thought it was meant as something more positive. (Bit harder to convey with the english translation) I thought it was "lets end this, thats all we have left" or something like that. That they have to continue fighting because thats all they can do. With the english (and french) version it really sound more like "give up". I guess maybe they meant it like that in the german version too? Strangely the female voice in the german version sounded way more sad when she said it.

The most confusing parts are toward the end, when we see the Ancient shades and probably Zodiark (who suddenly has horns). I am gonna be honest. I have no idea if that even is Fandaniel speaking in the german version because the male voice speaks so slowly. Its so different towards the way Fandaniel normally talks that I really cant say if its him. The last voiced line with the WoL on the moon could also not be Emet. I am uncertain there too. Some even say that the lines in Japanese sounds like Elidibus VA.

So what do I take from it? I do believe that they want to confuse us by showing Fandaniel while playing those lines. I dont think that he is speaking them, at least not now.
What I do believe is, that we are seeing an echo version of a time when Zodiark was summoned and the voice we are hearing is begging Zodiark to help them and to restore the planet to its past self. Maybe we are able to witness that event.

In german the last line then asked if we really want to destroy this beautiful world. What if this was towards Venats group when they summoned Hydaelyn? I really think that these lines are completely out of context.

The last part with Alphinaud is hopefully a red herring. They really love to do that in trailers but until now it meant that the person in question was always save at the end. I pray that this is the case too.

Now a bit of thinking out loud after finally seeing true Ancients and not just those shades.

I think we will see this in a flashback or echo version through Venats eyes. Maybe she even walks along our side thus why she does not do something when that one Ancient got caught.

I still find it very interesting that she (if she is showing us this) is able to remember these people while the Ascians cant. Maybe this shows that deep down the Ascians just fought for this goal because they were tempered but could not even remember those that they lost? Even Hades shows us just masks in his fight. It would have been imo so much better if Amaurot would have been a city filled with shades but have important people be shown as their true self. It makes sense that one cant remember the faces of people living around them but friends and co-workers?

Hythlos reveal should have been a double shock by having him being the first Ancient with a real face. The same with Venats group. This could even play into Elidibus memory problem by showing only faceless Ancients instead of the others.

And at the very end, when they are both at deaths door, Emet and Elidibus should have stood before us as they once were. Instead Elidibus dies as a creepy faceless shade and we will always remember Hades in the look of his body puppet.

Just a few thoughts that were running through my mind after seeing the ancients more human.

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Originally Posted by Alleo

About the trailer

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The voice talking about destroying the world is very likely not Emet-Selch, but in German it doesn't sound like Elidibus at all (who has a much raspier voice), so that can't be it either. It actually sounds very similar to the voice that prays to Zodiark, which is likely Fandaniel, even though it sounds so different compared to how he normally speaks.
He's clearly supposed to sound like he's in a trance-like state, super tempered basically. The French voice sounds very much like Fandaniel as well.

Something to consider about Fandaniel's voice: In the patches so far we've only heard him use Asahi's voice. When Lahabrea possessed Thancred, and when Elidibus possessed Zenos and Ardbert, they were able to switch between their host body's voice and their actual voice. The reason Fandaniel sounds so different in the trailer might be because that's his actual voice, and not Asahi's (though the same actor, which is why it's similar enough to recognize it as Fandaniel).

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Originally Posted by Cilia

Contextually speaking, the problem is that the crystals don't show up until after Emet-Selch has been defeated (or at least we don't find them until then), thus the argument is that he survived and put them there. That can't really happen if he's dead. How then did they get there? Well... see below.

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Seems to me the answer is that he put them there beforehand.

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Personally I think the most probable culprit is the Hythlodaeus shade put them out, considering it gives you the forbidden Azem soul crystal later on. Which, admittedly, acknowledges it may or may not be acting in accordance with Emet-Selch's will.

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Hythlodaeus is just Emet-Selch's construct. Anything you attribute to him is in reality Emet's will by proxy.

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Originally Posted by Veloran

Seems to me the answer is that he put them there beforehand.


Hythlodaeus is just Emet-Selch's construct. Anything you attribute to him is in reality Emet's will by proxy.

