Yoshi P to Mr.Happy "Heal DPS is not mandatory and no expectation for Healer to DPS!"

Where do think all these great dungeon /gpose screenshots come from :^)

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Originally Posted by akaneakki

Can people be honest here, which healer would you rather have in group, me or the other? Its a legit question, since you both now seen how both plays too.

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Is it bad I almost want to say the other just to see if it's actually possible to have a 90% overheal? >.>

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Originally Posted by Fyce

In short terms, they made the deliberate choice to be a burden on their team while refusing any kind of self improvement, and a lot of people are not okay with that.

So, as I said, when you start hitting a brick wall over and over again, you'll probably start to lose your temper too.
That's where the over saturation of sarcasm, exageration and even insults come from.

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sorry to get into the talk between you two but i really want to say

this is not good for anyone and it is also the reason i feel so dislike about the "Should" mentality

I leave the game at 2.0 return at 3.0, and leave at 3.1 return at 3.5, and the first thing i saw when i return was the sarcasm and exaggeration

I welcome healer do dmg in dungeon when he/she feel safe to do, but all these sarcasm and exaggeration give me a really bad impression and making me start feeling empathy for healer

I mean encouraging new healer to try is a nice thing, but if we all do it the right way by patience teaching, giving advice, wouldn't it be more efficient and welcoming

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Originally Posted by SaitoHikari

To be honest, the link should have been extended by another 2-3 seconds so that people will actually see the dolls being broken INSTANTLY by the White Mage. Knowing some people here, the point will fly over their heads otherwise.

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I will upload full video tomorrow. Just went to bed, but yah I broke them both out in 2 cds.

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Originally Posted by KisaiTenshi

This is how I play the game:
https://youtu.be/QhWxJ_glQoY

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Can you show us how YOU actually play? All I see is a healing bot. Terribly programmed too.

As expected, everything turned out the way I predicted

http://i.imgur.com/xpXYVKf.png

The trolls did exactly what I expected them to do, watch little or nothing of the video, and make belligerent quips about me being bad at the game.

Entire context for everything below.

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Originally Posted by KisaiTenshi

None of you had enough time to watch it. So please, I posted it knowing full well the trolls would use it as ammo, but felt that nobody had posted any video of people having fun.

http://i.imgur.com/LTQKuYH.png

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Originally Posted by KisaiTenshi

This is how I play the game:
https://youtu.be/QhWxJ_glQoY

Pretty much every "healer must DPS" is going to look at that and go "you suck", yet:

- Content was cleared
- Content was not spoiled
- I was not overgeared for the content
- Bard DPS was writing puns at every opportunity (and the entire reason the chat had to be blocked at all)
- Tank was responding to the puns with groans and comments similar to that
- Bard has all their combat classes at 60, and appears to main Bard
- Tank has all their combat classes at 60, and appears to main Scholar
- Dragoon is playing their only level 60 DPS class
- Bard and Tank clearly know each other and are on the same FC.

- I healed primarily using Cure / Cure II and brought out other healing options when I felt it was called for. You know, the way the upcoming V4.0 WHM Lily system would benefit from.


Nobody was telling anyone how to play their role. Everyone was having fun. That is how I prefer to play PUG content.

So give it a rest. Yoshi-P has made his intentions clear multiple times since the beginning of the game, and every time, "the meta" turns people into obnoxious trolls. Let players experience the content for themselves and if you don't like how other people play, form a static with like-minded people and leave the duty finder alone.

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Originally Posted by Khaidal

Be glad you did. The Calcabrina fight drove me bonkers.

https://youtu.be/QhWxJ_glQoY?t=34m3s

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that video makes my head hurt. I know let me look at this ****ing wall and spam medica for a DRG that isn't in range. whats that he didn't get hp back.....medica, medica, medica

I can understand not wanting to dps cause you're learning or whatnot but I can't stand people who just stand around doing nothing after a regen

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Originally Posted by akaneakki

Can people be honest here, which healer would you rather have in group, me or the other? Its a legit question, since you both now seen how both plays too.

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https://youtu.be/eC8PuW58I-M
vs
https://youtu.be/QhWxJ_glQoY

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Originally Posted by akaneakki

I will upload full video tomorrow. Just went to bed, but yah I broke them both out in 2 cds.

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bu bu,.. THE OVERGEAR!! (though she neglects 2 people in her pt WAS overgeared, lamo)

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Originally Posted by KisaiTenshi

As expected, everything turned out the way I predicted

http://i.imgur.com/xpXYVKf.png

The trolls did exactly what I expected them to do, watch little or nothing of the video, and make belligerent quips about me being bad at the game.

