So, how is Pagos?

It’s still bad.

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Originally Posted by Starblessed

Pagos was great before the nerf.

Now it's populated by afkers because Square caved in nerfing something that didn't need to be nerfed. I hope the third area is ten times the grind OG Pagos was.

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I've noticed less Base camp AFKers, before nerfs we had 60+ people almost always camping waiting for NMs, since nerfs now I notice number is around 20 - 30 people afking at spawn.

My original plan was to hit 35 and get one relic.
So far I've only managed to do the challenge log for 2 weeks. Trying to grind in Eureka Pagos is the most bored I've ever been in XIV and I've done huge grinds before like Yo-kai and both ARR and HW relics while they were current. It's honestly making me miss Diadem since I could at least make steady progress towards the mount with Spoils.

I sincerely hope that SE puts the 3 TT cards in there on npcs in the future since they can't be traded between players. Even if I get motivated enough to go back there's a lot of awful RNG to get through for the happy bunny one. =/

I've been through a lot of content, both relevant and old. I'm about to hit 14k achievement points for that matter, with all the work I've done, including some already-excessive grinding. Pagos is terrible, loaded with bad design choices, void of good features, and reminiscent of the things I hated about XI (which I additionally played during the lowest point in my life).

Pushing myself to get four weapons done is torture, and I feel like I should be demanding a paycheck from SE.

Still haven't even done my first weapon. Can't believe they haven't made any adjustments to the light grind yet, and with only 2 weeks until 4.4. I'm convinced they're not listening to any of the feedback about the light grind.

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Originally Posted by Moomba33

I sincerely hope that SE puts the 3 TT cards in there on npcs in the future since they can't be traded between players. Even if I get motivated enough to go back there's a lot of awful RNG to get through for the happy bunny one. =/

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If it helps I got The Snow Queen Card 4 times in about 25 wins, The Happy Bunny Card on my 18th Silver Chest, (52nd Chest overall) and 2 Louhi cards in 10 wins.

But its all RNG so it can be much worse. But overall my experience getting them was not too horrid. Though the bunnies were a bit mind numbing and way too many chests were bronze.

I'll be honest... I still hate the entire bunny mechanics of Pagos. This is the core reason why I haven't even bothered to try it at all till date.

Dragons need to go or make it where if one pulls a dragon doesn't hit others with frost breath. When ones do that should be a auto kick from pragos with penalty. They need think of others around them when they pull mobs like dragons.

People getting killed by mobs that are chasing others around is always going to be a problem as long as they take so long to reset.

The dragons honestly aren't that bad because they take a really long time to use their breath, whereas enemies like the serpents in Anemos had instant cast cleaves that were very prone to killing others and they'd use within the first few seconds of them being engaged.

I remember someone who pulled his face aggro'ed mobs through my Salted Earth field, so that i got all the aggro.

I think it was just a careless accident, but with the death penalty in place stuff like this really sucks.

Are they going to make any more adjustments to Pagos. Or should we wait until it's nerfed to the ground?

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Originally Posted by Derio

Are they going to make any more adjustments to Pagos. Or should we wait until it's nerfed to the ground?

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There busy with patch 4.4 now so I wouldn’t expect any more adjustments or nerfs for roughly 4 to 6 weeks.

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Originally Posted by hynaku

Dragons need to go or make it where if one pulls a dragon doesn't hit others with frost breath. When ones do that should be a auto kick from pragos with penalty. They need think of others around them when they pull mobs like dragons.

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If only the genre were redesigned so there wasn't as much toxicity from other players in open world content or such consequences for dying

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Originally Posted by Hyperia

There busy with patch 4.4 now so I wouldn’t expect any more adjustments or nerfs for roughly 4 to 6 weeks.

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I'm waiting for Pagos improvements before I even consider playing 4.4.

I want to see that they're able to create enjoyable content before committing to the game. If Pagos is confirmed as "this is how we want the game to be from now on" then ff14 just isn't for me anymore.

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Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

I'm waiting for Pagos improvements before I even consider playing 4.4.

I want to see that they're able to create enjoyable content before committing to the game. If Pagos is confirmed as "this is how we want the game to be from now on" then ff14 just isn't for me anymore.

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Supposedly, they are developing Pyros as an improved Anemos. As in, the reception was so poor, they're all but abandoning the Pagos design.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...tion_on_pyros/

Of course, take this with a grain of salt. After all, they have said a lot of things that turned out to be, well... poorly executed.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

Supposedly, they are developing Pyros as an improved Anemos. As in, the reception was so poor, they're all but abandoning the Pagos design.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...tion_on_pyros/

Of course, take this with a grain of salt. After all, they have said a lot of things that turned out to be, well... poorly executed.

