Main Scenario Restriction Bloodstorm - Very Very Bad idea.

There are certain dungeons that aren't tied to the msq, but these are because they have literally nothing to do with the msq. The ones that are tied to the msq are there because they literally develop the story. Looking at how they design content, they don't have anything that's, 'Here, just spam this for exp, later'. There aren't any pointless instances in game, all of them have a purpose. Not up to stone Vigil? Yeah, the adventurer isn't gonna risk his neck diving into a dragon's nest on a childish whim. Having a reason for the madness is part of why this game is so great. Everything has a purpose, everything has a reason.

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Originally Posted by Naunet

That doesn't counter what I said. Introducing the dungeons with a story does NOT have to necessitate tying them purely to the MSQ. The MSQ can still send you into the dungeons, but there should be separate short quests a la all the other unlock quests that only require a certain level instead of MSQ completion.

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Alright, let me make this a bit more plain since you are incapable of understanding.

This game is heavily focused on the story. Period. If you don't like it. This is the wrong game for you. Period. Everything, not just dungeons, is tied to the MSQ. Examples:


Inn Rooms and Levequests - You are such a nobody that you have to prove yourself to the Adventurer's guild through the MSQ before you can have access to these.

Airship Transportation - You can't even leave your starting area, until you advance far enough through the MSQ and get an airship pass.

Retainers - your 'bank' and your ability to sell on the Marketboard. You have to reach a point in the MSQ before you are even allowed one. (Shortly after you meet Minfilia for the first time)

Personal Mounts - You have to be invited to join a Grand Company after drawing their attentions with killing Ifrit (more MSQ). Before that, you are just a nobody.

Job Crystals - Though they put it in to combat RMT, you now have to get just past joining a Grand Company in the MSQ before you can even advance past being a base class.

The Isle of Umbra - Sub zone of Western La Noscea, you cannot go here till you reach a certain part of the MSQ.

The Heavensward Jobs - You have to advance through the MSQ to the point you enter Isghard before you can even pick them up, because their stories revolve around why you are in Ishgard and what you've experienced thus far. (I.E. Dark Knight is heavily influenced by the MSQ)

Flying in Heavensward zones - Yep, even this is locked behind the MSQ because there are aether currents as rewards.


So, with ALL that.. Explain to me, why in the world would they ever retroactively go back through the game and untangle EVERYTHING from the MSQ, just because a few people would prefer to skip it and have access to everything without the "why?" It's completely ludicrous to even ask for them to consider it at this point. The MSQ is the driving line of FFXIV, like it or not. That is the counter argument, and as absolutely plain as I can make it.

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Originally Posted by Xlantaa

Very Very Very bad idea let players skip stuff or give them level 60 by the face. Games starts form the beggining, not from the end. Sorry but the XXIth century "gamer" mentality of "please give me all here and now without time and effort" is the worst thing hapenning in the videogame world. So, I won't support such thing. Games start form the beggining.

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The only reason that has ever worked in games like WoW, is because each expansion is its own individual story, despite the lore that has encouraged its birth. Bloodstorm could be seen as a direct continuation from Realm Reborn, since Ishgard was practically a side trip to tie up loose ends created by Realm Reborn's latent events. Unless people get a kick out of starting from the middle of a book and reading from there, with no proper context or idea as to what just happened for the past 300 pages, it'd be a terrible idea to offer a jump.

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Originally Posted by CheshirePuss

The only reason that has ever worked in games like WoW, is because each expansion is its own individual story, despite the lore that has encouraged its birth.

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Wut?

So, uh...Blackwing Descent. Please elaborate how that is not tied to Onyxia and Blackwing lair from Classic. In WoW, you can do Magisters Terrace and have Kael'thas say something about a setback, then do Tempest Keep and see that you were the setback he was referring to - that is within the same expansion. And the entire story about Illidan in Legion is a continuation of the burning crusade (Where, I think, he still sits comfortably in Hellfire Citadel?). It works in WoW because people simply don't give a damn.

There is some difference of course - WoW actually gives you a lot of lore from WC3 or the books in WoW itself, so that you can understand what's happening. The battle at icecrown glacier, Arthas fall from grace etc etc, all those little things you need to understand what is going on that happened prior are given a quick recap, much like most book authors keep briefly re-introducing characters - every time Munstrum Ridcully appears in a discworld novel, there will be a note that he is the arch-chancellor of the unseen university, even though followers will already know that. SE would just have you play through WC3 or read their first book first before allowing you to create a character in WoW or open the second book and then eschew giving those recaps.