Entire context for everything below.

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WRONG and you lied about the gear:

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Originally Posted by Ama_Hamada

LAMO! the drk is in the range of ilevel 260 and the brd is i270 or i268-i270 The only 2 in min entry gear was the drg and healer but since the brd was clueless on rotations, there was no dps at all and it took 37 mins.. just rofl.

Looking closer I would guess the drk is pure i270 gear with i255 weapon

There is no way a party like that should take 37 minutes to clear that. my god. So much overhealing rofl, and this is the person saying pure healing has no downtime....
I guess 37 min runs is the norm when no one bothers to AoE dps.

KisaiTenshi , know how I know the gear levels of your party? I am observant, I know what the norm tends to be for a given job. Also the brd had the glaring 275 relic, that is hard to miss, you where acting like all 4 where min level enter when it was really 2 people that over geared but clueless while the other 2 members was min level entry and clueless how to play.

I carry crap like this and I never break the mid 20's because I am healing DPS or know what the hell I am doing on SMN. Also looks like you are not a pure clicker:
https://youtu.be/eC8PuW58I-M?t=108

I think it is a pure joke a pure clicker has more observational skills then you and can tell what is going on, while outperforming you in healing and healing DPS.

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You failed to comment on this, also does not matter if the 2 overgears where taking, they played poorly, is the bottom line, and the DRG was clueless as well that did not know what an AoE is.

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Originally Posted by Amirya

Having absolutely nothing I care to contribute, I ask only this:

Where in the bloody heck are all of you finding these amazing tanks/dps who are so skilled at mitigating damage and dodging avoidables, that the healers can do nothing for a full minute or more? Seriously. Even when I'm dpsing as a healer, I always seem to be healing at least once every thirty seconds (if the party is skilled).

Alternatively, where the heck are all of you amazing tanks/dps who are skilled at mitigating damage and dodging avoidables, the healers cannot not move and must therefore be spamming the jump button? (I can count, on one hand, the number of non-dpsing jumping healers.)

I really really want to know where to find this magical land: Where the tanks and DPS are so perfect in avoiding HP-loss, that the healers literally forget how to heal for 60+ seconds and have their brain transform into a sugar-high of spacebar spam.

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To be honest, I don't actually run into that many healers that don't even bother to DPS. Usually the healers I run into fall into four categories.

- (40%) Healers that will stance dance and can clearly balance DPSing and healing at once. Ironically I run into many healers completely new to the dungeon that will actually try to DPS, and it looks so natural for them.
- (25%) Healers that are on the path to trying to stance dance, but are either undergeared and thus shouldn't really try to unless they know how to force open DPS windows for themselves, or are having difficulty adjusting overall (fumbling with the Cleric Stance button, for instance).
- (20%) Healers that don't want to DPS in most cases due to really bad experiences in other parties at specific parts of a dungeon. Understandable. I run into many healers that don't even attempt to DPS during the first part of Baelsar's Wall (even I wouldn't risk anything beyond a single Holy and Assize for this part, since 90% of runs I end up in have tanks pulling either the entire first section or at least all the way up to the bridge), but will switch to full on murder mode for the rest of the dungeon.
- (15%) Healers that just flat out refuse to DPS at all, even when they're in full i270 gear. Although in some cases, I can't tell if they're just lazy or their reaction speed is really, really slow to even RISK trying to DPS, since I've run into 'pure healers' that apparently pay so little attention that random DPS will die due to ripping hate off of the tank, when a single heal over a 10 second period would have saved them.

So yeah, healers that do flat out refuse to DPS these days are actually becoming rarer. But as with all things on the internet and in life, bad experiences tend to be exaggerated, and good experiences go unrecorded. Looking through my stream archive for the past two weeks, I couldn't find any footage of any healers that didn't DPS at all in my roulettes - or at least the ones I randomly recorded.

Every single dungeon run would end before the 17 minute mark, to boot.

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Originally Posted by KisaiTenshi

This is how I play the game:
https://youtu.be/QhWxJ_glQoY

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I felt offended after watching this

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Originally Posted by KisaiTenshi

I'm not ignoring anything. Trolls put you on the defensive, and you let them win if you respond to their irrelevant distractions.

This is how I play the game:
https://youtu.be/QhWxJ_glQoY

Pretty much every "healer must DPS" is going to look at that and go "you suck", yet:

- Content was cleared
- Content was not spoiled
- I was not overgeared for the content
- Bard DPS was writing puns at every opportunity (and the entire reason the chat had to be blocked at all)
- Tank was responding to the puns with groans and comments similar to that
- Bard has all their combat classes at 60, and appears to main Bard
- Tank has all their combat classes at 60, and appears to main Scholar
- Dragoon is playing their only level 60 DPS class
- Bard and Tank clearly know each other and are on the same FC.