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If emet set them up before Amaurot, that means he has found you worthy and is prepare to hand you their legacy. In that case, everything is Amaurot is stage to save your butt by joining you and Arbert's soul so you can control all that aether you have absorbed. Which also means that he would have a perfect exit strategy without getting killed. This is Emet we're talking about. He's basically a god to you by comparison.

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Originally Posted by Veloran

Seems to me the answer is that he put them there beforehand.


Hythlodaeus is just Emet-Selch's construct. Anything you attribute to him is in reality Emet's will by proxy.

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Hythlodaeus himself observed in the DMV scene how he had more autonomy than the other reconstructed ancients.

That said given Emet's spirit appeared in the Elidibus fight I am inclined to think he was the one who set the crystals there. Plus how would Hythlodaeus have even gotten them?

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Originally Posted by Veloran

Hythlodaeus is just Emet-Selch's construct. Anything you attribute to him is in reality Emet's will by proxy.

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By that token, the combination lion-eagle that the Amaurotine accidentally thought up was also to their will.

And Alpha seeking us out to defeat Omega was also Omega's will by proxy.

I believe that Hythlodaeus was an unintended consequence of Emet-Selch attempting to rebuild a vision of Amaurot, but not being completely omniscient (which the Amaurotines do demonstrate and explain to us, so it's understandable). I don't think everything Hythlodaeus does is something Emet-Selch would have intended, except in the sense that Emet-Selch would have intended Hythlodaeus to act like the Hythlodaeus he remembers. Which includes acting in ways that Emet-Selch would not have thought of or approved of.

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Originally Posted by YianKutku

And Alpha seeking us out to defeat Omega was also Omega's will by proxy.

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This one's actually mostly true, though. Omega's whole storyline is about it trying to find the strongest possible warrior so that it can improve its own capabilities through what it learns from their fighting, because it's still struggling with the fact it lost to Midgardsormr.

The only thing that didn't go to plan was that Omega lost to us after taking the optimal calculated form.

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Originally Posted by Cleretic

This one's actually mostly true, though. Omega's whole storyline is about it trying to find the strongest possible warrior so that it can improve its own capabilities through what it learns from their fighting, because it's still struggling with the fact it lost to Midgardsormr.

The only thing that didn't go to plan was that Omega lost to us after taking the optimal calculated form.

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There was also the part where Alpha tried to free us from Omega's trap, and Omega clearly did not intend for this. Omega also didn't care that Alpha was ineffectually throwing himself against the barrier, but this act of perseverance was what inspired Midgardsormr to free us instead.

I highly, highly doubt that this was part of Omega's plan, because there is no way to plan for such an occurrence at all.

In fact, a lot of these "ah, but it was their plan all along" speculations run into the question of why the alleged planner would go to such extraordinary lengths to act out this bizarre theatre. Surely there was a much simpler and quicker way to achieve their goals.

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Originally Posted by YianKutku

By that token, the combination lion-eagle that the Amaurotine accidentally thought up was also to their will.

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Despite what Hythlodaeus says, it looks to me as though he was obviously put there intentionally. He comes up to WoL when WoL is forced to be sitting in a queue because of the bureaucratic façade Emet created, and the queue just happens to appear and disappear exactly according to the story Hythlodaeus is putting out as a visual aid, and when you confront Emet shortly thereafter he already assumes you know what Hylodaeus had told you. Moreover, we don't have any reason to think that a simple recreation like Hythlodaeus would even be capable of getting or creating the memory stones on his own.

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Originally Posted by YianKutku

In fact, a lot of these "ah, but it was their plan all along" speculations run into the question of why the alleged planner would go to such extraordinary lengths to act out this bizarre theatre. Surely there was a much simpler and quicker way to achieve their goals.

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Emet-Selch is literally theatrical and all of phantom Amaurot is basically the stage he created to tell you the story of the Final Days in order to try and push WoL into controlling the Light and prove they could live up to Azem.