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Originally Posted by Xlantaa

Very Very Very bad idea let players skip stuff or give them level 60 by the face. Games starts form the beggining, not from the end. Sorry but the XXIth century "gamer" mentality of "please give me all here and now without time and effort" is the worst thing hapenning in the videogame world. So, I won't support such thing. Games start form the beggining.

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This post deserves to get even more likes.

I could personally do without the crowd in WoW coming over and trying to make FFXIV like WoW. Requests like these are how it starts. Ending up with a community like over there is how it ends. I'll pass if I get a vote.

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Originally Posted by NotEvenClose

I could personally do without the crowd in WoW coming over and trying to make FFXIV like WoW. Requests like these are how it starts. Ending up with a community like over there is how it ends. I'll pass if I get a vote.

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The world feels alive the way the MSQ is weaved into everything. You are in this location for a reason.

Every location you visit has a purpose. Hell, future jobs might even comment on what you did in ishgard making the world you're playing feel alive and expand.

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Originally Posted by Naunet

That doesn't counter what I said. Introducing the dungeons with a story does NOT have to necessitate tying them purely to the MSQ. The MSQ can still send you into the dungeons, but there should be separate short quests a la all the other unlock quests that only require a certain level instead of MSQ completion.

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I'm surprised you keep coming back to FFXIV. I recognise your name from various FFXIV related forums and I find myself rather concerned - much of your discussion regarding the game is negatively worded and you seem to often express a desire for sweeping changes to be made for your own convenience even if they do not fit the game's model/pattern.

Dare I say it but you may very well be happier elsewhere. Or at least happier here if you acknowledge that the current model works for a great many people playing this game and is related to why they chose FFXIV as their MMO of choice.

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Originally Posted by Dorander

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Very few of what you listed were blocked for real story reasons. Your second point is false as you are perfectly able to run out of the Shroud and into Thanalan regardless of MSQ completion. Access to retainers doesn't really make much sense being locked to helping the Scions with the MSQ, considering there's nothing in the lore that says they're only something the Warrior of Light can use - being of sufficient level suggests enough growth of influence/power. Personal mounts make zero sense, as I don't need a Grand Company's permission to use a mount that is not provided by the Grand Company (couerl, behemoth, ahriman, fat chocobos, the broom, etc). Not sure why you mentioned job crystals because there's clearly no actual lore motivation behind restricting that. Likewise plenty of "average joe" npcs can sail to and from the mainland to the Isles of Umbra without being a hero of the Scions - so why must we?

I've already discussed at length why I feel that the HW jobs do NOT necessitate being in Ishgard. It's not like we are unaware of Ishgard prior to HW - we interact with them through Coerthas. The 30-45 stories can easily be done outside of that (and in fact, DO take place outside of it).

Not a single time have I advocated removing story from the game. I've simply pointed out where limitations make no sense and where they can be reasonably lifted without affecting the MSQ at all.

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Originally Posted by FinalWolf

The world feels alive the way the MSQ is weaved into everything. You are in this location for a reason.

Every location you visit has a purpose. Hell, future jobs might even comment on what you did in ishgard making the world you're playing feel alive and expand.

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I can be in Sastasha (or whatever else) for a reason without having to wait for the MSQ funnel me there. The MSQ can ALSO send you there, but it doesn't take much thought to realize there are plenty of reasons to venture into these places beyond "Minfilia/Thancred/etc told me to."

I think people should be allowed to skip the story if they really wish, but still need to complete the instances. I understand and agree there are way too many scenario quests now for new players to drag themselves through to get to relevant content, but we can't have level 60 (70 by then) players who literally don't have a clue how to play the game. That wouldn't be fair on current players.