- I healed primarily using Cure / Cure II and brought out other healing options when I felt it was called for. You know, the way the upcoming V4.0 WHM Lily system would benefit from.


Nobody was telling anyone how to play their role. Everyone was having fun. That is how I prefer to play PUG content.

So give it a rest. Yoshi-P has made his intentions clear multiple times since the beginning of the game, and every time, "the meta" turns people into obnoxious trolls. Let players experience the content for themselves and if you don't like how other people play, form a static with like-minded people and leave the duty finder alone.

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The Good
-Your use of Cure and Cure II for the MT was mostly good and did very little overheal overall (aside from a few panic cures)

The Bad
-I don't think I ever saw you use Tetra once and the only time I thought I saw Shroud was in the final fight.
-You judgement for Cure's on the non-MTs was bad. You actually healed the DRG twice during the dungeon run for only 200HP with a 3K heal.
-Lack of Assize usage overall it felt.
-You're lucky the fight for Calcabrina ended when it did because the DRG had moved outta your Medica range, showing a lack of positional awareness.

The Ugly
-You could've prevented the first wipe on the second boss (and the Dragoon dying twice on the second attempt). Again, lack of Tetra (and even Benediction) when it could've saved you from dying after the first set of rocks and saved the DRG on the second attempt. Also not reviving the DRG after the second death in a fight with a mini-DPS check was probably a bad idea overall.
- [edit] Oh, also not quite sure what your thoughts behind your Divine Seal usage was - seemed extremely random and inefficient, let alone feeling quite infrequent.


I can understand being unfamiliar with the content as it seemed like you returned recently and that your gear score could use some help. Though you probably should've equipped that belt you won after the first boss~ Also if you're going to eat an AoE you should at least attempt to eat as few as possible.

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Originally Posted by Opswar

I felt offended after watching this

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I had to que into a leveling roulette to help me cleanse myself of seeing that and spending 90% of the time in cleric stance. My FC is also collectively saying what the hell am i watching

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Originally Posted by Ama_Hamada

bu bu,.. THE OVERGEAR!! (though she neglects 2 people in her pt WAS overgeared, lamo



WRONG and you lied about the gear:

You failed to comment on this, also does not matter if the 2 overgears where taking, they played poorly, is the bottom line, and the DRG was clueless as well that did not know what an AoE is.

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Where did I say anything about the gear they were equipped with. I said the tank and bard had all their combat classes at 60, that is all. This was a DF group and the only reason I know this is I inspected the lodestone after the dungeon. I've made every attempt to avoid dragging them into this discussion. Leave them alone.

If you want to pooh-pooh how I play, that's fine by me, but since you primarily seem to be hellbent on harassing me from thread to thread, pardon me if I don't care what you think.

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Originally Posted by KisaiTenshi

This is how I play the game:
https://youtu.be/QhWxJ_glQoY

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Hi, I'm Kisa Kisa, welcome to Jackass!

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Originally Posted by Ghishlain

The Good
-Your use of Cure and Cure II for the MT was mostly good and did very little overheal overall (aside from a few panic cures)

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I saw a lot of overhealing with Cure/Cure II in that video.

- Tank dropped to 98%? Better cast Cure!
- Just casted a random Aero II without Cleric Stance (aka waste of MP) and a mob hit the tank? Better cast Cure II!
- Something will bash the tank for 100 damage in the next half a second, better cast Cure!

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Originally Posted by Zarex

that video makes my head hurt. I know let me look at this ****ing wall and spam medica for a DRG that isn't in range. whats that he didn't get hp back.....medica, medica, medica

I can understand not wanting to dps cause you're learning or whatnot but I can't stand people who just stand around doing nothing after a regen

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That's what ticks me off the most. She just stood there and let the tank break the DPS out alone. Plus, she did the medica thing more than once. I noticed her missing people during trash pulls. She needs to learn the range of medica.

So telling someone to play better is taboo while promoting bad gameplay isn't? :thinking:

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Originally Posted by KisaiTenshi

Where did I say anything about the gear they were equipped with. I said the tank and bard had all their combat classes at 60, that is all. This was a DF group and the only reason I know this is I inspected the lodestone after the dungeon. I've made every attempt to avoid dragging them into this discussion. Leave them alone.

If you want to pooh-pooh how I play, that's fine by me, but since you primarily seem to be hellbent on harassing me from thread to thread, pardon me if I don't care what you think.

