P1N Warrior solo kill

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Originally Posted by ASkellington

I am not saying to nerf tank sustain. You can go through my posts if you like. I have 0 problems with tanks having high healing capabilities. I have problems with the devs tuning content design as if they don't exist and as if healers do not have a minimum of 8-10 heals across the board. What we've been saying, and the reason why this post was originally in the healer forums is that:

WAR/PLD/GNB being able to solo it with the sustain they've been given is proof that healing is too low.

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Agree to an extent. For the EX1 and EX2 fights, yeah, those were a tad undertuned. Though I don't think this matters at all for Normal content. It's normal. Normal fights do like ~30% of the damage it's Savage counterparts do with half the mechanics. It's whole design is so eight monkeys can queue in, have 20 deaths, and still clear. Why do you think there are no enrage timers on Normal fights?

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Originally Posted by J-Reyno

for no reason.

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Please post the all healer no tank clear of any current savage floor.

Oh you can't? Maybe that's because this game rewards what tanks can do -far more- than it rewards what healers can do.

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Originally Posted by Ixon

Agree to an extent. For the EX1 and EX2 fights, yeah, those were a tad undertuned. Though I don't think this matters at all for Normal content. It's normal. Normal fights do like ~30% of the damage it's Savage counterparts do with half the mechanics. It's whole design is so eight monkeys can queue in, have 20 deaths, and still clear. Why do you think there are no enrage timers on Normal fights?

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I respectfully disagree. I should not have to go to Savage to find enjoyment in a role when DPS and tanks do not.

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Originally Posted by Semirhage

Please post the all healer no tank clear of any current savage floor.

Oh you can't? Maybe that's because this game rewards what tanks can do -far more- than it rewards what healers can do.

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"Please post all the no healer no tank clears of any current savage floor.

Oh you can't? Maybe that's because this game rewards what tanks and healers can do -far more- than it rewards what dps can do."

Like, the necessity of a tank in a fight can be boiled down to just the tank busters. If you can circumvent what is a staple mechanic in every fight then you don't need a tank either. I almost feel like that's what healers want. A single copy paste mechanic in every fight that makes them a necessity. It's weird cause I main tank, but if I think there is room for my MT to solo I'm always 100% for it and will just swap to a random DPS. But who knows, maybe they'll add a "drop to 1" or a "Esuna 7 people" or a "healer only towers" in every fight just so they feel more validated.

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Originally Posted by ASkellington

I respectfully disagree. I should not have to go to Savage to find enjoyment in a role when DPS and tanks do not.

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I think a lot more tanks than you think are just as bored in normal mode content. I'm a tank main that has started going healer in the normal modes because it's so boring as a tank. Normal modes are super boring to all roles, the only difference is it's twice as boring for tanks AND healers compared to DPS due to the lack of outgoing damage.

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Originally Posted by Ixon

I think a lot more tanks than you think are just as bored in normal mode content. I'm a tank main that has started going healer in the normal modes because it's so boring as a tank. Normal modes are super boring to all roles, the only difference is it's twice as boring for tanks AND healers compared to DPS due to the lack of outgoing damage.

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Be that as it may (and it may because I am by no means a tank main... yet), Savage and Ultimate only make up part of the entire game.

I have done MSQ from lv1-90 as a healer. It is painfully boring and ridiculously slow in comparison to tanks (I'm not even going to add DPS because that's a given) especially once tanks start getting their burst rotation.

Dungeon content you can make the argument for (I'm in favor they should be training for raids) since they're optional, but I still find Mt. Gulg and Amaurot even now to be challenging. And I was very hopeful with the lv81 one since things feel like they hit harder. And then... everything began to drop off.

Raids... I also disagree on. They're optional content. They aren't required to progress the MSQ. I don't see why they can't hit a bit harder and/or give tanks/healers more things to focus on other than raidwides and tank busters.

I dunno. I find it odd that we have 4 tanks and 4 healers and I can find 1 tank I enjoy the playstyle of (GNB) but hate all 4 healers from the ground up when only one other game has made me feel that way thus far.

