The New Chat Restriction in The Feast

Didn't they say Yoship would respond to this before 4.0... So we should hear something in the next 2-3 weeks?

Honestly it's a mixed bag. Having chat in Frontlines hasn't prevented healers from letting me die at their feet because they were too busy throwing stone III at ice.

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Originally Posted by TiramisuMacaron

Didn't they say Yoship would respond to this before 4.0... So we should hear something in the next 2-3 weeks?

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Ayep:

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Originally Posted by Vejjiegirl

https://mogtalk.org/2017/03/12/mogta...ns-to-yoshida/

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Inb4 he forgot.

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Originally Posted by bounddreamer

Honestly it's a mixed bag. Having chat in Frontlines hasn't prevented healers from letting me die at their feet because they were too busy throwing stone III at ice.

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That's entirely lack of knowing on their part, not a fault of having/not having chat.

They should know healer DPS isn't notable enough to make a huge difference there, AND that ice is 50% magic resistant. So not healing a teammate because they were trying to DPS is effectively a waste.

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Originally Posted by TiramisuMacaron

Didn't they say Yoship would respond to this before 4.0... So we should hear something in the next 2-3 weeks?

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The chat had a whole tab they didn't show in the menu. Expect a response "While some players are resistant participation in pvp is up and GM complaints are down. It has been a net positive"

Problem is SOLO que plus RANK. When they have a solution to that maybe chat will come back.

Quoted after since I can't get multi quote to work after for some reason "That's entirely lack of knowing on their part, not a fault of having/not having chat."

This is part of the problem. PvP community thinks that it is an education issue and if they scream enough at the other player it will change. That healer may not have wanted to heal you and dps. No amount of macros or knowledge will change that. If you are upset with the way someone is playing ie healer dpsing ice vote kick and move on. A percentage of people can't move on "Nice Job!" /sad

No, that's not it at all. Please let me clarify a few things:

First, this thread is about the Feast. The matter you quoted me on is in regards to Frontlines.

There is absolutely zero issue with expectation of healers to both heal and DPS in PvP. You're a healer. You heal. PvP currently is all about high burst damage, so there's really little time for a healer to try to DPS, AND Cleric Stance isn't even usable in PvP. Hasn't been for a very long time either.

Ice, as I said before is 50% magic resistant. When you consider that healer damage would be lower than caster damage even if it weren't so resistant, it really is a waste of MP to have a healer trying to DPS ice. On top of that, if you have a near dead teammate in front of you and you're trying to attack ice, that's a huge problem in and of itself.

Kicking someone from a match is easy. But what do they learn that way? All that does is encourage the already negative stigmas about PvP. "I got kicked for no reason! I was even helping the team DPS and they kicked me anyways!" . . .Except the reason is that player wasn't doing what they should do, and perhaps didn't know any better besides. Kicking them doesn't fix that. Not only that, but I've been in a situation, recently too, where someone didn't listen/respond to calls on our team, and just as we started thinking they were a bot, they did respond, but in a nasty way. So we booted him. Same guy makes a reddit thread shortly after telling a one sided story about "How it's so unfair premades can just kick you and make you waste your time". . . Except we kicked him because he didn't pay attention, didn't listen to calls, mouthed off to us for no reason, and made things tougher for the team. Upon seeing it, we quickly figured out it was the same guy, and told our side of things. We had screenshots of his rude retorts to back us up too, but IF we didn't, it'd have been just another case of "PvP toxicity" but a one-sided falsehood in this case.

Again, kicking someone for doing it wrong is easy. But they don't learn that way. They learn either by actively seeking out the information - which is largely available IF you look for it - and from other players. Restricting the players' abilities to teach each other on the fly only allows for people to go actively seeking the information themselves, and if more players were willing to do so, we'd all have a better experience.

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Originally Posted by ThirdChild_ZKI

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You are missing the point. People are told, they don't care. Specially healers that dps. The other thing is when you could spam macros non stop did it get people to do what you wanted? Once and again a second time, if someone has not reacted after you make an effort to tell them twice they are not going to change. Short of you being able to smack them in real life. That was my point.

A percentage of stuff I saw in season one and the guys I watch on twitch feel spam until they submit. I don't believe it was toxic behavior reaching a critical mass. It was toxic plus listen to me or else. At least in frontlines I can kick someone. Some healers we kick across multiple games. They have been told. They come and heal and want to dps. Nothing like asking politely if you could help us at the ice. "No I am working on my kills."

In cases where someone's been informed and still doing it wrong, yes, you kick them.