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You said or try to imply healers need spam healing if everyone was at min entry. 2 people where max geared, I am telling you they are incase you did not know that since you lack observational skills. What people have leveled does not flippin matter at all, guessing someone's main is also nonsense. Someone can be good at all jobs or trash at most jobs regardless of gear.

The only harassing going on is YOU telling people how to play content you can't even access saying you need to always heal as a healer, and ignoring everything when it proves otherwise. It is not harassment when someone wants to prevent people from being mislead , like you doing is acceptable, when it isn't.

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Originally Posted by Opswar

So telling someone to play better is taboo while promoting bad gameplay isn't? :thinking:

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it is also harassment apparently
It is also apparently harassment to say stop promoting bad game play.

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Originally Posted by Khaidal

That's what ticks me off the most. She just stood there and let the tank break the DPS out alone. Plus, she did the medica thing more than once. I noticed her missing people during trash pulls. She needs to learn the range of medica.

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I always said her observational skills is weak, guess my point is proven now.

Finally KisaiTenshi, with your large downtime and overhearing, why don't you dps and not stand around doing nothing and overhealing?
https://youtu.be/QhWxJ_glQoY?t=727
12:08-12:13 that is you doing NOTHING, that is about 3 DPS spells, then you OVERHEALED with cure 1, your cure I does 3100 hp and they where 31000/33000 and went up to 32000 from regen. You have no clue how to heal, truth hurts, so stop telling people how to heal when you can't play well.

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Originally Posted by Misutoraru

snip

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I'm sorry you feel that way, but I understand it.
The thing is... this isn't the first time this issue arised. And this won't be the last.

People already tried the calm and tempered way of doing things. Of teaching people how to improve and how to play the game in a better way.
But some people are absolutly not responsive to this. They don't seek improvements, they don't seek "tips and tricks" or explanations. They'll just say that their way of playing is the right one, and that anyone saying otherwise can basically go f*ck himself. To stay polite.

We reached a point where most "calm" posts are ignored. Only the provocations, insults and sarcasm will get you a reaction from the other side. So people started being tired of being kind and patient with people who, obviously, didn't gave a single f*ck.

It's some kind of vicious circle, because we are in a situation where some people care, and some people don't.
So, if you don't want to get caught in that, the best thing is to ignore everyone. If you still can.

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Originally Posted by TheAngelneer

I saw a lot of overhealing with Cure/Cure II in that video.

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There were a couple, yes. Not as much as you'd think considering she only has a 3K cure and 5K cure II on average so it's actually kinda hard for her to overheal with Cure's that low and the tank taking as much damage as they were at times, heh.

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Originally Posted by Khaidal

That's what ticks me off the most. She just stood there and let the tank break the DPS out alone. Plus, she did the medica thing more than once. I noticed her missing people during trash pulls. She needs to learn the range of medica.

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I couldn't bring myself to watch the rest of the dungeon after that fight. I only recently have been trying my hand at healing in dungeons for now and found it mind numbingly boring to stand around not dps'ing when there was no dmg going out and it speeds up dungeons and raids by soo much. The other fun thing i've been doing is maximizing Essential dignity even if the tank might complain cause i'm letting him get so low

Yeah Kiasi I think after watching that video you could've done some dpsing a few times in the video. Like you could've killed that rock preventing that wipe. I'm not the best healer and I got ALOT to learn but I think you could've done alot more to help that run go a bit more smoother. My friend Sony is a new astro so here's one of his.
http://https://www.youtube.com/watch...itvUku4&t=748s

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Originally Posted by KisaiTenshi

As expected, everything turned out the way I predicted

http://i.imgur.com/xpXYVKf.png

The trolls did exactly what I expected them to do, watch little or nothing of the video, and make belligerent quips about me being bad at the game.

Entire context for everything below.

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Okay, let's go then.

1) Within the first 20 seconds of the video, I already found something you could improve on. USE YOUR FREECURES. SERIOUSLY. USE THEM. You have 15 seconds to cast a stronger heal that costs NO MP. Going even further into the video, I'm not sure if you EVER use any Freecure procs at all.

At the second group of mobs:

2) You used Regen and Asylum at the same time, and yet continued casting Cure I. This is completely unnecessary and entirely inefficient, because with a mob pack that small, Regen and Asylum by themselves would have kept the tank topped off or very close to it for about 20 seconds. All your cure casting really did was to top off your tank split seconds before your heal over time spells would have done so afterwards.
3) Did you know Holy stuns prevent most enemies from attacking for 5 seconds? That buys time for your regeneration heals to activate, AND does a significant chunk of damage to enemies? Even without Cleric Stance, the stun itself is still beneficial.
4) Do you have so little trust in your tanks that you have to keep their HP above 90% at all times? They're built to take damage. That doesn't mean they'll get knocked down like a pyramid built of dominoes if you look away for a few seconds, unless there's a Final Sting asshole somewhere.

