The whole Summoner "has been re-worked" is sad

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Originally Posted by SirDiscoFrog

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Honestly I can really see the reason for people to want them to focus more on the balancing on the current Egis, I just wish this whole "Egi glamour" subject wasn't a thing, or at least confined to just Carbuncle colors, with the promise of more summons unique in the future. They should focus on balancing more Egis and making them feel more important, explain that they can't add more new Egis content right now, and be at that. It just feels a little awkward whenever Summoners have a clear issue with their Egi and SE's only mention to it during the time they showed off new classes was "Egi glamour for Carbuncles!"

With concerns to any new Egis, it's really just a proper balance, and while I don't recommend a healing one (as I feel it would actually step on SCH's toes or be incredibly useless), ones that focus on buffing or AoE could be interesting. I mean, it's not like people complain that Garuda replaces ranged DPS or Ifrit replaces melee DPS, it's a matter of making the changed significant enough without being too good.

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Originally Posted by Parryacg

What people need to realise is that adding new Egis would not fix the issues that SMN faces. Big deal, we don't get Egis. It's not serious period.

It's kind of insulting that people focus on the one area that isn't the problem with Summoner and not the areas that require attention, like, I don't know, their current issues with being unable to burst?

Think of the bigger picture instead of the tunnel-vision, man. Use your head, not your desires.

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Seeing burst damage as the only problem is tunnel-vision as well. Heck, it's not that people are complaining that burst damage was added, just that it was added in a way that hardly feels something like a summoner would do. It is a problem as well whenever most people find the only pet to be useful to be Garuda, whether that's true or not is partially on the players fault though, it's SE's job to fix the problems with Summoner, one of which is making Ifrit and Titan Egi more viable.

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Originally Posted by SirDiscoFrog

However there are uses Ifrit vs Garuda, you just got to know when.

Garuda is good for when targets are constantly being switched and is a lot more helpful in AoE situations with the instant cast of her AoE and how its based off the targets position and not having to be in melee range, potentially getting hit with mob attacks or missing while mobs are being moved. Ifrit has stronger abilities and a quicker Auto Attack. The only thing making Garuda seem so needed is Contagion and the convenience of range. Ifrit can do more single target damage on his own, especially when with paired with certain debuffs.

However the problem is these differences are subtle and with Contagion and being a ranged Pet(and for how long Garuda was considered the go-to for single target when Ifirt had lower potencies and Garuda's AoE had a cast time kinda making the roles reversed), no matter what folk will flock more so to Garuda, shes not all around better per'say, just more convenient for many.

So yes while some are sick of Garuda being used 95% of the time that is a mix of people sticking to one regardless of the slight benefits of the other + the differences between the two options being subtle and in the background in a sense. However there are some who are actually are just sick of looking at Ruru, and some just don't like any of the current egi designs hence why so many want more detailing or for them to look more so like their original versions. Aesthetics is up there in the complaints for SMN, whether it be the detail of the egi design/how intimidating they look,the egi's size or it just not looking like FFXI summons, its typically brought up.

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It's a comfortability stand point really. Garuda is hardly close to even touching Ifrit in almost all environments. Her strongest strength being in dungeon adds between bosses. Both have uses even within bounds of the same fight in the end-game, but too many SMNs don't even care to move into Ifrit territory because they feel Garuda is still superior with Contagion. Its not anymore.

I'm not sure how much is needed to stand apart among them. One is a magic based AoE friendly pet and another is a melee (slashing / blunt) superior in single target. Two separate fields of expertise and two different types of attacks. SMNs at current in all content, should be switching between both Garuda and Ifrit either in the same fight or constantly in dungeons.

PS: Contagion coming off Garuda would be the final nail in the coffin for her. Not sure why anyone would support this idea. If this happens, Ifrit will dominate in every single field.

Hope dies last...
Therefore, I have hope they just had not the time to rework SMN for launch of 3.0, maybe with 4.0 - please look forward to it...

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Originally Posted by Cakekizy

What's wrong with having multiple pets that are situationally useful?

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The problem is ppl who wants a SMN trowing Nukes and Brust instead of actually rely on their egis to do DPS and actions

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Originally Posted by Samcaesar

My jets are fairly cool to be honest.

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Oh, whoops. That was meant for the person above you. Apologies for that. It's not hard to miss these sometimes when you're on the mobile. >_<

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Originally Posted by Samcaesar

You're not wrong in that we don't know, but for a class that's title is "Summoner" the snippet of info that we got hardly had anything on summons.

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Since we're here, I want to share my view on this point in particular. We have no information on the lore behind the new Dreadwyrm stack mechanic, but by the looks of it, you're summoning the power of Bahamut to unleash Akh Morn on a single target. Again, not too sure on this since it's from a lore perspective. Anyway, the lack of information towards not getting what the players wanted does not apply only on Summoners. Main point being that the Live Letter was only intended to discuss the new skills that are being introduced with the raise in level cap. Note that they did not show us all the new skills being introduced; only some of them.

