Order of the Blue Garter Twintania Down (No Exploits)

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Originally Posted by CrashQQ

The fact that you say WoW has "easy mode raids" sort of invalidates anything you say.

Although I find the kill extremely legitimate and have no problem with what they did.

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Really? You think WoW has hard raids? Go look at the progression % rates and compare it to XIV or XI and get back to me. rofl. WoW is a joke kid.

Seige of Ogrimmar ["Hard Mode"] (Newest raid instance) -- Complete dungeon released October 22 (It was released in phases). Completed by 19 guilds as of october 28.
Binding Coil of Bahamut - Released with XIV Release. Completed by 1 group of 8 people legitimately (On a legacy server which had a significant gear/level advantage to non-legacy).

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Originally Posted by Laryndra

Really? You think WoW has hard raids? Go look at the progression % rates and compare it to XIV or XI and get back to me. rofl. WoW is a joke kid.

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WoW did have hard raids...excluding a few tiers of content, WOTLK Naxx for example (not sure about Pandaland and end Cata)...and you can't compare WoW to other MMOs on a progression % basis considering how many more subscribers WoW has/had compared to the other MMOs.

WoW raids from Vanilla through BC were insanely fun and challenging...but didn't require you to zerg a boss for 18 hours straight like a MMO zombie with no life.

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Originally Posted by Laryndra

All of this butthurt crying exploit.. For all you know its intended to work that way for the reason of providing a break to the healer. It is risk/reward because if you cant kill the conflag the main tank drops. How is that hard to understand? Just because there is no damage going out doesn't mean there isn't the potential for a battle-ending event to happen, which is the whole purpose of bosses dealing damage in the first place.

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It's a very fine line, I think that the boss should definitely go to the next on the threat list whenever the tank is in conflag and the fireball should definitely still get used by twin while the target is in conflag. I'm not sure what SE was thinking when they designed the AI, essentially stepping into that conflag bugs the boss out while the conflag is active and her targets are inside it. If that was intended then it was pretty poor design. I'd still give them a legit kill, and definitely congratulations, very creative use of the boss mechanics...but it was full of super cheesiness through the first half.

*Edit* Poor boss design and testing isn't BG's fault, if using the conflag that way was not intended, it was not obvious. This kind of stuff happens often with world firsts, if it needs fixing then SE will do it...within the next few years...

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Originally Posted by Laryndra

All of this butthurt crying exploit.. For all you know its intended to work that way for the reason of providing a break to the healer. It is risk/reward because if you cant kill the conflag the main tank drops. How is that hard to understand? Just because there is no damage going out doesn't mean there isn't the potential for a battle-ending event to happen, which is the whole purpose of bosses dealing damage in the first place. There are alot of mechanics SE employs in their raids in XI which aren't conventional like this and sure, you don't have to use them.. but it makes the fight much harder. Go back to wow if you want your easy mode raids.

Just to illustrate my point in XI many raid level bosses have certain weaknesses which stun them for up to 10 seconds or even longer if you can manage to chain them. NO ONE is taking damage when this happens and the boss still is.

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First of all, nothing in Coil has been anything very difficult or anything that anyone hasn't seen in WoW or even other games. Rift had more difficult mechanics than FF14 has, and the only reason Coil is challengening is because it's tuned for much higher gear. When people are in 80 gear, Coil is going to be an absolute joke which it already is. Progression content is always going to force you to play your best in any game; even the massive competition for world first in WoW is based on guild skill, not gimmicky mechanics.

2nd, this isn't FFXI and not even any kind of design team that was around for that. Comparing the two games is just as well dumb and ignorant. It's already been shown what the boss did when she was bugged before, the same thing happens with this, so it's pretty easy to conclude that isn't intended.

Who's crying? I'm simply pointing out the facts, if you get out of your fanboy mode for a minute, you might read and understand what other people are saying.

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Originally Posted by Horg

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You are not negating boss mechanics by stuffing your tank in the conflag.. The mechanic in question is the conflag instantly killing people. Which it still does unless you sleep it (A bug) or kill it. (not a bug). Just because damage is not coming in does not make it an exploit or unintended, in fact its more likely that its intended to be that way since -EVERY- other monster in the game behaves in the same way.