Beyond that, restricting chat for the misuse by some largely affects everyone else, because much like the above, they simply don't care to do things properly. However I stand by what I said knowing that we have the very real issue of an uphill PR battle when it comes to getting people into PvP. It goes without saying if you want kills, don't queue as a healer, plain and simple. I'm not advocating macro spam, but I also won't use that as validation for any restrictions being placed on communication in a competitive mode. And "Just kick and move on" is hardly an answer either.

I say keep the chat restriction. The majority of the chat that I experienced prior to 3.5 has just been insults thrown left and right when the match was't going our way.

With the changes coming with 4.0, it's going to be alot easier to use all the different quick chat options. Less actions = more space for quick chat buttons. Especially for us on PS4 (and/or controller players on PC)

Even if they decide to reinstate the chat again, you can always blacklist cringe elitists since it now works cross-server.

I find elitist needing to win so bad just dumb, from using ACT, voice chat, speed hacks and whatnot. I would not be surprise if elitist pays other to lose for them.

I don't suppose anybody knows what the Japanese forum is saying about this?

A lot of stuff needs to be fixed with the pvp. The kicking people from the duty when the game hasn't even started yet for being ''inactive'' for one. Never heard of a game ejecting a player during the countdown. It should atleast be 10 seconds of inactivity after the match officially starts. I guess we're supposed to run around spastically until the match begins.

So where is the Yoshi-p post we were told we would get in regards to this? Put chat back, I was shocked and still am about removing chat in a social game.

There is not enough commands, you can't make enough commands to get across what to say, like someone needing to change job..

Oh they are removing the ability to change job right? so they are trying to kill pvp with even longer queue times? Why not remove pvp completely? basically what they are doing anyway

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Originally Posted by Hamada

Oh they are removing the ability to change job right?

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Not job but class. No more seeing Cute 1 in frontlines at whatever 1.0 class they feel like today. Or at least that is how I read the note to mean. They have all this time but you can tell the notes were definitely not English to start.

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Originally Posted by OskarXCI

I say keep the chat restriction. The majority of the chat that I experienced prior to 3.5 has just been insults thrown left and right when the match was't going our way.

With the changes coming with 4.0, it's going to be alot easier to use all the different quick chat options. Less actions = more space for quick chat buttons. Especially for us on PS4 (and/or controller players on PC)

Even if they decide to reinstate the chat again, you can always blacklist cringe elitists since it now works cross-server.

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While I don't doubt you, as I play primarily PvP games (FPS, MOBA, RTS. etc.), link your source. I can't find it via Google.

All people do now is spam quick chat "Nice Job!" instead of raging in chat, which by the way is worse. At least before you could ignore their rage, you can't ignore the sounds that are made with each Quick Chat macro.

My bar is meant for skill binding, not useless quick chat.
And you guys should really reconsider using the term "elitist". In pve and pvp, you always notice that the one puting the blame on others or insulting are just completely trash that think they're the real deal. You get those idiots in dungeon roulette and poney farming, and they are far from belonging to elite players, and most of those I encountered were names I've never seen before. You know that.

upping it for keep remembering SE that we want chat back. Specially with lots of nonames flocking in s5.

After playing some matches.

Nah.

I like not having chat. It's simple and clean. Pure even. Attacking Role/Fall back and marking are all thats needed for a victory to which I've gotten a few of. Though if it's not viable for a win, please discredit the wins I have taken with further proof.

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Originally Posted by Headhunters

upping it for keep remembering SE that we want chat back. Specially with lots of nonames flocking in s5.

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Who that?

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Originally Posted by Clethoria

After playing some matches.

Nah.

I like not having chat. It's simple and clean. Pure even. Attacking Role/Fall back and marking are all thats needed for a victory to which I've gotten a few of. Though if it's not viable for a win, please discredit the wins I have taken with further proof.

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So then, how do you win when your team has no healer and you can't ask someone to switch?
How do you win when your tank has 10 stacks of medals and isn't falling back to play defensively?
How do you tell your team when you notice the guy on the other team who has all the medals and is hiding somewhere?
How do you tell your team to attack a certain job carrying more medals when there's multiple people playing that job?
How do you teach any of these situations that have actually happened to someone who's new and won't know otherwise?

There is nothing good about quick chat. There never was.

Yeah, it still remains frustrating.

I don't mind losing if I'm being outplayed. I loathe losing if the loss is based on being able to give specific instructions to the rest of my team.

I've lost count of the amount of times I've seen someone turn around a Frontlines match by giving concise, clear instructions. That cannot be done in Feast, unfortunately - and no amount of quick chat options are going to account for the nuances or simplicity of simply typing something to the rest of one's team.