Again, the lack of information on adjustments to the older skills was intentional. The information being shared was supposed to only relate to Heavensward, and not ARR. There were small hints here and there about adjustments to some of the older skills, but anything mentioned about them was vague at best (except Protect, haha). They didn't discuss the older skills because they wanted to show off the skills introduced in Heavensward. The stream was supposed to end earlier but was extended by an hour because they didn't manage to go through every job according to schedule. And they were mostly discussing on the new skills! Imagine if they added the reworks to the older skills to the list of things to discuss. @_@

Anyway, they did say that they would read the 3.0 patch notes to us in the future, so we have that to look forward to.

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Originally Posted by Samcaesar

Seeing burst damage as the only problem is tunnel-vision as well. Heck, it's not that people are complaining that burst damage was added, just that it was added in a way that hardly feels something like a summoner would do. It is a problem as well whenever most people find the only pet to be useful to be Garuda, whether that's true or not is partially on the players fault though, it's SE's job to fix the problems with Summoner, one of which is making Ifrit and Titan Egi more viable.

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Titan and ifrit Egis have their own uses, but we have no proof that it'll "hardly feel something like SMN" until we actually play it first hand.

The idea behind SMN is to use the essence of the Primals they've fought in a meaningful way. One such example is (quite obviously) Akh Morn because of Bahamut mode. More Egis creates more problems.

The best thing to do is to bandage up what currently is a problem and then work from there.

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Originally Posted by Havenchild

It's a comfortability stand point really. Garuda is hardly close to even touching Ifrit in almost all environments. Her strongest strength being in dungeon adds between bosses. Both have uses even within bounds of the same fight in the end-game, but too many SMNs don't even care to move into Ifrit territory because they feel Garuda is still superior with Contagion. Its not anymore.

I'm not sure how much is needed to stand apart among them. One is a magic based AoE friendly pet and another is a melee (slashing / blunt) superior in single target. Two separate fields of expertise and two different types of attacks. SMNs at current in all content, should be switching between both Garuda and Ifrit either in the same fight or constantly in dungeons.

PS: Contagion coming off Garuda would be the final nail in the coffin for her. Not sure why anyone would support this idea. If this happens, Ifrit will dominate in every single field.

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What situation outside of the melee friendly FInal Coil is Ifrit superior to Garuda?

Against adds Garuda will get its attack off first since Ifrit has to move to target location. They also seem to have slashing/ blunt resistances neutralizing the power of Ifrit. Finally because the adds die so quickly, the power gap doesn't close fast enough for Ifrit to outgain Garuda. All of this is assuming single target, if their are multiple adds, Garuda stomps.

Dungeon content Garuda will almost always be superior.

Even in Raids Garuda has RS/pot + contagion and can tag adds way quicker than Ifrit who has to disengage the boss to travel to target location. If MP becomes a problem, or if you happen to die, Garuda WILL be priority.

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Originally Posted by Garlyle

Months ago.

Thing about game development though, especially games which are perpetually in development (eg MMOs): Plans change. Until it's actually out, never expect anything to be exactly as stated - and even once it's out don't expect it to stay that way forever.

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in that case they need better planners.

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Originally Posted by Wizarus

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You would think all of this, but it depends on how fast mobs die. If things die in at least 18 seconds (1 Baned Bio duration non contagion) then contagion is worthless. Ifrit naturally does more damage then Garuda already without any other classes involved. He also has one AoE just like Garuda but stronger. Everyone talks about this windup that Ifrit has which is largely just a myth. He just does that much more damage that it doesn't matter. His abilities are more potent AND he does 21+ auto attacks per min that Garuda cannot do. Garuda doesn't stomp out Ifrit in all AoE situations, only certain ones. For example, T13 add phase. The first half, Ifrit is superior, while the second half Garuda is better because she has the better Enkindle at that time and things like the gusts, which survive alil longer then everything else because they cant be targeted by the party safely due to the Storm hovering right over them. People need to remember Garudas AoE superiority is based off Contagion and absolutely nothing else. If Contagion is void, so is she.

There is also an MP trouble myth that doesn't exist. When you use Ifrit, you don't use Miasma II at all on single target (the biggest drainer of MP) because you do not have Contagion, and in dungeons, it doesn't even matter because you can't Bane over Miasma IIs duration, so it all balances out. If you are running out of MP in dungeons, I have no idea what you are doing. I place DoTs, switch between Garuda and Ifrit constantly, ShadowFlare, Miasma II, and Blizzard II spam on every pull and I don't run out of MP ever.

The power gap? Ifrit closes that in a few GCDs to beat out Contagion easily. People want to play blindly on SMN nowadays like Ifrit hasn't gotten buffed at all when he has and is insanely strong now. There are very few moments, where Garuda > Ifrit. Moments like when a certain amount of adds will survive for a certain duration (~33 secs) and you have RS + Contagion when they first spawn.

IE: Progression T12 Bennu phase or when the optimal second Enkindle (aiming at multiple mobs) to use is not Ifrits 5y cone in front of him (can't get all the mobs easily lined up in front of him), like T13 when the Storm comes down.

Like I said before, all of that doesn't matter though to even have RS + Contagion, if something dies in 18 seconds which in post progression with the current gear almost happens everywhere. Works the exact same in dungeons or raids.