At the first boss:

- Your reaction speed is very, very slow. Consider what happens at 6:05. You're looking at the Dragoon and you're moving in a way that signifies that you clearly realize that the Dragoon isn't at full HP. But it takes you 6 seconds (which is two whole global cooldowns) to actually do something about it.
- Even though your casting is minimal, you spend most of the fight at about 50-70% MP. I've come to theorize that your aversion to DPSing may stem from past experiences where any attempts to resulted in yourself running out of mana. Know that Shroud of Saints restores a significant chunk of mana over time, and that Assize also restores a flat 10% whenever it's used. Both should be used as often as possible, if possible.

I haven't bothered to watch beyond that (at least not yet, but I'll proceed once I'm done with dinner - because at least you're willing to post a video of yourself, which means you risk huge amount of negative publicity, which is something I can respect), but there is something important I've noted from the video. You mentioned that 1) you're undergeared, and 2) this video is a blind run of the dungeon. The latter would explain your slow reaction speed. Perhaps it is foolhardy to insert yourself into this argument so passionately when you clearly don't yet have the experience to utilize your entire skillset to greater effect. You are arguing with people that have YEARS worth of experience playing this game.

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Looked briefly at the second boss once I noticed people mentioning that there was a wipe there. There actually was no wipe, but... Even shifting into Cleric Stance for one moment and using Assize in the center would have cut the HP of all of the rocks and the bunny minions down to around 65% (a guesstimate based on your gear). It's THAT powerful. Throwing a Holy on top of that should have reduced their HP further down to about 40%.

Also, familiarize yourself with Tetraglammation. Note that this dungeon run was 37 minutes. That means you had 37 chances to use it (a 60 second cooldown is not a long time at all), if you tried to use it as often as possible. Tetraglammation is not only a powerful heal in itself, its utility is even stronger, because it's one of your few heals that does not have a casting time to use.

People can say, 'the DPS just need to get better' (and I have to say, the DPS in that video were awful, especially the Bard when taking his gear into account, which drives me insane as a Bard main), but anyone that actually believes that instead of looking inwards for improvement needs to realize that... There comes a practical point where you have to step up to the plate and go above and beyond to get things done. Letting a wipe happen to prove a point is the most self-defeating and time-wasting thing a person can ever do.

When a wipe happens, I don't go blaming other people, I start thinking about what I could have done differently to prevent it in the first place. It's this philosophy that has allowed me to become so good at being a Bard, and I've perhaps prevented countless wipes from occurring (the simplest examples being aware enough to note that one healer in my 24-man raid party may be dead, and the other is only seconds away from dying to a DoT debuff, and I throw my instant cast Warden's Paean - an advantage no other job in the game has - to cleanse the debuff and save them, when their death could have spiraled into a full wipe later in the fight) even though I'm just a 'filthy expendable DPS'. So what if I'm carrying people? I'd rather let my actions set an example instead of being petty.

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Originally Posted by KisaiTenshi

I'm not ignoring anything. Trolls put you on the defensive, and you let them win if you respond to their irrelevant distractions.

This is how I play the game:
https://youtu.be/QhWxJ_glQoY

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This is a shining example of why healer should dps

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Originally Posted by Hikuras

Yeah Kiasi I think after watching that video you could've done some dpsing a few times in the video. Like you could've killed that rock preventing that wipe. I'm not the best healer and I got ALOT to learn but I think you could've done alot more to help that run go a bit more smoother. Let me find a video of me healing... again I'm not the best but a little bit does help. :c I can't find any videos I did but my friend Sony is a new astro so here's one of his.
http://https://www.youtube.com/watch...itvUku4&t=748s

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Take auto lock off it seems to be hurting your movement and resisting you.
find a more center monster to AoE on
3 monsters + is the general rule for aoe like gravity (only exception I know if is the rain of death from brd, there that specific move is used when there is 2+ to hit)
Luminiferous Aether could been used sooner
You should use celestial oppositon when buffs are on people or at the very least, Luminiferous Aether on your self in the situation, those monsters do not hurt a lot
things took too long to die cuz the brd was afk or something.
Oh wait animations was disabled, clueless brd, not afk, sorry.
There are times you seem to hesitate casting but that is from low mp and again that looks like that was from low dps issue (brd)
Tell the brd at least to keep straight shot up and use rain of death when ready while applying dots on stuff here and there. I am so glad they are removing wide volley, that alone closes the dps considerably. (In other words if you are hurting for mp like that figure out why, in this case, it was because the brd was a derp)
You had to eat using ewer, but try find ewer sooner, need use draw more.
When draw was used it was burned for aoe buff, with the hurting of mp, I would redraw to find an ewer.
Asking for ballad from a brd that plays like that is also an option, to help you cover the lack of DPS (pretty sure at that point you get more damage from ballad then foe)