Not being able to tell people the basic functions of this game mode is the most frustrating thing. There isn't even an in game tutorial! It just drops new players in and expects them to get by on their own or go out of their way to find a webpage on the website that tells them how to play Feast.

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Originally Posted by ThirdChild_ZKI

So then, how do you win when your team has no healer and you can't ask someone to switch?
How do you win when your tank has 10 stacks of medals and isn't falling back to play defensively?
How do you tell your team when you notice the guy on the other team who has all the medals and is hiding somewhere?
How do you tell your team to attack a certain job carrying more medals when there's multiple people playing that job?
How do you teach any of these situations that have actually happened to someone who's new and won't know otherwise?

There is nothing good about quick chat. There never was.

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I don't. We just wing it and I dunno about you and all the forum salt but I'm having fun. If chat comes back, more power to ya. But, I'll just play as I always have. Roughing healers the heck up until someone marks the tank/BLM.

Exactly. You just wing it.

Before 3.5, some of us LEARNED IT, and for that reason we won consistently. We taught others, we gave advice, we communicated, and THAT is what made it fun. Trying to solve one problem - which wasn't nearly as overblown as it was made to seem - has only created another as now SE's gotten new people interested, but you're all too frequently thrown into matches you literally can't control, even if performing at your absolute best. An "e-sport" level competitive mode simply can't happen when people "just wing it".

Even if not played for serious competition, it's not "fun" to just "wing it" when you actually know what to do. How "fun" would PvE content be if say, the enemy had a big flashing weak point that should be attacked, you've even marked it, but no one's attacking it. Oh, you can't tell them to attack it because you can't chat. Oh and there's no specific command to order them to attack that point. And by the way you're close to the enrage timer too. . . Sounds like "fun" doesn't it? That's why people just LOVE those first timers in farm parties, right? I mean, who cares if they know the fight or how to even play their job right. Just wing it, right?

Yeah, I mean, who needs efficient communication in a ranked mode anyway? Nah, we don't need to bother new players with basic rules such as: "don't take 10 stacks", "don't let BLM freecast", "their healer is short on mana/can't protect against cc", "let x class build its gauge", they'll eventually discover it by themselves. Subtilities are for filthy elitists after all. I guess I should just erase all my macros for those useless things.

More seriously, you wouldn't even think of removing chat just because somes acted as jerks in any other pve content. Right now, it's basically as if I cannot explain shinryu's strat because a good part of assholes leave the fight before it even started.

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Originally Posted by ThirdChild_ZKI

Exactly. You just wing it.

Before 3.5, some of us LEARNED IT, and for that reason we won consistently. We taught others, we gave advice, we communicated, and

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Could you summarize that?

Because all I'm getting is "No fun allowed unless it's the way I want fun to be had."

Spare me your attempt at witty humor. You're on page 88 of all that ever needed to be said on this matter.

If you don't know the larger points being made here, then you've turned more of a blind eye to it than SE ever did.

But ignorance is bliss, I suppose.

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Originally Posted by ThirdChild_ZKI

Spare me your attempt at witty humor.

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Listen passive aggressive-chan I have the right to say how I feel even if it's page 100. There's never a 100% on anything nor will there ever will be. I think it's fine and I'm sure someone in the page 60's said so too.

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Originally Posted by Clethoria

After playing some matches.

Nah.

I like not having chat. It's simple and clean. Pure even. Attacking Role/Fall back and marking are all thats needed for a victory to which I've gotten a few of. Though if it's not viable for a win, please discredit the wins I have taken with further proof.

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Have fun playing in your bubble with what might as well be AI bots. I on the other hand enjoy and wish to continue playing, talking, and interacting with other players in this MULTIPLAYER game.

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Originally Posted by Clethoria

Listen passive aggressive-chan I have the right to say how I feel even if it's page 100. There's never a 100% on anything nor will there ever will be. I think it's fine and I'm sure someone in the page 60's said so too.

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And they were just as wrong as you are. Passive aggressive? Nah, I'm telling you to your face, you're wrong and you don't know what you're talking about.

This thread was started BEFORE THE CHANGE, which pointed out the exact problems it indeed caused. "Please give us your suggestions and feedback!" And when we did it got ignored for half the length it currently is. And when answered, it was even further ignored. So we watched pretty much everything we said might happen that could be a problem come true. What we have now is an absolute mess where even people who don't know what it was like question the lack of being able to chat. Sure, a few people have tried to come along and say "oh it's better this way, oh I like it like this", but they're just as wrong as you are, and your "right to say" doesn't fix that one bit.

