Dps As Healer

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Originally Posted by Miste

I definitely won't ever agree with your ideas then :x

That's a terrible idea. It completely removes a healer slot because WHM healing is so powerful? You aren't serious with this right? :/

You think AST is broken right now cause of Balance Cards? All groups will go the 5 DPS route since it adds far more DPS than any other composition.

So after this you might as well delete SCH and AST from the game and change the game party composition to 2 tanks, 5 dps, and 1 healer for all content.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

No, no, no. Now I'm with Miste on this one. We have seen exactly what happens when you design content where one of the roles isn't necessary. Zurvan EX is a mess because the off tank has nothing to do, thus people omit them for an extra DPS and expect to skip Soar. If White Mage could solo heal content, you'd have no reason whatsoever to ever bring another healer since they couldn't possibly contribute what a dedicated fifth DPS would. If they happened, I guarantee even casual raiders would push for White Mage only groups.

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That's fine~ Everyone is entitled to their opinion after all :) While it is a personal wish I also don't foresee it happening either because having consistent design constraints means it's easier to design content too. Building and enforcing a 2/2/4 setup as best as possible will mean overall better content with less balance issues too.

Healer Balance feels completely out of whack at this time and we're so close to an expansion that I'm curious to see what S-E will do. Unfortunately my expectations are fairly low given how badly I feel they've botched the AST file. :/

[EDIT] And yes, my request is perfectly serious - but I can also appreciate the balance required to maintain this would be fairly like balancing on a razor's edge. Effectively SCH + AST combination would have to be able to output enough utility and DPS to match a fifth DPS and a WHM would essentially be contributing 0 additional DPS while maintaining party health in a raid scenario. While it would be possible to remotely balance this in a savage raid tier, balancing it for more casual content (24-player and 4-player DFs) would be all but impossible. Even if it were balanced in a 8-player savage scenario, one small shift in a direction would probably throw that out entirely.

I don't see my own desires reaching fruition but I don't mind dreaming and expressing it either :)

With all this talk about healers only wanting to heal I sure wish they heal more in pvp.

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Originally Posted by Daisy

Idk I always found this pretty simple. If my healer does dps, I dodge all AoE. If they don't dps, I stay in AoE as long as it won't kill me. This way I do a bit more damage and healer has something to do. If the healer doesn't want to dps AND wants you to dodge, they are lazy and should probably just kick em.

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Brilliant. I must keep this in mind when I am tanking. Have my vote!

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Originally Posted by Exiled_Tonberry

Because that one healer offers more than the other that ONLY heals.

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My comment was ONLY about healing potency not the combination of healing potency and utility. No healer should have a harder time at their primary function.

These are the things I can agree with:
Nerf ASTs utility
Buff WHMs utility (could make it something unique to WHM I am sure SOMETHING can be created)

These are things I will not ever agree with:
Nerfing any healer's healing potency to be weaker than the other healers.

You'll NEVER change my mind so honestly no point in continuing which is why I stopped replying to you.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

The former allows easier mechanic skips whereas the latter better ensures you survive.

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Which means you will only see ASTs in the top tier/hardcore skilled player groups. Anyone who wants to play an AST in midcore arena will likely be left out.

Midcore/Average players will almost always take survivability instead of risky heals. Most players except the top tier will always take the easiest and safest way to a clear because speed/DPS numbers don't usually matter to them as long as clearing is possible; and mechanic skipping isn't even a viable option for most midcore groups even with AST buffs. There are full i270 groups with an AST in the party that still can't skip mechanics in A11S.

Zurvan EX is a good example of how the community's mind works. Skipping soar is safer so they almost always try to do that method. Tank LBing second soar is safer so even though they could do more damage to the boss they just LB that instead to survive. WAR's get locked out of parties because the safest and easiest way to a clear is to solo tank and WAR cannot survive demon claw while DRK/PLD can.

It is very easy to find reasons to ostracize a specific job if they cannot do something which increases clear chances and while I understand this also applies to WHM lack of utility I agree with adding utility to WHM to remove that issue.

In general I don't agree with anything that lowers any healer's healing potency. To me it is imbalanced and will cause rifts in the community because people don't like risk and people will start locking certain healers out of the groups just like what happened with AST at 3.0 because of their weak heals.

So we might as well agree to disagree because I have my own logic set already and nothing will be changing it unless SE can show me it will somehow work.

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Originally Posted by Ghishlain

My own thought is making WHM healing so powerful that you either go 2 Tank / 5 DPS / WHM

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What? No. No no no that would be terrible. The goal is to make healers balanced while giving WHM and AST both unique identities.

This however, is just breaking the balance amongst healers. NO ONE is asking for WHM to be so powerful of a healer that it let's you bring a 5th DPS. That is the very definition of broken and unbalanced.

Dpsing as a healer is almost natural for me.I only tank and heal and I even enjoyed stance dancing on my warrior main,back then when the job was inferior to pld and a lot of ppl did not want a warrior in raids.It was also a lot harder stance dancing than healer imo.Cleared all the raid tiers up to gordias when my static disbanded and I took a break.I decided to give Astro a shot and switched to main heal when I came back just to test and challenge myself and I sticked to heal till today.I found healing easier the more in dept knowledge I have of tanking.:)

So for me these to roles are bonded together and I learn to adapt and analyze what both jobs are capable of,knowing tank cd rotation in every detail allows to micromanage and adapt own healer skills.Knowing your tanks abilities and calculating the order is pretty crucial to healer dps.A good tank knows how to play to give the heal time to blast out dps, a good symbiosis is fundamental for solo healing/tanking.Is dpsing fun? Yep.Would I be upset if SE removes the DPS meta?Nope. Dpsing alone does not give me the kick,that's why I will mever play dd.I rather stick to the core duty.

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Originally Posted by Daisy

Idk I always found this pretty simple. If my healer does dps, I dodge all AoE. If they don't dps, I stay in AoE as long as it won't kill me. This way I do a bit more damage and healer has something to do. If the healer doesn't want to dps AND wants you to dodge, they are lazy and should probably just kick em.

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Yep that's how i tank. Spamming cure for no reason? Allow me to stand in stuff and not use cds. Ooooh i should raw intuition and turn around next time

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Originally Posted by Daisy

Idk I always found this pretty simple. If my healer does dps, I dodge all AoE. If they don't dps, I stay in AoE as long as it won't kill me. This way I do a bit more damage and healer has something to do. If the healer doesn't want to dps AND wants you to dodge, they are lazy and should probably just kick em.

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You should be careful about that. I may not DPS right off the bat if I'm unsure how much damage the tank will take and if you start standing in AOE, I'm not going to DPS ever because I can't trust you not to die like a derp.

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Originally Posted by Daisy

Idk I always found this pretty simple. If my healer does dps, I dodge all AoE. If they don't dps, I stay in AoE as long as it won't kill me. This way I do a bit more damage and healer has something to do. If the healer doesn't want to dps AND wants you to dodge, they are lazy and should probably just kick em.

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So instead of playing the game and focusing on you role , you decide to be as inconvenient as possible to your group!

Thats really great from you ;) Im so proud of you , and all of the rest that thinks like that :P

Ur are really a great addition to the community :P

not :P