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Originally Posted by SaitoHikari

I haven't bothered to watch beyond that (at least not yet, but I'll proceed once I'm done with dinner - because at least you're willing to post a video of yourself, which means you risk huge amount of negative publicity, which is something I can respect), but there is something important I've noted from the video. You mentioned that 1) you're undergeared, and 2) this video is a blind run of the dungeon. The latter would explain your slow reaction speed. Perhaps it is foolhardy to insert yourself into this argument so passionately when you clearly don't yet have the experience to utilize your entire skillset to greater effect. You are arguing with people that have YEARS worth of experience playing this game.

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People with low experience should not be telling the experience how to play, that is why people are fed up with that person.

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Originally Posted by SaitoHikari

I haven't bothered to watch beyond that (at least not yet, but I'll proceed once I'm done with dinner - because at least you're willing to post a video of yourself, which means you risk huge amount of negative publicity, which is something I can respect), there is something I've noted from the video. You mentioned that 1) you're undergeared, and 2) this video is a blind run of the dungeon. The latter would explain your slow reaction speed. Perhaps it is foolhardy to insert yourself into this argument when you clearly don't yet have the experience to utilize your entire skillset to greater effect. You are arguing with people that have YEARS worth of experience playing this game.

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That's fine, I'd rather hear a constructive comments. There's no fun in posting videos of people facerolling content. I usually only turn the video recording on when I expect things to go wrong to begin with, or if I haven't played the content before, or in the case of this video, both.

But the entire argument from the beginning is about players expectations from healers, and one expectation you can not take for granted is that all the players in the DF will play exactly the same way, or even be good at that role. I set the bar at "If I can keep up, all is good", which is true for dungeons that are pure random PUG's.

Eh, the only thing that ever makes me think twice about dpsing as my AST is whether I can spare the gcds to switch the stance on and off or, more prevalent with my dumb self: Whether i remember to turn it off.

If they're removing that burden, why wouldn't you dps? I'm gonna go buck wild.

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Originally Posted by BlastHardcheese

Eh, the only thing that ever makes me think twice about dpsing as my AST is whether I can spare the gcds to switch the stance on and off or, more prevalent with my dumb self: Whether i remember to turn it off.

If they're removing that burden, why wouldn't you dps? I'm gonna go buck wild.

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Heh, nice way to look at it.

The one thing that REALLY worries me about the Cleric Stance removal though is that it WILL lead to Assize generating HUGE amounts of emnity. With Cleric Stance, Assize can only ever instantly heal a significant chunk of the party's HP, or inflict truckloads of damage. With the removal of the Cleric Stance limitation, it can now do BOTH at once. Just imagine what's going to happen. You're probably going to straight up die using it in your opener.

This isn't even considering that Assize's cooldown got reduced to 60 seconds, and WHMs already have enough problems with emnity management as is.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

Is it bad I almost want to say the other just to see if it's actually possible to have a 90% overheal? >.>

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Ops, just snorted.

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Originally Posted by SaitoHikari

To be honest, the link should have been extended by another 2-3 seconds so that people will actually see the dolls being broken INSTANTLY by the White Mage. Knowing some people here, the point will fly over their heads otherwise.

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You know what, I went back to my pc just to render it and uploading it soon :)

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Originally Posted by SaitoHikari

Heh, nice way to look at it.

The one thing that REALLY worries me about the Cleric Stance removal though is that it WILL lead to Assize generating HUGE amounts of emnity. With Cleric Stance, Assize can only ever instantly heal a significant chunk of the party's HP, or inflict truckloads of damage. With the removal of the Cleric Stance limitation, it can now do BOTH at once. Just imagine what's going to happen. You're probably going to straight up die using it in your opener.

This isn't even considering that Assize's cooldown got reduced to 60 seconds, and WHMs already have enough problems with emnity management as is.

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That's easy, we blame the tank for not wearing STR gear... Wait.

Seriously though, I've never played WHM to that level so I'm not familiar with the enmity spikes. I'm sure people will even out their expectations accordingly over time, gonna be a weird month or two.