Seriously, go back and read what you're posting in. You claim you win a lot simply by winging it. . . Imagine actually being able to coordinate with your team. Don't look at the potential bad for a moment, but look at what's actually good about it and ask yourself if "just winging it" is more effective than actual coordination and strategy. Go say that to a raider and get laughed at. Go say that to anyone playing a competitive game and get laughed at. Maybe I'm coming off a bit mean - and at that, too bloody bad. Don't try to act cute - but this was a heated issue long before you chimed in. I won't mince words one bit on this: if you think not having proper communication in what's supposed to be a competitive gameplay mode is a good thing, you are, quite simply, wrong.

Here's hoping the restrictions are removed...

It continues to be incredibly frustrating to be unable to give clear instructions. New players can unintentionally throw a match, too, by not being told what to do - and they risk adopting bad habits such as charging in without a healer nearby or grabbing every medal they see because they're oblivious to the dangers of doing just that. Assuming they even grab medals at all, of course...

s5 is upon us, lots on new players coming and hopefully getting spanked by seasoned players and they will not understand how because we will not be able to explain to them.
bring chat back!

Since thread was just bumped back up, didn't Yoshi-P say that at the start of SB he would personally talk about/explain why they made the chat ban? Can't find the comment/interview/community rep statement, but I know it was said months ago.

Might not be anything we haven't already assumed, but it was something I wanted to hear/read.

edit: Ah, found it on page 80 of this thread:

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Q: At the moment, every PvPer I have spoken to has claimed the disable of chat in the feast as the major factor to why they don’t want to participate in it anymore. While it’s understood that this is meant to reduce toxicity, but harms the competitive strategies players may develop, as well as means to teach other players. Are there any plans to revert this change?

Yoshida:
I’m planning to make a forum post addressing this by the release of Stormblood, so if you could kindly stand by for more information!

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So... where is it? Did I miss it or...?

no, he didnt say anything at all. maybe with new pvp mode on 4.1 he will say something but im still not positive about it.

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Originally Posted by ThirdChild_ZKI

Imagine actually being able to coordinate with your team.

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Those that want to coordinate and can behave are outnumbered by those that just say "Kill healer" and/or "Kill ranged" at the beginning, stays quiet for the majority of the match and then loses their shit when the healer doesn't happen to be as good as the opposing healer.

I rather have chat disabled than having to blacklist 1 or 2 people after every match. Not really inviting to have the chat log full of insults.

Dam what are you guys doing that there are apparently mean people in every match lmao. I did PvP for the very first time in season 1 as a healer and I was absolutely terrible and didn't get near the amount of rage that apparently some people get. I'm sensing a little bit of gross exaggeration...

When in season 1 it sucks that the majority of chat was used to belittle your own teammates vice working together. Since the start of season 5 really feeling it now and wishing I could chat with my team to help win the match instead of everyone running around hitting other targets to be the hero instead of working together. Even with the quick chat the first few hours I've played most players ignore and want to solo kill another target and it throws the match.

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Originally Posted by OskarXCI

Those that want to coordinate and can behave are outnumbered by those that just say "Kill healer" and/or "Kill ranged" at the beginning, stays quiet for the majority of the match and then loses their shit when the healer doesn't happen to be as good the the opposing healer.

I rather have chat disabled than having to blacklist 1 or 2 people after every match. Not really inviting to have the chat log full of insults.

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So, having to possibly blacklist 1 or 2 people who go too far or say too much holds more weight than an entire community and game mode having the ability to communicate and strategize in a competitive environment?

We're all adults here. Do we really need to be told to behave ourselves and mind our manners? Worse still, do we all need to pay for those that don't do so?

The chat ban is, and always has been a terrible idea that has done more harm than good to the Feast.

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Originally Posted by MixZ

When in season 1 it sucks that the majority of chat was used to belittle your own teammates vice working together. Since the start of season 5 really feeling it now and wishing I could chat with my team to help win the match instead of everyone running around hitting other targets to be the hero instead of working together. Even with the quick chat the first few hours I've played most players ignore and want to solo kill another target and it throws the match.

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Yup seen this all day. And players not falling back when healer is down. Also stacking like crazy. Season 5 is looking rough so far.

Still no news, eh?

A shame. I really, really want to get into competitive PvP. I first only bothered with it as a challenge to myself to get all the Garo related titles, achievements, mounts and gear sets. Later on, though, I ended up liking it despite my frustration at the lack of an efficient communication tool. So I ended up pushing to get the Gloria mount as well!

The next logical step is to tackle the ranked version of PvP but I can't bring myself to do so when there's no way to communicate clear strategies to one's teammates. I can't help but wonder how many people are in the same position.