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Originally Posted by Veloran

Despite what Hythlodaeus says, it looks to me as though he was obviously put there intentionally. He comes up to WoL when WoL is forced to be sitting in a queue because of the bureaucratic façade Emet created, and the queue just happens to appear and disappear exactly according to the story Hythlodaeus is putting out as a visual aid, and when you confront Emet shortly thereafter he already assumes you know what Hylodaeus had told you. Moreover, we don't have any reason to think that a simple recreation like Hythlodaeus would even be capable of getting or creating the memory stones on his own.

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While I agree with you that the soul crystals were planted by Emet (or at the very least by some way of Emet's devising) in the "off-chance" he lost and was killed, I don't think that you can argue that confirms Hythlodaeus was an intentional creation of Emet (at least not in the way that he currently is and acts). It always felt like to me that Hythlodaeus always gives us a little much information than what Emet would have liked to be given, even if it's not directly relevant like everything regarding Azem.

It was perfectly within Hades's control to snuff out the creation and bring about one that was more rigidly controlled if he so desired it. So we can assume if he genuinely had an issue with it, he'd cut it short.

On the point of the crystals, placing the Azem stone with Hythlodaeus would've been rather meaningless if Hades did not intend to act upon being summoned, since Ere our curtain falls strongly suggests that is exactly what it did, and particularly the JP version of it, although they all get the same point across. Given that these stones were created post-sundering (more clearly spelt out in the FR version, but also apparent from Emet's secrecy around the Azem stone), to me it is obvious that he very deliberately infused Hythlodaeus with this knowledge, to act on it in the event that he fell in battle - and the - or a major - reason should be clear from the fight itself, where he asks how would their plans be realised in his absence? So clearly he did not want Elidibus drifting about to enact a plan he'd be unable to complete without Hades.

Asking why didn't this very theatrical individual resort to quicker/simpler methods is missing the point, somewhat...

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Originally Posted by GoldStarz

While I agree with you that the soul crystals were planted by Emet (or at the very least by some way of Emet's devising) in the "off-chance" he lost and was killed, I don't think that you can argue that confirms Hythlodaeus was an intentional creation of Emet (at least not in the way that he currently is and acts). It always felt like to me that Hythlodaeus always gives us a little much information than what Emet would have liked to be given, even if it's not directly relevant like everything regarding Azem.

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Were you asleep in class during the conversation with Hythlodaeus where he said "These other seem unaware of their pale existance, but I wonder if Emet-Selch's mind was distracted when it came to my reconstitution"? Also, when Y'shtola confronted Emet for "Not content with remaking an entire city, you aim to fill it with the reconstituted souls of the dead" ay which Emet replied "I may haave gotten a little carried away, in my attention to detail. Added a few unnecessary flourishes"? A lot of people fail to realize that Amaurot is not a random dungeon. The entire world is re-created by Emet so there's is no such thing as random encounters. Everything you experienced in Amaurot is there for a reason (to educate you about their past and their mistakes to prepare you to carry on their legacy). Which also means that that's quite a lot of preparation for an "off chance" and if Emet went through all that trouble for something as trivial, he would have had a perfect exit strategy in the "off chance" that you defeat him.

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Originally Posted by JeanneOrnitier

Hythlodaeus himself observed in the DMV scene how he had more autonomy than the other reconstructed ancients.

That said given Emet's spirit appeared in the Elidibus fight I am inclined to think he was the one who set the crystals there. Plus how would Hythlodaeus have even gotten them?

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Hythlodaeus didn't say he has more control, just that his construction is more detailed with more awareness. enough to realize that he's just a shade created by Emet. Not that he necssary have more control over his actions which he freely admits to in Etched in the Stars when he handed you the Azem crystal "After all, I cannot say whether I act of my own volition or by the will of my recreator".

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Originally Posted by YianKutku

By that token, the combination lion-eagle that the Amaurotine accidentally thought up was also to their will.

And Alpha seeking us out to defeat Omega was also Omega's will by proxy.

I believe that Hythlodaeus was an unintended consequence of Emet-Selch attempting to rebuild a vision of Amaurot, but not being completely omniscient (which the Amaurotines do demonstrate and explain to us, so it's understandable). I don't think everything Hythlodaeus does is something Emet-Selch would have intended, except in the sense that Emet-Selch would have intended Hythlodaeus to act like the Hythlodaeus he remembers. Which includes acting in ways that Emet-Selch would not have thought of or approved of.