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Originally Posted by Naunet

Very few of what you listed were blocked for real story reasons. Your second point is false as you are perfectly able to run out of the Shroud and into Thanalan regardless of MSQ completion. Access to retainers doesn't really make much sense being locked to helping the Scions with the MSQ, considering there's nothing in the lore that says they're only something the Warrior of Light can use - being of sufficient level suggests enough growth of influence/power. Personal mounts make zero sense, as I don't need a Grand Company's permission to use a mount that is not provided by the Grand Company (couerl, behemoth, ahriman, fat chocobos, the broom, etc). Not sure why you mentioned job crystals because there's clearly no actual lore motivation behind restricting that. Likewise plenty of "average joe" npcs can sail to and from the mainland to the Isles of Umbra without being a hero of the Scions - so why must we?

I've already discussed at length why I feel that the HW jobs do NOT necessitate being in Ishgard. It's not like we are unaware of Ishgard prior to HW - we interact with them through Coerthas. The 30-45 stories can easily be done outside of that (and in fact, DO take place outside of it).

Not a single time have I advocated removing story from the game. I've simply pointed out where limitations make no sense and where they can be reasonably lifted without affecting the MSQ at all.

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Yes, you may be able to run out of the Shroud or Thanalan, but you are LOCKED into the island La Noscea If you happened to start as a class there. You cannot take a boat, and you cannot take the airship. It tells you exactly WHY you can't, if you payed attention to the MSQ. Due to the hostilies of the Garlean empire travel was restricted, which is why you are granded the ability from the head of state dependant on your starting city.

You also may be able to learn those mounts pre-grand company but you can't use them. Because it is required by lore to have a license, which basically says you have been authorized and are knowledgeable to ride a chocobo (or other creature) in Eorzea.

As for retainers - Minfilia says and I quote "Naturally, your aid will not go unrewarded. We are fortunate enough to have a number of influential allies, and at word from me, they will gladly afford you certain privileges that might otherwise be denied you." "The right to employ retainers, for example. Are you familiar with them? They are individual's who may be relied upon to manage your assets and belongings on your behalf."
Tataru walks in, hands Minfilia papers, she signs them, and says "By way of a welcoming gift, I have taken the liberty of adding your name to the retainers' registry. As of now you are entitled to employ the services of a retainer."

You as a nobody, didn't have the clout to even have a retainer, let alone enough to talk to anyone about it.

I mentioned job crystals because it is a restriction of the MSQ. You are a nobody until you prove yourself time and again and those people who give you those said job crystals won't even consider you worthy to have them until you have made a name for yourself. Example, again from the Dark Knight story line: Your Darkside is basically your resentment at the people who ask you do dangerous stuff, with little to no reward or even a thank you, and by the point you've reached Ishgard in the MSQ you've got more than enough resentment built up.

As for Ishgard itself, again you must have not payed attention to the MSQ. Ishgard was pre-3.0 very xenophobic. NOBODY unless they were given permission or made a ward of a high house could even enter the city proper, even merchants.

So yes, all those limitations make perfect sense, even if you don't see it.

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Originally Posted by MrPresident

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I have a feeling that people who skip the story will actually try to be a decent player, since they're trying to get to the fun part ASAP. The argument has also shifted into letting dungeons and such be accessible when you meet the right level/ilevel, rather than have it locked behind a MSQ (so story skippers will still do the dungeon for experience). It takes away the pressure from raiders who do enjoy the story, but are in a static who want to do the end-game content ASAP. It also means SE won't have to do what they did with Gordias and release it two-four weeks after the expansion comes out... assuming that was the reason it was delayed.

For unlocking EX Trials, SE could change the dialogue for those who haven't beaten the Normal mode fight. SE could also change the dialogue in the story in case you're being asked to run through a dungeon you already have access to.

I like the lore in FFXIV, but it shouldn't limit (limit being gameplay progression) the game to a point where it makes the PS3 limitations look better in comparison.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

Or at least happier here if you acknowledge that the current model works for a great many people playing this game and is related to why they chose FFXIV as their MMO of choice.

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Of course it works, but is it really so bad to give players (who just want to do the content/gameplay when they meet the level/ilevel) the option to do it before the MSQ requests them to enter? Is this really going to ruin/break the game?

I don't understand some people's mentality. The "I had to do the story so everyone should have to do the story" is incredibly short sighted. If a new player hops in the game but doesn't want to go through months of story just to play with their friends he might quit. That player then goes on to play something else. The player convinces his friends to come play with him. Now the game is losing players and the grind to replenish those players is deterring new blood. It's a situation that can snowball pretty fast. What does it matter if someone wants to do the story? Why should any of you dictate how another person can enjoy a GAME or spend THEIR money? Keeping in mind that the chance of you meeting said person and being able to discriminate them are very remote. What does it matter really so long as SE has money coming in to develop the story you love so much?