First, most jobs and roles get more boring the better you get at them. That's just what getting good means. Second, the actual fighting parts of MSQ are usually dull, but even more so for healers because they design one instance for every role, so of course healers are going to suffer the most from it. Third, everything in this game is optional. If you wait an expansion you can just bypass MSQ with a story boost. Fourth, if you don't have fun on the healers but enjoy tanking, then swap until SE fixes it? That's kind of the point of having the ability to play 20 jobs whenever you want. I stopped playing Tank in SB because they bored me and played melee instead. You can still fight the fight of having SE make the changes you want in a job or role to how you want, but at the end of the day if they don't you either have to bite the bullet or swap jobs/roles. Literally every job and role has seen it's highs and lows.

Finally, this game is currently made with a low skill floor and a low skill ceiling. That's just business 101. In order to appeal to as many people as possible they have to design all the jobs that way to ensure even the most mediocre of player can do their job/role somewhat optimally. This is good game design for the masses, but hurts the most hardcore players who like a challenge. However, the hardcore players are a minority compared to the rest. It's just how it is. Look at the massive drop of skill ceiling and rise of skill floor from HW to now and ask veteran players how jobs used to be to see this direction.

Like I said, fighting for the changes you want is fine, it's just better if you keep in mind the certain direction they have in place for the game and helps if the items pushed can be squeezed into that reality. Asking for 10 more dps buttons and a more complex rotation for all healers REALISTICALLY won't happen. It might, but given that they have stepped further and further away from that leads me to think they won't. Asking for enrages in NM fights or twice as much damage in Normal content REALISTICALLY probably won't happen either, given the nature of who the target audience for those fights are.

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Originally Posted by Ixon

Like, the necessity of a tank in a fight can be boiled down to just the tank busters. If you can circumvent what is a staple mechanic in every fight then you don't need a tank either. I almost feel like that's what healers want. A single copy paste mechanic in every fight that makes them a necessity. It's weird cause I main tank, but if I think there is room for my MT to solo I'm always 100% for it and will just swap to a random DPS. But who knows, maybe they'll add a "drop to 1" or a "Esuna 7 people" or a "healer only towers" in every fight just so they feel more validated.

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And yet there's still a glaring double standard between the roles. Twice has this "no tanks in current content" thing been done, and twice Square immediately nerfed the two jobs that enabled it, but tanks solo or mono-role clearing things is just business as usual. So I'm going to ask for probably the fourth time in this thread: why are tanks allowed to flip the concept of teamwork or the trinity the bird, and but it constitutes an emergency change when anyone else does it? I don't think the playerbase is responsible for that state of affairs, but I can certainly blame the tank players for going "whaaaaaat we can clear stuff solo that's just how things are deal with it!"

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Originally Posted by Ixon

if you don't have fun on the healers but enjoy tanking, then swap until SE fixes it?

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They're not going to. I swapped to DPS two expansions ago and the design has been getting worse ever since. FFXIV has the most horrible healer design I've ever seen in an RPG, let alone an MMO. The role needs a redesign from the ground up.

That's an issue entirely separate from the laughable idea earlier in the thread that healers "should" do less damage than tanks because their contribution is "more valuable", when literally every single piece of evidence in content as designed shows that healers are the LEAST valuable members of any given party.

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Originally Posted by Ixon

"Please post all the no healer no tank clears of any current savage floor.

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That's essentially the point of this entire thread.

That tanks are essentially Gods right now. They can cover every single role and have no weaknesses other than content takes them a bit longer to do on their own.

No other Role can say that.

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Originally Posted by ASkellington

Raids... I also disagree on. They're optional content. They aren't required to progress the MSQ.

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There is still good story content / lore behind the raids. Just sayin'. So they should at least be engaging.

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

That's essentially the point of this entire thread.

That tanks are essentially Gods right now. They can cover every single role and have no weaknesses other than content takes them a bit longer to do on their own.

No other Role can say that.



There is still good story content / lore behind the raids. Just sayin'. So they should at least be engaging.

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Welcome to FF XIV my friend, you've finally discovered tank role.

ofc tank can do content alone and no other role can do that (yet ?) it doesn't mean they're OP, it only mean the fight are bad designed and can be cheesed by a single role. The reason why the other role can't solo is because the TB or share or any deadly mechanics with a massive amount of damage which is a good design. Tanks do not care about that and squex didn't add enough mechanics to counter a possible solo.

implement more deadly mechanics like the role one on p4 or more TB with an actual real vuln and i guarantee you won't see any more fight beside dungeons being solo'ed by a tank.



Now if you can show us some real argument beside the common " tank take less damage than healer and dps WTF OP", i'll be glad :rolleyes:

Cry about how the actual fight are designed, not about our role unless you have a good reason.