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The Amaurotine is not omniscient but an unsundered Amaurotine is still basically a god compare to you. In a world design by Emet-Selch, there is no such thing as unintended consequences and there's is no such thing as random encounters. Everything you experienced in Amaurot is there for a reason (to educate you about their past and their mistakes to prepare you to carry on their legacy). Hythloaeus was just created with more detail and awareness because he's a close friend (enough to realize he's a re-created shade), but not freedom of action which he freely admits to in Etched in the Stars when he handed you the Azem crystal "After all, I cannot say whether I act of my own volition or by the will of my recreator".

The Hythlodaeus shade is deliberately left vague.

Personally I think it's acting on Emet-Selch's subconscious, all the things he wants to tell you but can't because it would compromise the rejoining and acknowledging the PC as "Azem" would make it that much harder for him to kill you if need be. At no point does Emet-Selch say or even suggest he can see Ardbert's soul - Hythlodaeus (shade) even says it's improbable anyone else was able to see him, an idea backed up by Through His Eyes (where Hades says Hythlodaeus could have taken the title, but chose not to).

He is (was?) very smart and very powerful, but neither omniscient nor omnipotent, and despite playing a great game was ultimately outplayed by Hydaelyn. While his character throughout Shadowbringers is much an act, by the time you reach Amaurot you've seen through his facade; and by the time you've actually come to blows he's outright discarded his title (a figurative and literal mask) and using his true name (something never before seen from an Ascian).

So, ahh... no, I can't agree that the events in phantom Amaurot were all purposefully and deliberately orchestrated to get "Azem" to defeat / kill Hades. They had already failed his test of "worthiness" by that point and there's nothing even suggesting he saw Ardbert's soul other than personal belief. And there's no profit in arguing against beliefs.

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Originally Posted by Cilia

The Hythlodaeus shade is deliberately left vague.

Personally I think it's acting on Emet-Selch's subconscious, all the things he wants to tell you but can't because it would compromise the rejoining and acknowledging the PC as "Azem" would make it that much harder for him to kill you if need be. At no point does Emet-Selch say or even suggest he can see Ardbert's soul - Hythlodaeus (shade) even says it's improbable anyone else was able to see him, an idea backed up by Through His Eyes (where Hades says Hythlodaeus could have taken the title, but chose not to).

He is (was?) very smart and very powerful, but neither omniscient nor omnipotent, and despite playing a great game was ultimately outplayed by Hydaelyn. While his character throughout Shadowbringers is much an act, by the time you reach Amaurot you've seen through his facade; and by the time you've actually come to blows he's outright discarded his title (a figurative and literal mask) and using his true name (something never before seen from an Ascian).

So, ahh... no, I can't agree that the events in phantom Amaurot were all purposefully and deliberately orchestrated to get "Azem" to defeat / kill Hades. They had already failed his test of "worthiness" by that point and there's nothing even suggesting he saw Ardbert's soul other than personal belief. And there's no profit in arguing against beliefs.

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If you have already failed. Why not leave you to your own device and let you eventually be consume by all the Aether. Why invite you to Amaurot and setup all the varies encounters in Amaurot to show you their history, their mistake?

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Originally Posted by Wiz33

If you have already failed. Why not leave you to your own device and let you eventually be consume by all the Aether. Why invite you to Amaurot and setup all the varies encounters in Amaurot to show you their history, their mistake?

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This was the core villain plot of Shadowbringers: Emet's plot was to have you become a lightwarden and rejoin The First to The Source or have you accept you are an Ancient, remember old Amaurot, and switch sides. In his mind he had plotted the perfect outcome because either one was bound to come to pass (in his opinion) and he wins either way. After you defeat Hades, Emet's shock comes when your WOL flashes as an Ancient for a brief moment and he recognizes you as Azem. Since Azem and Emet were friends and he knows that Azem would have sided with the 'lesser races" anyway, he realizes that his plan wasn't full proof, that the WOL was always going to seek a 3rd solution to his plot. And now he was beat at his own game, or his strength, which was plotting and planning.

