DPS who do 4k worth of damage = garbage tier

You're right Issac, you haven't said you're against parsers. You haven't said you're for them either. You haven't made a single quantifiable judgment either way other than to say the thread sickens you, and then proceeded to start attacking people who made assumptions based on your purposefully vague post.

You're attention begging. You're being willfully obtuse. You're disrupting a thread and adding nothing to it. You're right, this is a damn joke. Get off the stage, nobody's laughing.

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Originally Posted by Dualgunner

What about the subject makes you sick to your stomach?

That people can be as low as 4k in savage? That people complain 4k is too high a bar to set as average in savage? That the topic hasn't been broached yet? That it's been broached before? That it's been broached at all?

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That we, as a community, can be so toxic to eachother.

Also, I never attacked anyone. That's a very inaccurate statement.

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Originally Posted by Issac

Another assumption, and quite frankly, rude.

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How is that remotely rude? Of course I made an assumption. You provided no context whatsoever except to claim the thread made you sick. Okay? How else am I to take that sort of response? If you don't want people to make assumptions, stop being vague.

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Originally Posted by Issac

See, the post history in this thread, and the actions of you few, has been pretty acidic. You want to put words in my mouth? Fine. This is a damn joke.

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We've been acidic yet you came into a thread that was generally civil, claimed it made you sick then got offended when people asked why or made assumptions based on your lack of information? Sounds like a you problem, mate.

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Originally Posted by Issac

This was making an assumption on my stance.

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You elaborated nothing but a negative stance from the get-go.

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Originally Posted by Issac

Another assumption, and quite frankly, rude.

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I don’t see what is so rude about it? You seemed to have taken what I said personally, hence probably why Bourne_Endeavor said “instead of taking this as a personal attack”.

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Originally Posted by Issac

Annnd the false claim. I never said anything about being against parsers, ever. Period. In fact, I intentionally withhold my opinions for the very reason I have three people dogpiling me at this very moment. See, the post history in this thread, and the actions of you few, has been pretty acidic. You want to put words in my mouth? Fine. This is a damn joke.

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ELABORATE.

You have done no such thing in this thread other than say it makes you sick. The conversation had shifted towards parsers, so what were people supposed to think when you respond with “this thread makes me sick” with no quotes—so no specificity on what you found sick—and no elaboration? Maybe if you had elaborated from the beginning, we would not be having this conversation now. We aren’t being the acidic ones here—I have asked multiple times for an elaboration that you won’t give. Instead, you respond with passive-aggressive rude comments. How is that not acidic in it’s own way?

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Originally Posted by Issac

That we, as a community, can be so toxic to eachother.

Also, I never attacked anyone. That's a very inaccurate statement.

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You're a prime example of this. Also, you've been very hostile and obtuse your entire time in this thread, and frankly it's appalling how hard you're trying to spin this around.

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Originally Posted by Dualgunner

people are incredibly willing to help out with class education and practice at any level.

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If you guys were serious about that you'd already be doing it with your FC mates and building up a stable of people to play with who hit that dps target. You'd be making in-game FCs about raiding and mentoring them there, which is what older MMOs did with their raid populations. There's nothing stopping people from doing it already, the parser doesn't matter one bit. The fact that people need to constantly complain about people in ex and savage shows to me that no, they are not like that and won't ever will be, because they are too used to viewing people as burdens you resent carrying if they don't measure up.

The constant annoyance with and ranking of dps does not really show me that raiders are that kind of chill people, at least the ones who care about it aren't. I don't blame them, because Se made a gameplay style where yeah, you are a burden because there is no second string force in a savage raid; no place for people who aren't skilled enough, like the raise brigades of some mmo fights. It isn't fun wiping and disbanding due to one player, I've been on both sides of that. Just wish people would be honest about it, because if they ask for a parser it won't solve the problems or use terms like garbage, burden, carry, etc, its not really this disinterested mentor stuff.

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Originally Posted by RiyahArp

If you guys were serious about that you'd already be doing it with your FC mates and building up a stable of people to play with who hit that dps target.

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Don't need to be in an FC when there's a discord full of people across all servers and data centers who are infinitely better equipped to help than an FC lead.

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You'd be making in-game FCs about raiding and mentoring them there, which is what older MMOs did with their raid populations.

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Besides which, there are plenty of raid-centric FCs.

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There's nothing stopping people from doing it already, the parser doesn't matter one bit.

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The parser matters a lot for calculating the best practical way to mix and match abilities, and carve forward a path for others to follow. It's an essential tool for number crunching a game so vague it doesn't even fully describe what half it's stats do.

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The fact that people need to constantly complain about people in ex and savage shows to me that no, they are not like that and won't ever will be, because they are too used to viewing people as burdens you resent carrying if they don't measure up.

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Then how am I supposed to view you, who are apparently too biased and angry at raiders to ever see another viewpoint? In a farm party is not the time to be learning your job. In a farm party is not the time to be learning the fight. In a farm party is not the place to expect to get tips on how to use a Summoner's pets. In a discord like the Balance, which is free and open for all to join, however, people are ready and willing to help at almost all hours of the day.

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Originally Posted by Dualgunner

You're a prime example of this. Also, you've been very hostile and obtuse your entire time in this thread, and frankly it's appalling how hard you're trying to spin this around.

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On the contrary, I feel as though I've been marked for death by a hostile party of people. Just because of how I feel of something, and defend myself from inaccurate assumptions, I am being hostile. I am being obtuse.

Just... Wow.

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Originally Posted by RiyahArp

If you guys were serious about that you'd already be doing it with your FC mates and building up a stable of people to play with who hit that dps target. You'd be making in-game FCs about raiding and mentoring them there, which is what older MMOs did with their raid populations. There's nothing stopping people from doing it already, the parser doesn't matter one bit. The fact that people need to constantly complain about people in ex and savage shows to me that no, they are not like that and won't ever will be, because they are too used to viewing people as burdens you resent carrying if they don't measure up.

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Have you heard of The Balance or Dimension X discords? Both are community founded with the intentions of helping players improve. They boast thousands of raiders with varying degrees of skill, background and personalities. Many raiders do precisely what you've suggested, however players should not be dependent on third party programs or tools because the game simply doesn't offer any information. Parsers absolutely help. How do you think all these raiders became good players? I would never be where I am right now—progging Ultimate—were I not able to see my damage and learn from theorycrafters. There are plenty of people who literally have no idea they're doing anything wrong. In fact, I once told a BLM how low his damage was when he asked and he was flat out shocked. All this time he thought he'd been improving yet had no idea. I gave him the basics I know about BLM and linked him to Elysium's guide. His damage improved immediately, all due to a dreaded parser.

It's almost like parsers are helpful tools.

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Originally Posted by Issac

On the contrary, I feel as though I've been marked for death by a hostile party of people. Just because of how I feel of something, and defend myself from inaccurate assumptions, I am being hostile. I am being obtuse.

Just... Wow.

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“Marked for death”? Dramatic, much? Again, it helps if you come into a thread with a clear position rather than just say:

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Originally Posted by Issac

This thread makes me feel sick to my stomach...

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With absolutely no context other than what the conversation in the thread is about...which is about damage numbers and, towards when you came in, parsers. Don’t be vague.