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That translation is pretty vague so I'm not holding out much hope. Pagos got released as a bit of content that no thought went into making it fun and if that has me really worried for the next one.

I am also hoping that they have learned their lesson but the challenges I see is that the maps and mechanics of the Eureka instances were done a very long time ago. Trying to retrofit what they have learned into it will definitely take some time, possibly more time than they have. With this in mind, I am not holding my breath for anything amazing but hopefully more workable than Pagos.

Pagos felt like it was pure revenge for how the community devised the NM train and had fun in a way that they did not intend nor want.

I haven't been playing Eureka for a long time now and haven't gotten my first "Relic" yet before they nerfed I heard. What exactly did they do? I've been out of the loop for a while and I think I'm like level 12 - 15 there. Been too long.

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Originally Posted by VirusChris

I haven't been playing Eureka for a long time now and haven't gotten my first "Relic" yet before they nerfed I heard. What exactly did they do? I've been out of the loop for a while and I think I'm like level 12 - 15 there. Been too long.

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They didn't do much to change the enjoyment, or lack of. NM's give more xp, so players can get back to the fate train scenario if they want. You're still faced with a mind numbing grind.
And if you're still walking through there, you can have the pleasure of watching the NM get killed before you get anywhere near it.

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Originally Posted by VirusChris

I haven't been playing Eureka for a long time now and haven't gotten my first "Relic" yet before they nerfed I heard. What exactly did they do? I've been out of the loop for a while and I think I'm like level 12 - 15 there. Been too long.

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They forced chain parties as the only efficient means of progression. Due to how quickly chains can break at higher levels (up to 30), this makes pausing at any point an extreme detriment. They eventually buffed NM experience but NMs are second fiddle to trash mob grinding since they added a light farm step. So unlike Anemos where the entire instance helped kill things, you have parties splitting off or fighting over the best light mobs. Basically, it's an enormous grind where you'll spend 95% of your time killing trash mobs repeatedly for hours and hours. What makes it worse is high level players have very little reason to help lower level players now, thus it's extremely difficult to level, especially given how unpopular Pagos is.

Pagos is getting toxic because of the chains and people unwilling or unable to help (sleeping dragons). I watched people one after another ask for rezzes and never get one. I miss Anemos...

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Originally Posted by Hyperia

Pagos is getting toxic because of the chains and people unwilling or unable to help (sleeping dragons). I watched people one after another ask for rezzes and never get one. I miss Anemos...

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Yeah it’s really sad bc those ppl won’t help for 2 reasons.
1. It takes the full party to keep the China going
2. Ppl will steal prime light grind spots.

What SE need to get through their heads is that ppl will figure out the path of least resistance. Remember when ppl figured out in 1st Coil of Bahamut Turn 2 to wait for the ADS to go berserk and DPS the crap out of it. Making content that can only be done 1 way is punishment. Stop doing that. We love this game we’ll play the content just don’t punish us for finding and easy / fun way to do it.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

What makes it worse is high level players have very little reason to help lower level players now, thus it's extremely difficult to level, especially given how unpopular Pagos is.

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And due to this, I've resigned myself to do my weekly challenge log and that's it. Currently 27. Only 8 more weeks to go!

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Originally Posted by drgnmstr44

No one is saying abandon the open instance concept or content. They hot fix NM spawn rates and XP got practically trippled to help get players to 35, yet outright refuse to address the now evident issues with light gains. People don't spawn NMs anymore. Hell I've seen 2 louhi spawns in the last two weeks going there. You need things from the NMs but practically none get spawned. everyone is so focused on getting light that NMs don't matter anymore. Light gains are broken and need a fix. When the vast majority of players in the instance are 35 and farming light, fighting each other over places to get light, it's broken. NMs aren't even worth trying to spawn unless you need their items and you might as well forget about the required Ice for step three because no one is spawning that either. They need to own up to it being broken and make some changes. Its obvious that gains are light are completely random, sporadic, and in dire need of a boost.

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I played XI and this game as well, I'm well acquainted with the grind. Pagos has been a huge, unpleasant timesink post 35. As you said the big issue is two dragon camp spots and not enough real estate to go around. I've been in several dragon parties where other groups come in and overcamp on top of us on purpose. With two parties competing for the same mob, it's a loss of light. As party leader, I politely tell the other group that we have been here the whole time and we won't give up our spot. It does not make a difference. It's annoying and night after night I generally log off the game agitated and ready for the light grind to be over. I'm not even going to attempt farming multiple weapons for my other 70s because of the headache involved, I'll help my FC mates with theirs.