So to answer your question, he shows you everything in Amaurot so you would take the option to remember your Ancient past. Remember either outcome was a win (in his opinion), plus he was immortal and has all the time in the world to rejoin The First if the WOL would have changed sides.

I'm really starting to feel like the moon is just a red herring and the actual climax of the story is going to take place back on the Source.

Mostly because of Emet's line about finding our truth in "the place where souls and stars slumber", which most likely is referring to the aetherial sea.

The "stars" could also be referring to the shards that were rejoined...which has interesting implications if it's suggesting that they didn't simply disappear and that they still exist within the aetherial sea in some form or fashion.

I'd like to think there's some third party that's actually responsible for the Final Days that we're going to have to snuff out, but if such a thing really was lurking in the aetherial sea, I feel Hydaelyn would've told us about it long ago...unless knowing of its existence would somehow be counter to her agenda.

Considering that the terminus beasts are born from fear and other negative emotions, if there was some kind of "original" beast that was responsible for the sound, perhaps telling everyone about it and creating the dread of a slumbering apocalypse might've simply served to hasten its awakening.

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

Feel like Hydaelyn would have told us long ago

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Why do you feel like she would have told us that? Except for when she spoke to us as Word of the Mother, she only ever speaks to us using imperative statements. Issuing commands.

I don't think the moon is a red herring, necessarily. It just won't be the location for the climax. I think it's basically going to include one of the challenging trials or dungeons followed by the big twists and exposition dumps about the Ancient's past.

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

I'm really starting to feel like the moon is just a red herring and the actual climax of the story is going to take place back on the Source.

Mostly because of Emet's line about finding our truth in "the place where souls and stars slumber", which most likely is referring to the aetherial sea.

The "stars" could also be referring to the shards that were rejoined...which has interesting implications if it's suggesting that they didn't simply disappear and that they still exist within the aetherial sea in some form or fashion.

I'd like to think there's some third party that's actually responsible for the Final Days that we're going to have to snuff out, but if such a thing really was lurking in the aetherial sea, I feel Hydaelyn would've told us about it long ago...unless knowing of its existence would somehow be counter to her agenda.

Considering that the terminus beasts are born from fear and other negative emotions, if there was some kind of "original" beast that was responsible for the sound, perhaps telling everyone about it and creating the dread of a slumbering apocalypse might've simply served to hasten its awakening.

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I'm gonna go out on a massive limb here and assume the stars referenced have already been talked about. Edit complete!

"Treasure every moment, every step of your descent, and there in the depths where souls and stars rest, find your truth" - Emet-Selch Endwalker Launch trailer

Hythlodeaus during "Etched in the stars"

"Heh heh... I see you have been collecting stars.

I speak of those crystals. They have constellations etched upon them, yes?

High in the heavens, those stars shine their guiding light down upon the lives below. Fitting symbols for the Convocation of Fourteen, would you not agree?

As you will have gathered, each crystal bears an account of the life of a member of the Convocation as remembered by the unsundered.

Lest you worry, they aren't concepts; they are far too incomplete to be so. But they suffice for imbuing memories within sundered souls, that they might be restored to their office.

Keep them. I am sure Emet-Selch wouldn't mind."

Continued:

Among all the offices, the Fourteenth was most unusual. For while the rest sat in Amaurot, its holder was charged with gaining an intimate knowledge of the wider world.

In the course of his duty, he traveled the length and breadth of every land, and befriended countless folk.

He encountered troubles too, of course. Matters which he could simply have referred to the Convocation. But that was not his way.

Nay, more often than not, he would call upon his comrades, and together resolve matters themselves.

Such is the magick sealed within that crystal─the magick to summon the stars to your side.

In time of greatest need, should you wish upon it with all your heart, it will surely answer your call."



My guess is that the truth Emet-Selch is implying that we must find is the truth of the ancient world and the final wish of the ancients that Yoshida teased back in the fanfest. The launch trailer blessed us with quite a bit Meteor interacting with Amaurot as well which could be a clue to what EW holds.


