Rogue/Ninja Starting Class?

I wouldn't be surprised, and I honestly don't really have a problem with it. Leveling up to 50 in this MMO is extremely easy compared to others, and I'm not the only one thinking that NIN will attract a LOT of bad players. I'm not saying that getting to 50 makes you good, but maybe we will have a smaller amount of them, at least to the point that you know what a DPS class is when you hit Sastasha as a rogue. Like others have said, making Rogue/NIN available at the beginning would cause a paradox in the story, and in other Final Fantasy games, you have to level up a combination of jobs to certain levels to unlock other jobs, so it will probably be this way. Maybe this will keep us from seeing 50 versions of "xXNARUTO THEHOKAAAAAAG3Xx" when we're out in the game world. All I know is that "loldrg" will be a compliment compared to how bad most NINs will be at first.

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Originally Posted by Giantbane

Games != books

The best AAA games do not sacrifice gameplay for story/lore

They absolutely *should* do the best they can to maintain both the lore and casual/streamlined gameplay experience. However, in the hypothetical scenario where they must choose narrative against gameplay, gameplay should win. This is a game after all.

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Then we have different perspectives of what "enjoyable" is.

The main reason I don't think NIN is likely to be locked to after level 50 is because it's coming to the game before the level cap is raised. Unlocking a new job when you're already at the end of the game, leaving you nowhere new to advance to with the new job, would feel rather pointless. The next set of new jobs, the ones coming in the first expansion, along with a level cap raise, would be the first place a level 50 unlock starts to make better sense from a gameplay perspective.

And from a lore perspective, I think they still have plenty of options to go either way while keeping a vibrant, interesting, and perfectly self-consistent story going.

So, the naming of referring to ROG & NIN as a "class" and "job" suggests levels 1 and 30. Gameplay works better assuming levels 1 and 30. And since we only know a teaser portion of the lore at this point, it could work with most anything depending on the rest of the story that we don't yet know. I'm going to assume the standard 1 & 30 unless we hear differently.

There will be time enough later for SE to add a more advanced version of "classes" (probably called something else) if they want to. It's a bit early for that yet. It also would be a bit odd for them to add the whole notion of an advanced class while only giving us one of them. When and if they do expand the class->job duo into a class->job->something else trio, I expect we'll be getting at least as many specialties in that third tier as we have now in the first two, which would also make it the sort of feature that belongs in a full expansion and not just an update.

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Originally Posted by MirielleLavandre

Like most have said - everyone, including me, posting about this wouldn't really be affected if they decided to gate the job behind 2.3. Most of us have it done and, if anything, could finish up to 2.3 in a night. What the issue is are the new people who this new class and job could potentially bring in as paying customers.

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The game is based around leveling multiple class, so people WILL play something beside NIN. If they buy the game only if they can play ROG from the start, that means they're seriously narrow minded.
FF XIV is different from other game because it puts great emphasis on its lore and story. Throwing it away for the first major gameply addition is pretty stupid.

And after all, a lot of things are restricted from start. You wanna roam the land to hunt notorious monsters ? Get to lvl50. You wanna play in Duty with a full party ? Get to level 50. You wanna play PvP ? Get to lvl50 (And ilvl80, too).

But, I think that they'll open ROG from the start, sadly. Why ?
Because Yoshida made clear that ROG will have an official guild. When you see the first Rogues, they agree to meet you only because of your "connections". Were you a commoner, they'd never have talked to you. Following this, they'd probably hide their guild if they don't want everyone barging in. The fun part ? They could have kept the name "Thief", following this string of thougths.
If they're Rogue, that means they're out in the open. That means everybody can walk in join their guild, anytime.

And if Rogue is open from the start, I doubt NIN will be tied to 2.2.
Or, they'll make Rogue really interesting to play even past lvl30 since "everybody want to play Thief, and Rogue is Thief", but you could unlock NIN only if you clear 2.2.

Everyone keeps talking about gameplay, lore continuance, changes in class/job, theories on how things could/would/should change. But no one is addressing the thing I keep saying; PR and money. SE is a company. Hurting the feelings of those that love the story and lore (which I do, myself) is less risky and less likely to result in losing dollars than potentially losing new players who want to play NIN. From a risk management and cost analysis factor, not gaming this or gaming that, SE will most likely go with the most financially beneficial choice.