I'm guessing there are a couple of ways to address the issue, though I'm not sure what is best. Placing another dragon in proximity to a couple of the single dragons might be one way to tackle the problem. Make no mistake, overcamp is a problem though. If it's working as intended, it is not efficient and needs to be called out as such. And yes, there are other things to farm, say chimera for example. Probably the second best option (unless someone knows something I don't). However, instead of a little over 30 min farming x amount of light, you'd farm 50 min for the same. It's not ideal. As you say, maybe upping the amount of light on the other mobs would boost the issue as well. But for now, dragons are really the only viable legal option for maximum light.

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Originally Posted by NovaBismarck

I'm guessing there are a couple of ways to address the issue, though I'm not sure what is best. Placing another dragon in proximity to a couple of the single dragons might be one way to tackle the problem. Make no mistake, overcamp is a problem though. If it's working as intended, it is not efficient and needs to be called out as such. And yes, there are other things to farm, say chimera for example. Probably the second best option (unless someone knows something I don't). However, instead of a little over 30 min farming x amount of light, you'd farm 50 min for the same. It's not ideal. As you say, maybe upping the amount of light on the other mobs would boost the issue as well. But for now, dragons are really the only viable legal option for maximum light.

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How about this, remove the dragons and give improved lights to all 35+ mobs. This resolves the travel deaths issue and massively improves the light targets. At 35+, almost the entire north side is usable. Though, I would massively boost the lights on NMs as well.

Kinda why I wish they would have just done bonus light windows with it rotating between mobs every 1-2 hours. So many mob camps that are just there for show cause they offer no benefits. Actually have people communicating and working together to see what has a bonus instead of fighting over 2 camps. Our options for farming light in a steady manner should never be restricted to 2 parties in a instance that allows 144 people.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

Supposedly, they are developing Pyros as an improved Anemos. As in, the reception was so poor, they're all but abandoning the Pagos design.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...tion_on_pyros/

Of course, take this with a grain of salt. After all, they have said a lot of things that turned out to be, well... poorly executed.

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Well, that's something in the right direction. I'll keep an eye on it and see how it goes.

I might complain, but I do love many things about ff14. I'd love to see it do well and draw me back in.

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Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

I might complain, but I do love many things about ff14. I'd love to see it do well and draw me back in.

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Most of the people who complain care about this game, that's why they complain to begin with, that's the catch.

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Originally Posted by NovaBismarck

I played XI and this game as well, I'm well acquainted with the grind. Pagos has been a huge, unpleasant timesink post 35. As you said the big issue is two dragon camp spots and not enough real estate to go around. I've been in several dragon parties where other groups come in and overcamp on top of us on purpose. With two parties competing for the same mob, it's a loss of light. As party leader, I politely tell the other group that we have been here the whole time and we won't give up our spot. It does not make a difference. It's annoying and night after night I generally log off the game agitated and ready for the light grind to be over. I'm not even going to attempt farming multiple weapons for my other 70s because of the headache involved, I'll help my FC mates with theirs.

I'm guessing there are a couple of ways to address the issue, though I'm not sure what is best. Placing another dragon in proximity to a couple of the single dragons might be one way to tackle the problem. Make no mistake, overcamp is a problem though. If it's working as intended, it is not efficient and needs to be called out as such. And yes, there are other things to farm, say chimera for example. Probably the second best option (unless someone knows something I don't). However, instead of a little over 30 min farming x amount of light, you'd farm 50 min for the same. It's not ideal. As you say, maybe upping the amount of light on the other mobs would boost the issue as well. But for now, dragons are really the only viable legal option for maximum light.

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Thanks Nova, this summarizes one of my many frustrated stances towards Pagos quite well. I really wanted to like Pagos, I really did... however, the chain reactions (excuse the "pun"), the stupid bunny chase crap, the irregular NM spawns, the competitive nature generated from camp locations are just... *(rubs temples)*

I stand in awe at the number of people unwilling to simply dismiss Eureka as trash. It's always a "it's bad but I hope," or "maybe some day" when it really should be an uncompromising "directly contradicts the impetus for A Realm Reborn."

You don't "Reborn" content by bringing back designs superceded a decade past.