Gripping the Azem Crystal:
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...94/unknown.png

Wishing Upon the Crystal:
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...72/unknown.png

Surrounded by Ascian masks:
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...83/unknown.png

Surrounded by Ancients:
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...30/unknown.png

Maybe we're supposed to take the Seat of Sacrifice lines:
"Herein I commit the chronicle of the traveler. Shepherd to the stars in the dark. Though the world be sundered and our souls set adrift, where you walk, my dearest friend, fate shall surely follow. For yours is the Fourteenth seat—the seat of Azem." literally. As the inheritor of the crystal we will sheperd the souls, memories and dreams of the departed convocation personally.

But that's just my long winded and personal interpretation :p

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Vyrerus

Why do you feel like she would have told us that? Except for when she spoke to us as Word of the Mother, she only every speaks to us using imperative statements. Issuing commands.

I don't think the moon is a red herring, necessarily. It just won't be the location for the climax. I think it's basically going to include one of the challenging trials or dungeons followed by the big twists and exposition dumps about the Ancient's past.

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The moon's been getting tons of emphasis both in-game and in the pre-release material, but I don't feel like it's where we're going to lay bare the biggest/ugliest truths about the world and the Final Days, mostly (Though perhaps "red herring" wasn't the right term for that).

That one zone they've been adamant about showing basically nothing of past the concept art feels like where the lore bombs are getting dropped, though going to the moon and hearing Zodiark's side of the story (Assuming he's even functional enough to do so) is going to be important to things as well.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

The moon's been getting tons of emphasis both in-game and in the pre-release material, but I don't feel like it's where we're going to lay bare the biggest/ugliest truths about the world and the Final Days, mostly (Though perhaps "red herring" wasn't the right term for that).

That one zone they've been adamant about showing basically nothing of past the concept art feels like where the lore bombs are getting dropped, though going to the moon and hearing Zodiark's side of the story (Assuming he's even functional enough to do so) is going to be important to things as well.

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The main reason I'm against this, although I admit it's weird that the zone they've been hiding isn't the literal moon... I mean, it'd be very weird to set up the 'Go To The Moon' expansion only for the ending to end up down planetside again. You bring in the moon as a setting, you end on the moon, right?

...then again, they did end their 'Fight angelic horror-monsters in a fantasy post-apocalypse' expansion by sending us to a war criminal's underwater love letter to the Art Deco aesthetic. So maybe I shouldn't expect something that linear.

My guess on the Moon is it will be something akin to 4.0’s Yanxia. Not the final zone, but somewhere in the middle, and probably visited back and forth (like the interior).

We already have a good idea what the 6 new zones are:
Garlemald
The Moon
Moon Interior
Thavnair
“Zeal”
???

My guess for the final zone will be whatever comes after “Zeal” (floating Azem island chain thing)

I also guess this to be the interior of Hydaelyn itself, possibly going into a Hollow Earth kinda thing.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kaynide

My guess on the Moon is it will be something akin to 4.0’s Yanxia. Not the final zone, but somewhere in the middle, and probably visited back and forth (like the interior).

We already have a good idea what the 6 new zones are:
Garlemald
The Moon
Moon Interior
Thavnair
“Zeal”
???

My guess for the final zone will be whatever comes after “Zeal” (floating Azem island chain thing)

I also guess this to be the interior of Hydaelyn itself, possibly going into a Hollow Earth kinda thing.

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You are missing Labyrinthos, though.

Is it even confirmed we have two Moon zones ?

As far as I know we have
Sharlayan (City hub)
Radz-at-Han (Endgame hub)

Then:
Thavnair
Garlemald
Labyrinthos
Mare Lamentorum (moon)
"The floating continent we have a glimpe in the job trailer and official artwork but no name"
??? (if we go by 6 zones per expansion as usual).

I'm very torn about that crystalline area from the Launch Trailer. At first I wanted to say it's a dungeon with the Scions following you, but with that new NPC follow feature, it could also be part of our potential 6th zone.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mansion

Is it even confirmed we have two Moon zones ?