Also: We aren't comparing raids today to raids of old. Pandemonium Warden would make you cry and rage quit the thread. Stick to whats current.

To Onolock: The same developers for battle content for XI Today (Alduin) are the same ones designing content for XIV. If you can't tell the difference between logging out (and PERMANENTLY) bugging the boss, to a temporary and still very deadly mechanic then you're hopeless. Lol.

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Originally Posted by CrashQQ

The fact that you say WoW has "easy mode raids" sort of invalidates anything you say.

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Don't feed the troll. When a post begins with an insult to other players, there's not likely to be anything of value to follow.

Anyway, some people noticed some odd behavior -- the enemy failing to attack when it otherwise should be attacking. That seems to be either a large oversight or a bug. One way or the other, it's disabling enemy actions (including random-targeted fireballs) for the duration of a DPS check, freeing healers to DPS if necessary and trivializing the section.

//EDIT: Actually, the fight is a great example. A healer is targeted by the Conflagration, reducing healing output. Instead of having one healer dealing with fireballs and tank damage while any DPS loss can mean the targeted player dies, this allows everyone gets to sit around and fire away at the Conflagration unimpeded. It seems unlikely to me that this could be intended, and the total inaction of the opponent suggests it is an AI bug -- if it were merely an oversight, you would expect Twintania to continue attacking for the duration and simply deal no damage.

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Originally Posted by Onolock

whining

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You're right, Coil is such a joke that you cleared all five turns long ago. Wait...

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Originally Posted by Laryndra

You are not negating boss mechanics by stuffing your tank in the conflag.. The mechanic in question is the conflag instantly killing people. Which it still does unless you sleep it (A bug) or kill it. (not a bug). Just because damage is not coming in does not make it an exploit or unintended, in fact its more likely that its intended to be that way since -EVERY- other monster in the game behaves in the same way.

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The mob attacking yes, though it doesn't seem correct, it is in fact how SE designed the game...poorly. However, by stepping into conflag to completely negate the fireball is completely different, that seems to be very close to exploit since a mechanic is being circumvented through, what is assumed, unintended means.

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Originally Posted by Laryndra

Really? You think WoW has hard raids? Go look at the progression % rates and compare it to XIV or XI and get back to me. rofl. WoW is a joke kid.

Seige of Ogrimmar ["Hard Mode"] (Newest raid instance) -- Complete dungeon released October 22 (It was released in phases). Completed by 19 guilds as of october 28.
Binding Coil of Bahamut - Released with XIV Release. Completed by 1 group of 8 people legitimately (On a legacy server which had a significant gear/level advantage to non-legacy).

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wat

if you've done heroic raiding in WoW, you would know coil is a joke when compared to heroic raiding (normal raiding is probably harder),also, you're comparing game release final boss vs current WoW final game boss. you know how long it took when WoW was released to kill ragnaros? WoW was released Nov 23 2004, world first ragnaros kill was april 25 2005.

granted,heroic garrosh may not be the most difficult WoW boss, but if I'm progressing on twintania right now (mind you, this ain't even an fc progression, just a random unkown LS that raids once a week) and I haven't even progressed 60% of the current heroic WoW content right now(4x a week, 3-4 hours each day), I'm sure as hell garrosh is a lot harder than twintania.

edit/add: ALSO, how many weeks has twintania been down for fixes? I'm quite sure BG would have gotten the kill earlier if all these downtime weren't there.

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Originally Posted by Horg

WoW did have hard raids...excluding a few tiers of content, WOTLK Naxx for example (not sure about Pandaland and end Cata)...and you can't compare WoW to other MMOs on a progression % basis considering how many more subscribers WoW has/had compared to the other MMOs.

WoW raids from Vanilla through BC were insanely fun and challenging...but didn't require you to zerg a boss for 18 hours straight like a MMO zombie with no life.

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Yeah, WoW had raids that were just straight up broken as well (AQ40)