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Originally Posted by Nestama

It also means SE won't have to do what they did with Gordias and release it two-four weeks after the expansion comes out... assuming that was the reason it was delayed.

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The reason for gordias being delayed was to allow players to enjoy the levelling content and new jobs at a leisurely pace, without those interested in the world first race being screwed into speed running this content to get to endgame as fast as possible, which is even worse if they wanted to play/learn one of the new jobs.

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Originally Posted by Nestama

This is also a very reasonable response. Just let people who don't really care about the story be allowed to do content when they're the right level/ilevel (even the dungeons that would usually require you to do the story to unlock them). Including end-game content that has nothing to do with the Main Story.

This way, even raiders who like the story, but are pressured by their static to 'hurry up' to the hardcore raid, can always go back and do they story quests when their static isn't raiding that day/hour.

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I like this idea, but let take it 1step more.. Im fine with this BUT i feel that you MUST have finished the story on ONE charter be for you can just "skip" all this on a 2nd/Alt. SE alrdy said they wont EVERONE to do it all one time be for they let you just "Fly" over it (Opening up flying).

So do the same for story/alts. Make ppl do it all one time on there 1sy play. then let THEM pick if they want to do it all over on a alt.

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Originally Posted by Gravton

I don't understand some people's mentality. The "I had to do the story so everyone should have to do the story" is incredibly short sighted. If a new player hops in the game but doesn't want to go through months of story just to play with their friends he might quit. That player then goes on to play something else. The player convinces his friends to come play with him. Now the game is losing players and the grind to replenish those players is deterring new blood.

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Well isnt this the friends fault too? I mean if I want someone I know to play the game with me I should tell that person about the many story quests that will await them. And if the only way that they can have fun is by running end game dungeons for days end than as a good friend you will help them with the older stuff and make it faster.

Well it matters because the question remains if SE will even put that much money in the story again if they had to take money and time into their hands to change the ARR and HW story to make it fit for those. The HW story had way less "filler" in it and that might be nice if you have to catch up but as someone that enjoyed the story I felt that it was over way to fast in each 3.x patch.

I am just not sure if someone that plays through the story again because they want to level their alt is really a good way to judge if its to bad or not because that person already knows the story while its completely new for someone that never played it before and when I was part of a FC I had more than enough new people that were quite fast in reaching the HW story quests (only took them some weeks) and some of them got bored quite fast too with the end game and stopped playing..

It would be kinda interesting to know how many people truly stopped playing because of the story and how many stopped for other reasons or even stopped because they good bored after reaching end game content..its not like Savage is for everyone and if you are not into gathering and crafting I am not sure if there is much left to do in the game to keep you playing all the time.

@Nestama: I am not really sure how someone is more interested in becoming decent just because they jumped over the story? I mean I had some people that did not care about the story and skipped them (thus probably being the ones that might skip them completely if they have the chance) and I can say for a certain that a lot of them did not play their class very well or even had no idea to play their class. I know that this is only my experience and that can be quite different to ours but I just wanted to write that those exist too.

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Originally Posted by Alleo

And if the only way that they can have fun is by running end game dungeons for days end than as a good friend you will help them with the older stuff and make it faster.

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You can't help players much with the MSQ. You can only help with the dungeons and trials, but those are probably the least time consuming part of it. You can't talk to Minfilia in your friends stead, you can't help with story battles (You even have to disband the group for them) and playing chocobo porter with a 2-seater becomes obsolete from 20 onward (Until HW).

They will have to do it on their own.

I just don't support SE spending millions of dollars to create dialogue with story skipping elements, testing the skipping, and spending countless man hours to make it so people can skip multiple pieces of content. When that money can be used to improve current and future game modes

lot of back and forth here but still no confirmation anything has even been said like the OP suggested. I have yet to see any proof of Yoshi saying stormblood will require all of ARR and HW to be completed before starting stormblood. If its out there someone link it.

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Originally Posted by Nestama

I have a feeling that people who skip the story will actually try to be a decent player, since they're trying to get to the fun part ASAP.