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Originally Posted by MirielleLavandre

Hurting the feelings of those that love the story and lore (which I do, myself) is less risky and less likely to result in losing dollars than potentially losing new players who want to play NIN.

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Not to mention that anyone that is in love with the story to the point that they will be mortally wounded by this minor blip in the narrative will have already passed the point where ninja is unlocked. Thus they will never experience this and it will not ruin the story for them. Further mitigating the "damage" that might be caused.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

The game is based around leveling multiple class, so people WILL play something beside NIN. If they buy the game only if they can play ROG from the start, that means they're seriously narrow minded.

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If this were their mindset, I think they would have placed a greater emphasis on powerful cross class skills, such that leveling multiple classes would be mandatory to playing your character well. While there are some pretty useful cross class skills, none of them are really required save for Provoke on the WAR when you get to Titan EX and above.

Up till now, they didn't seem to want to force players to level up too far with multiple classes if they didn't want to. Only thing that's really required is 15 in another class to unlock the job, but that's it. I would be surprised if they changed this by asking you to level up one class to max and do some additional unlock questing just for the ability to start completely over with another class at level 1.

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Originally Posted by Niwashi

The main reason I don't think NIN is likely to be locked to after level 50 is because it's coming to the game before the level cap is raised. Unlocking a new job when you're already at the end of the game, leaving you nowhere new to advance to with the new job, would feel rather pointless.

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I disagree on that because releasing the job before the level cap will make it more attractive. If you release it with a level cap, you can either level NIN (if your goal is to main it) and slightly gimp yourself because it will take longer to reach the new cap, or continue with your current main so you can start gearing up sooner. People choosing to main NIN at the release of a level cap would always be behind everyone else on gear, making them even less attractive for endgame fights. Other MMOs certainly release new classes with new level caps, but more people would main a new job under the current level cap.

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Originally Posted by Giantbane

f this were their mindset, I think they would have placed a greater emphasis on powerful cross class skills, such that leveling multiple classes would be mandatory to playing your character well. While there are some pretty useful cross class skills, none of them are really required save for Provoke on the WAR when you get to Titan EX and above.

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I don't know what jobs you're playing, but x-class skills ARE powerful. Some are a nice bonus to utility like Eye for an Eye and Virus on BLM, Stoneskin on PLD, but others like Internal Release, Blood for Blood, and Mercy Stroke are very powerful indeed and almost a necessity for any serious endgame fight. Swiftcast is almost a necessity, and Provoke certainly is one.

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Originally Posted by Giantbane

Not to mention that anyone that is in love with the story to the point that they will be mortally wounded by this minor blip in the narrative will have already passed the point where ninja is unlocked. Thus they will never experience this and it will not ruin the story for them. Further mitigating the "damage" that might be caused.

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Unless, y'know, they make an alt. Or if they're a new player who loves the story but hasn't gotten far. >_>

Not trying to imply that locking it behind Through the Maelstrom is the only option or anything, just that every path I see from here is going to be annoying to some part of the fan base.

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Originally Posted by Odett

I don't know what jobs you're playing, but x-class skills ARE powerful. Some are a nice bonus to utility like Eye for an Eye and Virus on BLM, Stoneskin on PLD, but others like Internal Release, Blood for Blood, and Mercy Stroke are very powerful indeed and almost a necessity for any serious endgame fight. Swiftcast is almost a necessity, and Provoke certainly is one.

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Maybe mandatory in savage coil, not anywhere else. It all caps out at 10% effectiveness for limited durations. Switfcast is okish for shadow flare, but not mandatory. It's awesome for res but you only need that if someone sucks and dies. Virus doesn't stack very well. Stoneskin for PLD is an extra 700hp only when you can fit the cast time in and don't get interrupted. Inner release & mercy stroke are particularly weak (except inner release on the BRD), but they're DPS boosts and if you want extra DPS it's better than nothing.

I mean, when you're maxing your character's capabilities you SHOULD get all the cross class abilities. But you can still operate at 90-95% max efficiency without a single cross class. Even then, most cross classes are available before level 15, so you have some of them without even leveling that far. It's a far weaker component of your character's overall strength than sub classing was in FFXI. Pretty sure that's intentional.

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Originally Posted by Viridiana

Unless, y'know, they make an alt.

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If they're making an alt to specifically play ninja, I have a hard time believing anyone wants to level up a whole other class they don't intend to play. Regardless of whether or not they'll admit it.