Healers that don't want to DPS are like DPSes who refuse to move out of AoEs.

You've actually proven that no one cares about bad dps players or not, precisely by disregarding any attempts to make the dps player carry more weight and be actually responsible for their role, rather than letting someone that's not actually meant to deal damage add that to their mandatory list of responsibilities. You cannot reasonably expect players of any role to improve if they don't see any particular gain in doing so.

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Originally Posted by Thunda_Cat_SMASH

You've actually proven that no one cares about bad dps players or not, precisely be disregarding any attempts to make the dps player carry more weight and be actually responsible for their role, rather than letting someone that's not actually meant to deal damage add that to their mandatory list of responsibilities. You cannot reasonably expect players to improve if they don't see any particular gain or reason to.

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How can we possibly call them out and /force/ them to improve, please, offer solutions that the community hasn't already exhausted? We've implemented DPS checks, they're too hard and get nerfed by the click of a finger. We can't single them out with data because it's against the ToS. We can't offer them advice because they refuse to hear and apply it. So, what are your solutions?

EDIT: Again, Healers should be DPS'ing, it's part of your toolkit and not utilising it is a direct relation to not maximising and playing optimally.

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Originally Posted by VeliusVire

We /can't/ call out bad DPS without getting reported is the issue. The only way to PROVE which DPS isn't doing their job is through parsers in large groups, but we can't do that, so go figure. This isn't about not calling out bad DPS, this talking about healer playstyles. Again, a healer that doesn't maximise their role is objectively not as good as other healers, simple as that.

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I mean, the role is healer. To me, those that dps aren't playing a healer role, but a hybrid. Doing dps isn't healing, and therefore is outside the role assigned to the job. DPS who don't maximize their role are a hindrance, but everyone babies them because they are too afraid. Guess what, you can call them out as long as you don't mention specific dps numbers or the word parse. They have no report ammo against you if you don't mention these things. Its pretty easy to tell a bad dps from a good one if you watch their buff list or the bosses debuff list.

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Originally Posted by VeliusVire

EDIT: Again, Healers should be DPS'ing, it's part of your toolkit and not utilising it is a direct relation to not maximising and playing optimally.

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PLD has a healing skill, I guess I should be spamming that in dungeons to maximize my role.

I actually agree with what you say, 100%, but it can't just be by calling them out, how do we get them to improve? How do we give them an incentive? Again, a Healers ROLE is to ensure the party's survival, everything else you do is seen as a bonus to the party. Are you expected to do that in content outside of Savage? No, most certainly not. Is it better if you can? Yes it is, but it's by no means mandatory. The problem is we /want/ the community's DPS to /improve/ and they won't do that just by getting called out, they'll just join party after party until they get a clear, or they'll just wait til the content is easier before attempting it. And no, spamming something to be a smart alec isn't maximising your role as there's a clear, defined way on how to maximise your role, it's called researching.

Wow, things are getting really heated in this thread now. Wonder how much longer until somebody invokes Godwin's law?

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Originally Posted by Hyperia

Wow, things are getting really heated in this thread now. Wonder how much longer until somebody invokes Godwin's law?

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If the people on this thread keep talking in hyperbole and without reason, then yeah I can see them eventually resorting to that because they're running out of intelligent reasoning.

The problem is mostly the community badmouthing healers who do their primary role. I think the community needs to move away from healers who dont dps are awful, and move to healers who dps are a nice bonus to have. Especially since they are so afraid of calling dps who don't do their jobs out on it.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

The problem is mostly the community badmouthing healers who do their primary role. I think the community needs to move away from healers who dont dps are awful, and move to healers who dps are a nice bonus to have. Especially since they are so afraid of calling dps who don't do their jobs out on it.

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And that's /exactly/ how it should be seen outside of Savage, it really should, you don't /need/ Healer DPS to clear anything in the game outside of that really. I, for one, do not have qualms calling out bad DPS, but there needs to be a more productive resolution aside from calling them out and we don't have many options, especially not if Yoshi P himself has said 'It's the job of more experienced players to carry those who aren't as good' or 'There's no such thing as an optimal rotation'. Whether or not he's aware of it, when he's giving DPS more ground to be lazy, he increases the burden on Tanks and Healers.

I swear this whole post is nothing but close minded people.. They pay the sub let them play how they want. If your GOOD at your Job/Class most the time you can get by if a Healer does some DPS. Those of you who need healing 24/7 just don't seem very good at playing your Job/Class.
God forbid people should try new things, god forbid anything but what you all deem "the right way" actually works. Like i said nothing but close minds..

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Originally Posted by Vorx

I swear this whole post is nothing but close minded people.. They pay the sub let them play how they want. If your GOOD at your Job/Class most the time you can get by if a Healer does some DPS. Those of you who need healing 24/7 just don't seem very good at playing your Job/Class.
God forbid people should try new things, god forbid anything but what you all deem "the right way" actually works. Like i said nothing but close minds..

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You can't really think in such a micro sense because the game isn't single-player, you're playing with so many other people who think /their/ way is the /best/ way, they're also paying their sub, so if 7 people say the 1 is wrong, does that make them wrong? But they're paying their sub too? it's almost impossible to come to a compromise where everyone agrees on something and that's the end of that.