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The fun part? It is the quests and leveling which is the fun part. The so-called endgame is mostly a boring grind to fill out time until more content gets added. Well, that is my opinion anyway - one which I am sure not everyone shares.

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Originally Posted by Krazymagic

lot of back and forth here but still no confirmation anything has even been said like the OP suggested. I have yet to see any proof of Yoshi saying stormblood will require all of ARR and HW to be completed before starting stormblood. If its out there someone link it.

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It is the most likely scenario.

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Also, no one has pointed out yet the other complications of using a jump potion that I asked about last time. Or at least one I had not seen.

Will you be given a lv.60 job? Will you be given multiple 60's? Will those quests be completed? Will you be given ground and flying mounts (flying mounts needed to complete Heavensward)? Will you already be affiliated with a Grand Company(have to choose one for MSQ)? Will dungeons be unlocked for you?

FFXIV is a heavily story/lore driven game where the narrative is based around you. It isn't like WoW where the world is evolving you just happen to be in it and witnessing it. Jumping to current events makes more sense in a game like WoW.

I feel like I have said this before. It isn't impossible, but there is a lot of hardships in creating an item that jumps you right to Stormblood.

Requirement for ARR and HW MSQ to be completed is fantastic idea, realy realy good idea. You should be demoted from WoL if you cant complete MSQ by your own volition, go play wow or any other mmo where story is just some backside addon if its there at all. Those who want to skip MSQ are one of those who are subbing just for one month get bored make some REALY shitty whinings on forums and reddit about how other mmo's has this and that.... Friend argument is realy thin, if you cant spend some 2 weeks to blast through just a main story at leisure pace.

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Originally Posted by Velhart

It is the most likely scenario.

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So, as I said, Yoshi hasnt even said anything like this. The OP just made this up and people have been bickering about it for nearly 90 pages now, and was never even said. The only thing I do know yoshi suggested in the past was that 4.0 would be seperate from heavensward, and the suggestion was that you wouldnt need to do HW to get to stormblood. I think the most likely scenario would actually be Stormblood requiring ARR to be completed, but then having HW and Stormblood both open around the same time, and not be a linear progression. Lets stick to fact though, and right now nothing the OP has said has been verified. I cant even find any hint of Yoshi P saying any of the stuff he claimed.

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Originally Posted by Krazymagic

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Iirc, at FanFest, all that was said in regards to the new expac was that they probably wouldn't gate things like Jobs behind the MSQ. I seem to remember them saying you'd still need to follow the story to access the MSQ in Stormblood, but the actual areas and Jobs probably won't be gated. I could be mis-remembering, however.

I feel new players should still go thru ARR and HW first that way they learn their jobs and get involves in the story. What SE can do to help them is maybe have an abbreviated version of the pre Stormblood MSQ that cuts out a lot of the crap quests like Go talk to X or take this to Y and offer up more exp points to balanced the cutdown in quests. I also believe the new jobs should be open to all

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Originally Posted by Krazymagic

lot of back and forth here but still no confirmation anything has even been said like the OP suggested. I have yet to see any proof of Yoshi saying stormblood will require all of ARR and HW to be completed before starting stormblood. If its out there someone link it.

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Ive linked it many times over already in threads. When he did his interview at E3(2016) with gamerescape he says that the story is continuous and that the player goes through ARR and on to the expansions. He also mentions not locking everything behind the MSQs like what happened in 3.0. He then mentions the stupid skipping/lvl jump potion crap afterwards.

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Originally Posted by MistakeNot

The fun part? It is the quests and leveling which is the fun part. The so-called endgame is mostly a boring grind to fill out time until more content gets added. Well, that is my opinion anyway - one which I am sure not everyone shares.

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If you are into lore and playing casually/roleplay sure, but most of people wanna play the actual game which means: doing dungeons/raids/pvp/crafting/gearing up your character, basically doing all the content, thats where the fun is for them. Sure they will skip the story but that's their choice, no knowledge of lore is their "punishment". Gating new expansion MSQ/leveling behind old quests from previous expansions is not a smart move, especially after several expansions in the future.

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Originally Posted by MistakeNot

The so-called endgame is mostly a boring grind to fill out time until more content gets added

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Then you blame game's lack of content, not a player.