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Originally Posted by KisaiTenshi

That's fine, I'd rather hear a constructive comments. There's no fun in posting videos of people facerolling content. I usually only turn the video recording on when I expect things to go wrong to begin with, or if I haven't played the content before, or in the case of this video, both.

But the entire argument from the beginning is about players expectations from healers, and one expectation you can not take for granted is that all the players in the DF will play exactly the same way, or even be good at that role. I set the bar at "If I can keep up, all is good", which is true for dungeons that are pure random PUG's.

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No it was not! You where telling experienced players how to play and how large downtime for healing is a myth, when even your own video shown large downtime like:

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Originally Posted by Ama_Hamada

Finally KisaiTenshi, with your large downtime and overhearing, why don't you dps and not stand around doing nothing and overhealing?
https://youtu.be/QhWxJ_glQoY?t=727
12:08-12:13 that is you doing NOTHING, that is about 3 DPS spells, then you OVERHEALED with cure 1, your cure I does 3100 hp and they where 31000/33000 and went up to 32000 from regen. You have no clue how to heal, truth hurts, so stop telling people how to heal when you can't play well.

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You are not better then anyone else just because you do not enter content over geared, thinking that is an auto win for your arguments for some reason. I am shocked you saw nothing wrong with your game play when I shown you a video of a WHM using tere, and other such things while dpsing, always casting, having no downtime even when dodging.

PEOPLE SAID REPEATEDLY!! we do not expect people to be an expert when they are clearly new and understanding to get the hang of things such as yourself. (The word try was repeatedly used, this means not standing around doing NOTHING) What people here flame to death is people that flame for DPSing at all as a healer even though no one dies, or those that refuse to dps because "healer do not need dps" when they have the ability to do so. How do you not understand this?

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Originally Posted by Hamada

That is a lazy defense, did you even read the story I quoted? Again you did not answer why it is ok healers can get away with being lazy and DPS can't. The game design requres DPS to have fractions of a second tight rotation or DPS suffers considerably, why do healers get to be easy mode?

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i dont know what game you are playing but there are a lot of dps who are awful at their jobs out there in FFXIV

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Originally Posted by Hikuras

Yeah Kiasi I think after watching that video you could've done some dpsing a few times in the video. Like you could've killed that rock preventing that wipe. I'm not the best healer and I got ALOT to learn but I think you could've done alot more to help that run go a bit more smoother. My friend Sony is a new astro so here's one of his.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=573JitvUku4

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Not sure if you're aware, but your link is broken. Here, I'll go fix it for you.

While we're all critiquing each other's gameplay, I'll go offer up mine as well. Note I rarely play any healer at all anymore (my job gameplay these days is 85% Bard, 10% WHM, 5% everything else), but that's not much of an excuse now, is it? Surely a pretentious asshole like I should be ripped apart and humbled at some point.

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/149226710

(Ignore the second half of the video, that's just me screwing around as a Bard in Dun Scaith.)

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Originally Posted by KisaiTenshi

This is how I play the game:
https://youtu.be/QhWxJ_glQoY

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Let's compare this...

https://youtu.be/QhWxJ_glQoY?t=56 <---timestamp at your second pull in antitower

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0jw4mmW1Ldg <---my second pull of antitower


My alt has lower item level gear so I used her.

Each case the tank's HP wasn't going down fast or even at all in your case (with Asylum and Regen on)
You were on WHM which has higher Regen potency and I was on AST with lower Regen potency and also no Asylum. (Side note: My weapon is also 20 item levels lower than yours)

I chose to DPS with Gravity. You chose to use Cure I on the tank whose HP was at 95%.
I chose to continue DPSing with Gravity. You chose to arbitrarily use Stoneskin on one of the DPS.
I chose to even still continue DPSing with Gravity. You chose to Cure I the tank whose HP was at 98% this time.
I chose to keep casting Gravity. You chose to stand idle waiting for the tanks HP to drop, but with that many regens he was fine and you waited casting nothing till his HP dropped a bit and used Cure I again.

It was your first time in the dungeon, but you've gone through a lot of other content. If the tank's HP is barely going down then you definitely have time to DPS even if you are undergeared. I noticed you also use some DPS spells in the pull like Aero II and Aero III (without Cleric), but in other threads you kept saying healers have no downtime to DPS and it is a myth. So I am wondering how exactly you come to the conclusions you make.

It's your first time in the dungeon so okay I understand and I also don't bug healers in-game who don't DPS because I try my best to be understanding, but honestly after going through all the other content you have done don't you want to try to DPS a bit more? Or is it just beyond your skill level to handle?