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Originally Posted by van_arn

I stand in awe at the number of people unwilling to simply dismiss Eureka as trash. It's always a "it's bad but I hope," or "maybe some day" when it really should be an uncompromising "directly contradicts the impetus for A Realm Reborn."

You don't "Reborn" content by bringing back designs superceded a decade past.

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I think the problem is that the way the game is designed only exacerbates the pitfall experienced in both versions of gameplay. we are being asked to chain grind monsters without the socializing, for a reward that is outdated with easier efforts, and a reward that doesn't do anything impressive or grant anything other than look pretty. Is it worth busting your hands for a glowy weapon that is of limited effectiveness?

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Originally Posted by Kallera

I think the problem is that the way the game is designed only exacerbates the pitfall experienced in both versions of gameplay. we are being asked to chain grind monsters without the socializing, for a reward that is outdated with easier efforts, and a reward that doesn't do anything impressive or grant anything other than look pretty. Is it worth busting your hands for a glowy weapon that is of limited effectiveness?

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"At odds with the design of the combat and socializing systems" is a longer way of saying trash. Even if the reward was second to none, it would still be trash content at odds with the combat and socializing systems in this particular game.

This isn't even bringing in the garbage with antiquated systems that were replaced years ago for ironclad reasons to *not* do things the way they were done before.

Eureka at it's core missed the point as to what players wanted, they didn't want an extension to the relic grind aka having to level in a unique zone to reach the point to grind for relic, they wanted a challenge. Eureka's 2 stages have none of this, it's just a zerg.

When you think about it, 2.X's starting relic had it right, unique encounters, that were challenging for the time, Mantictore and hydra 8-man content but then they rolled back and made it grinding content for the sake of grinding.

Relic should feel like something that is earned and takes time but there should be some challenge to it, a challenge that makes players better. not quite Savage level but maybe closer to Extreme Primal content with other options to achieve relic. Relic only having one path of achievement also hurts, if players want to just grind grind grind away, let them have that option but then also provide an option for 4-8, 24 man groups to not only get relic quicker but to also have something they can sink their teeth into.

If SE learns anything from Eureka it should be that relic shouldn't be pure grind, there should be a challenge that goes past spend X hours doing the same thing til you get everything.

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Originally Posted by Airget

provide an option for 4-8, 24 man groups to not only get relic quicker but to also have something they can sink their teeth into.

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We already have it, it's called "Savage".

I'm genuinely surprised. I seriously thought they would make adjustments this week in preparation for 4.4 next week.

And yet here we are. 3 weeks with no changes. No adjustments. Despite all the promises that they would continue to do so.

I tried the dragon grind last night. It was awful. Not because of the issues being experienced on the NA servers with open hostility. On the JP servers everything is very courteous; if a group already has a spot it's either (a) go find another spot or (b) wait your turn. My issue was the feeble light gain. All the way to a 30 chain, it was feeble of feebleness all the way. Didn't even make half a bar.

Enjoying it so far! it could be better but to me personally it doesnt feel as daunting as previous relics. Hopin in every once in a while doing fate and spawning nms, chaining mobs Im at level 32 with 10 bars of aether filled. Should be 35 by this weekend and then I can rez and cart ppl comfortably while I farm. Havent had any bad experiences thus far!

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Originally Posted by Ryannex

What I'm gobsmacked about is how they have said we haven't found the correct way to farm light - yet they refuse to tell us or even give a hint.

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SE has done this since XI.
There's no reason for them to start spilling the beans now.

Honestly a super easy way to fix Pagos is to just let us turn Pagos Crystals into either light or Protean Crystals like Anemos, by the time I finished my first relic I already had another set of 500 and I just thought about how much easier it would have been if they actually had a use outside of the second upgrade step.

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Originally Posted by Canadane

SE has done this since XI.
There's no reason for them to start spilling the beans now.

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The reason is A Realm Reborn, and Yoshida overturning the company to cure their Final Fantasy disease.

Eureka stinks of the same hubris that made the original launch so terrible, so much so that I'm beginning to think Yoshida himself has caught it.

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Originally Posted by van_arn

The reason is A Realm Reborn, and Yoshida overturning the company to cure their Final Fantasy disease.

Eureka stinks of the same hubris that made the original launch so terrible, so much so that I'm beginning to think Yoshida himself has caught it.

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Eureka was made by the staff who were brought over from XI so it does make sense that they are not in total sync with XIV. Yoshi is so busy now with everything going on, that he is not able to QA every nuance of the new content and has to trust others. When a problem comes up, he will intervene and then he is off to dealing with other problems. I’m not making excuses, just saying how it is now.