I just want to add that there's no guarantee of someone being good and learning their job by doing MSQ. The duty finder thread has proven that. Also, because there are multiple jobs in the game, how is MSQ supposed to help if someone has done it with mainly one role but now decides to main another after it?

I'll never advocate for a jump potion but I wanted to point this out because I see people here using this as an argument and its pretty flimsy imo.

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Originally Posted by SenorPatty

I just want to add that there's no guarantee of someone being good and learning their job by doing MSQ. The duty finder thread has proven that. Also, because there are multiple jobs in the game, how is MSQ supposed to help if someone has done it with mainly one role but now decides to main another after it?

I'll never advocate for a jump potion but I wanted to point this out because I see people here using this as an argument and its pretty flimsy imo.

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I don't think they is a tutorial in the world that can help how bad some are at the game. The system just does not click for some people. Best way to teach people is giving them the basics during leveling and then offer somewhat challenging content in job quests. For end game the team needs to offer more challenge and mechanics to the fight, but not an overbearing amount. Just enough that you need to get up and actually contribute. So they can be more easily worked into the harder content of the game or get an idea of what they need to do.

Easier said than done, but that is how it should be ideally set up.

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Originally Posted by Velhart

I don't think they is a tutorial in the world that can help how bad some are at the game. The system just does not click for some people. Best way to teach people is giving them the basics during leveling and then offer somewhat challenging content in job quests. For end game the team needs to offer more challenge and mechanics to the fight, but not an overbearing amount. Just enough that you need to get up and actually contribute. So they can be more easily worked into the harder content of the game or get an idea of what they need to do.

Easier said than done, but that is how it should be ideally set up.

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I agree, but want to mention that challenge isn't always specific to individual difficulty. A lot of the bad players tend to stem from the games primary focus on the self, rather than the group. It'd be good to have more content that focuses on team efforts, which for this playerbase, must be introduced slowly and in an obvious and mandatory manner. Output is important, but this game sorely lacks a focus on needing the group to be responsible, instead of just the individual player.

I actually think things would go better if 8 and 24-man content were more streamlined into a dungeon-esque situation, similar to how 24-man content is currently (which means it'd be nice to see more of it). Branched off paths that eventually come together, boss or trash mob mechanics that require interacting with something in the environment, a need for 4-8 players to run a gauntlet while the rest of the group handle the main boss, etc. Stuff that is either obvious and automatic or that requires a quick "strategy" assignment to a group. Not saying to lessen the amount of the "right-to-the-boss" type of layout we normally expect, but rather to add in a couple of the type mentioned.

CC mechanics could always make a come back in some way, with removed non-stun DR punishment in PvE (but maybe a reduced duration). Something to just bring an importance back to group coordination, rather than simply focusing on gearing up to burn down the target faster. It can still be very casual, despite a reduced need to focus on DPS numbers. That DPS output currently is clearly too much to expect according to the devs with the upcoming combat changes, so I don't really see a problem with making group focused duties fun, rather than individual output.

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Originally Posted by MistakeNot

The fun part? It is the quests and leveling which is the fun part. The so-called endgame is mostly a boring grind to fill out time until more content gets added. Well, that is my opinion anyway - one which I am sure not everyone shares.

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Like you said, that's your opinion. If you read my entire post, I never mentioned skipping the levelling up progress (though 1-50 is pretty boring compared to 50-60), but rather giving players the option to do new dungeons and such the moment they meet the right level/ilevel. They can always go back and do the story (especially if they want to level up another Job. Free exp).

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Originally Posted by MistakeNot

The fun part? It is the quests and leveling which is the fun part. The so-called endgame is mostly a boring grind to fill out time until more content gets added. Well, that is my opinion anyway - one which I am sure not everyone shares.

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Indeed, as leveling and quests only take up a very small portion of the game and once those are done, there isn't much else to do, once all jobs are 60 and all quests done then what do you do?

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Originally Posted by Dorander

You also may be able to learn those mounts pre-grand company but you can't use them. Because it is required by lore to have a license, which basically says you have been authorized and are knowledgeable to ride a chocobo (or other creature) in Eorzea.

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There is no such licence mentioned in the lore. In fact, nothing in the quest makes any mention of other mounts. It's purely about the chocobo your Grand Company is issuing you (and there's no licence for that either). The fact that other mounts also get unlocked at the same time you get your chocobo is purely a gameplay rule with no lore basis to it.