I am asking you legit here. If you just cannot do it then fine... it's pointless to try to force a car or train to fly after all, but especially in dungeons honestly most people should have enough skill to toss on Cleric and use a few Holy and click it off. Especially with SB coming and no longer needing Cleric dancing at all.

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Originally Posted by SaitoHikari

(Ignore the second half of the video, that's just me screwing around as a Bard in Dun Scaith.)

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Not bad. my turn: https://youtu.be/ueSZMBjWukk

I don't care what people say but healers needs to DPS and healers who don't DPS are lazy, trolling or just a terrible healer who can't do both healing and DPS.

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Originally Posted by SaitoHikari

Not sure if you're aware, but your link is broken. Here, I'll go fix it for you.

While we're all critiquing each other's gameplay, I'll go offer up mine as well. Note I rarely play any healer at all anymore (my job gameplay these days is 85% Bard, 10% WHM, 5% everything else), but that's not much of an excuse now, is it? Surely a pretentious asshole like I should be ripped apart and humbled at some point.

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/149226710

(Ignore the second half of the video, that's just me screwing around as a Bard in Dun Scaith.)

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(btw all this is from the whm i vid linked earlier)
-play style difference comment-
I do not use swfitcast stoneskin, I prefer to have it for the first holy, if the tank is a derp this saves me headaches. a swiftcast holy is also a DPS+ when you can weave asszie and say tere without clipping, of course what free ocgd you use depends on situation.

Aero III could been used sooner, best is timing it when you know the tank should hit the monster with shield lob, even after it was hit you where just going into cleric, it was kinda slow
You dropped cleric too fast, this is where you can gauge how well your tank can do. I leave them completely off healing then bene when they are low. This tells me how well they can keep up and how well regens and such sustain them later. You really want to do this with wars esp since war is the biggest skill gap when it comes to who is high maintenance or not.

I liked the second pull much better. though there is def room for an aero I or 2 if you had cleric on before the pull.

Boss pull I see the same pattern, slow aero III, you can cast that as the tank is pulling to have it land after they tag it. Can do aero III> aero II> aero I, then take cleric off and do whatever ocgd is fitting for the situation, or use fluild aura, then take it off and be ready with regen and tere.

When the big aoe hit, you should know there is no general follow up with that, the blm could been healed with the medica II regen effect or tossing a regen on top of that if you are nervous.

If you have a caster, inform them to LB the pull after the second boss, as it will be ready by the second wave on lava scorp.

You other 3 members knew what they where doing gg

I am going to assume the rest follows the same pattern and this should be enough to think about.

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Originally Posted by akaneakki

Not bad. my turn: https://youtu.be/ueSZMBjWukk

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After the first holy can aero III or some filler because that is a longer lasting stun. I do not tend to regen first but more as filler to fill in during the stun gaps.

asszise could been used as ogcd during the swiftcast recast to free up clipping and overkill. Your teammates where also way better then KisaiTenshi's

So are we going to start calling Red mages who don't heal lazy? Since its part of their toolkit and they can do 10k+ heals in a few seconds. Otherwise i think this would be a bit hypocritical.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

So are we going to start calling Red mages who don't heal lazy? Since its part of their toolkit and they can do 10k+ heals in a few seconds. Otherwise i think this would be a bit hypocritical.

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If red mage really can do healing like that when the game is out we do not need healers at all, just make premade of tank , dps,dps, RDM. I thought yoshi-p said RDM would not be like RDM in past games and have access to healing just on that balance issue.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

So are we going to start calling Red mages who don't heal lazy? Since its part of their toolkit and they can do 10k+ heals in a few seconds. Otherwise i think this would be a bit hypocritical.

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If the healer can't keep up or is dead, or a party member dies while the tank is going through a tankbuster (needing healer's attention) yes. It's their duty, and to serve as a mana battery if the situation calls for it.

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Originally Posted by Ama_Hamada

If red mage really can do healing like that when the game is out we do not need healers at all, just make premade of tank , dps,dps, RDM

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They can't AoE heal. Yoshi-P said they had a test run of it, and while the RDM could heal, the fight didnt go anywhere since they couldnt dps very much :P But hey, its part of the toolkit, better see RDMs healing or we need rage threads on the forums.

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Originally Posted by Erys

If the healer can't keep up or is dead, or a party member dies while the tank is going through a tankbuster (needing healer's attention) yes. It's their duty, and to serve as a mana battery if the situation calls for it.

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RDM would make a poor mana battery, BLM is probably more where that skill is beneficial, since they have unlimited MP refresh.