As far as I know we have
Sharlayan (City hub)
Radz-at-Han (Endgame hub)

Then:
Thavnair
Garlemald
Labyrinthos
Mare Lamentorum (moon)
"The floating continent we have a glimpe in the job trailer and official artwork but no name"
??? (if we go by 6 zones per expansion as usual).

---

The reveal of Mare Lamentorum during fanfest came with the comment "this is one of the locations on the moon" with emphasis.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RicaRuin

You are missing Labyrinthos, though.

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As I said, ”I also guess this to be the interior of Hydaelyn itself, possibly going into a Hollow Earth kinda thing.”, if it is indeed under Sharlayan.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RicaRuin

I'm very torn about that crystalline area from the Launch Trailer. At first I wanted to say it's a dungeon with the Scions following you, but with that new NPC follow feature, it could also be part of our potential 6th zone.

---

I would lean more moon interior dungeon, as it is vaguely similar to the decent into the moon via the Crystal palace of FFIV.

I'm really dying to know where the nightmarish hellscape of a dungeon falls in the scheme of things, because it could be something inconsequential like a fabrication produced by Fandaniel or an Ancient record (Showing the aftermath of the first coming of the Final Days), or more interestingly an actual plane of reality where the source of the sound lurks (Which is possibly being suggested by the minstrel's song mentioning our journey ending in the rift between worlds).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kesey

This was the core villain plot of Shadowbringers: Emet's plot was to have you become a lightwarden and rejoin The First to The Source or have you accept you are an Ancient, remember old Amaurot, and switch sides. In his mind he had plotted the perfect outcome because either one was bound to come to pass (in his opinion) and he wins either way. After you defeat Hades, Emet's shock comes when your WOL flashes as an Ancient for a brief moment and he recognizes you as Azem. Since Azem and Emet were friends and he knows that Azem would have sided with the 'lesser races" anyway, he realizes that his plan wasn't full proof, that the WOL was always going to seek a 3rd solution to his plot. And now he was beat at his own game, or his strength, which was plotting and planning.

So to answer your question, he shows you everything in Amaurot so you would take the option to remember your Ancient past. Remember either outcome was a win (in his opinion), plus he was immortal and has all the time in the world to rejoin The First if the WOL would have changed sides.

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Except he recognized you're Azem a long time ago. He even mentioned that you don't remember. If Hythlodaues's shade can recognize who you're, Emet certainly did despite his show of surprise. That's why the crystal trail was laid out for you.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

The reveal of Mare Lamentorum during fanfest came with the comment "this is one of the locations on the moon" with emphasis.

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Ah thanks!
Well, I'm okay with a bit more "focused zones". So far, the 4 zones we know of are a bit all over the place, which makes me fear a "Stormblood narrative" that would feel too patched altogether.
But we can still hope they learned their lessons from Stormblood too!

The zones might be scattered around, but they're still united by a singular narrative of trying to stop the threat of the Final Days, which seems to largely be trying to figure out what the heck we're dealing with so we can actually do something about it.

Stormblood's plot felt extremely disjointed because they opted to make the liberation of an entirely different nation a mere step towards the Ala Mhigan liberation when it could've just as easily been a story unto itself.

There's likely going to be a lot of 'jumping' between zones, potentially using the mechanic introduced during the solo duty at the end of the latest story patch. That one where specific NPC's are shown as similar to chess pieces on a map and we 'jump' between controlling them to see through their eyes.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

I'm really dying to know where the nightmarish hellscape of a dungeon falls in the scheme of things, because it could be something inconsequential like a fabrication produced by Fandaniel or an Ancient record (Showing the aftermath of the first coming of the Final Days), or more interestingly an actual plane of reality where the source of the sound lurks (Which is possibly being suggested by the minstrel's song mentioning our journey ending in the rift between worlds).

---

I think that it's the area outside of Pandaemonium, given the preview that we got of the spooky castle zone with the aetherically charged sky in the live letter. The main part of the castle will probably house the 6.0 showdown, and we'll probably dive into its depths across the raid tier to take out the original threat that started it all in 6.4.

Bonus points if the end of the 6.2 raid tier comes with a final twinkling save point outside of a sealed door.