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Originally Posted by Dorander

I mentioned job crystals because it is a restriction of the MSQ. You are a nobody until you prove yourself time and again and those people who give you those said job crystals won't even consider you worthy to have them until you have made a name for yourself.

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With the exception of Summoner (and possibly the HW jobs, I'm not sure what those quests say), the other job quests only reference the name you've made for yourself by doing the preceding class quests. They don't reference anything in the Main Scenario.

In fact, initially, they didn't require any Main Scenario progress. SE added that requirement later, to make sure everyone was keeping up with the main part of the game. But no changes were made to the quests or their lore when the MSQ requirement was added. So that's also a gameplay rather than lore requirement.


EDIT: I do agree with your overall point, though, just not with these examples.

I'll never understand why people have the wrong idea. Think about it this way. The main scenario is setting the stage, heavens ward is the intermission of a similar plight and getting you prep up for upcoming battles and a limit break. Yes a level limit break. The third expansion will go to a current struggle and eventually will lead to the orient. If you don't see this you are not putting attention to what is happening to the character. It would be the same as wanting to have over confident players forgetting simple mechanics. Besides SE is being generous by giving lots of XP to get one job to max level fast instead of grinding. What more can people ask. Pls power level us while we are at school or at work? really?

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Originally Posted by Niwashi

There is no such licence mentioned in the lore. In fact, nothing in the quest makes any mention of other mounts. It's purely about the chocobo your Grand Company is issuing you (and there's no licence for that either). The fact that other mounts also get unlocked at the same time you get your chocobo is purely a gameplay rule with no lore basis to it.



With the exception of Summoner (and possibly the HW jobs, I'm not sure what those quests say), the other job quests only reference the name you've made for yourself by doing the preceding class quests. They don't reference anything in the Main Scenario.

In fact, initially, they didn't require any Main Scenario progress. SE added that requirement later, to make sure everyone was keeping up with the main part of the game. But no changes were made to the quests or their lore when the MSQ requirement was added. So that's also a gameplay rather than lore requirement.


EDIT: I do agree with your overall point, though, just not with these examples.

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Forgive me, I miss remembered on the chocobo thing. I could have sworn it was for a license instead of just an issuance. I'll retract my statement on that then.


I did say in an earlier post that they did in fact add the MSQ requirement of getting to a just past joining a Grand Company purely to combat RMT. It is true that there is no mention of what you've accomplished in the MSQ to take up a job, the reverse is actually true. If you have dragoon unlocked and/or finished the level 50 quest, Estinien does mention you being the 'other' Azure Dragoon when you start getting into pre-heavensward MSQ line. So in at least that regard, that job is tied into the MSQ. I would even go so far to say that there will probably be a mention come Stormsblood, if you have monk unlocked/have completed certain quests, even if they are minor.

My whole point being however, is they do subtle nods to certain accomplishments through out the MSQ to what you've done. Just this past 3.4 patch if you had completed all of Coil, you got extra lines of dialog from Allisae. Though that was purely optional content. The MSQ is the driving line of this game, and everything revolves around it. Cutting it or making it optional is never going to happen.

My biggest problem with the main story up until before Heavensward is the monotonous quest fillers that take place between all the really important stuff.

A powerful Primal has appeared, and it must be dealt with immediately lest it grows stronger and destroys the surrounding areas! Oh but first we need you to...

* Travel to a faraway city-state and question 3 individuals.
* Using their information travel down to this random portion of the map and search 5 designated spots. Kill any enemies that appear and take a specific body part.
* Bring those parts to a random person completely off the beaten trail and have him craft something with those parts.
* Said person refuses to help you unless you find the people who did insert despicable action. Hunt them down and make them pay. Start by questioning these 5 individuals for their whereabouts.
* Return to said person after questioning those individuals and find out their hiding place.
* Defeat roughly 3 of these people who did insert despicable action and return with something to prove it.
* Give evidence to said person and they will agree to help. While they're doing so, take this package to another random person standing just 5 feet away.
* Said another random person will then ask you to go speak to 3 more individuals to tell them to return to said another random person.
* Task completed return to said person who was crafting the item. They have finished but before you return to fight the Primal a crisis has occurred in another faraway city-state! Go investigate this new danger!

Toss in a random fight sequence, some more fetch and deliver stuff, and FINALLY you can go face the Primal. Maybe... The main problem with it all is just there's SOOO much backtracking and menial tasks between the really important stuff. Somebody important disappeared! Why do I need to go fetch a couple (3-5 depending on the developer's mood.) flowers, get a vase, fetch some water for said vase and flowers, and cull 3 enemies just to find out where they may have gone? I'm fine with some side-tracking, after all there's plenty of side-quests for that which give money and gear as well. But a lot of these are not optional quests, rather they are MANDATORY if you want to progress the story. It's just annoying. If they streamlined it while keeping the important bits in there it wouldn't be such a chore for new players or people making alts to progress through.

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Originally Posted by Zojha

You can't help players much with the MSQ. You can only help with the dungeons and trials, but those are probably the least time consuming part of it. You can't talk to Minfilia in your friends stead, you can't help with story battles (You even have to disband the group for them) and playing chocobo porter with a 2-seater becomes obsolete from 20 onward (Until HW).

They will have to do it on their own.

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Well it seems that this depends on the view. I am not someone that likes to run dungeons and as a DD my waiting time was quite long in the old 2.0 content. (I had to catch up to Shiva patch) So most of my time imo was used for dungeons, especially at the beginning where you had to go through a handful of them. If someone has friends that will unsynch those for them (especially the two story dungeons at 50 at the end of 2.0) than this will be quite faster than without friends. True they cant help with the story but if someone is truly not interested in it they can just skip the cutscene, so the only thing that will be left are the solo instanced battles and the walk between the quests.

And maybe that will sound harsh but if this is still way too much for those people than I am not sure if they will like FF14 in the long run. Solo instanced battles are a nice way to see if someone even knows their class and most of them are not that difficult. And thanks to teleport you can get around the world really fast. Some quest were a little annoying (go to A, B, C than to A again) but those are way less in HW and one should be able to endure them in the ARR questline. I play Black desert next to this game. It has lots of fetch quests and a main story too (but not as good as FF14) but you dont have teleportation. I dont know how much of my playtime was just afk running from one point to the other...Its a little faster on a mount but if you have some goods with you, you had to make sure that there are not bandits on the way. In FF14 its really a joke to get from one place to the other.

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Originally Posted by Alleo

If someone has friends that will unsynch those for them (especially the two story dungeons at 50 at the end of 2.0) than this will be quite faster than without friends.

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Uhm...you are forgetting something crucial - you do not only need the MSQ to advance, you also need XP. If you unsync someone through Sastasha through Copperbell, they will have 2 levels less than if they did these dungeons and they will then have to spend time elsewhere to get those XP, so in the end, you don't actually save a whole lot of time there. And unsyncing Castrum/Praetorium unfortunately doesn't shave off hours from the whole mountain either - at best a few minutes.

So, going back to the initial statement: No, I do not think it's the friends fault in any way. They can't do much about it.

That aside, this part of the MSQ is one people complain about the least and while I gladly admit that I don't meet a huge lot of new players on Balmung, none of the ones I did meet took any issue with that part. As a matter of fact, some voiced that they would have liked MORE MSQ up to 50, so they could level to 50 with MSQ alone instead of being walled every now and again (The 47-49 jump probably being the most jarring).

The part that gets complaining the most is the 2.1-2.55 part. In this part, you are looking at over 10 hours of playtime, only about 3 of those being spent in queues, dungeons and trials. Most of it is spent left clicking dialogue away, teleporting around the world and hitting escape -> left click to skip. Yes, even if you skip everything, even with all the teleportation we have, this will take most of your time. And people who actually read the dialogue and watch the cutscenes take weeks. If you are going about it casually, do your daily roulettes and a bit of MSQ every day, you can easily be 60 before even reaching HW - I do think that is way too much.

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Originally Posted by Nestama

Like you said, that's your opinion. If you read my entire post, I never mentioned skipping the levelling up progress (though 1-50 is pretty boring compared to 50-60), but rather giving players the option to do new dungeons and such the moment they meet the right level/ilevel. They can always go back and do the story (especially if they want to level up another Job. Free exp).

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Personally I find the 50-60 quests to be the boring ones compared to 1-50, but tastes clearly differ. One problem with letting people do dungeons early is that many of them are closely tied to the story and would make no sense if done too early.