SMN - Why it is not a very interesting job and not a good upgrade from ACN

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Originally Posted by Samuraiking

It's about SMN not being a traditional SMN.

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What is a traditional SMN?

I don't see what the problem with SMN is. They output the highest damage in the game as it is right now.

Traditionally it's a job where the Summoner controls a powerful entity, much more powerful than the Summoner himself, to do his bidding. Meaning, the Summoner doesn't have many abilities itself besides summoning an entity and controlling it. All of the abilities Summoners have mostly come from the powerful summons they have. Arcanist abilities(DoTs, etc) in FFXIV have never been a part of the Summoner job. So, for an MMO like this, your pet should be much more powerful than the caster. Right now, the Summoner is overwhelmingly more powerful than these Egis they have. This is why people are angry.

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Originally Posted by Razzorn

Traditionally it's a job where the Summoner controls a powerful entity, much more powerful than the Summoner himself, to do his bidding. Meaning, the Summoner doesn't have many abilities itself besides summoning an entity and controlling it. All of the abilities Summoners have mostly come from the powerful summons they have. Arcanist abilities(DoTs, etc) in FFXIV have never been a part of the Summoner job. So, for an MMO like this, your pet should be much more powerful than the caster.

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And which Final Fantasy game does that come from?

None of them? Maybe FFIII?

Apparently you haven't played many FF games. Any game where a Summoner appears, the Summons are much more powerful than the Summoner itself. Until this game anyways.

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Originally Posted by Razzorn

Apparently you haven't played many FF games. Any game where a Summoner appears, the Summons are much more powerful than the Summoner itself. Until this game anyways.

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Name one that isn't lore based.

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Originally Posted by Kevee

You missed the point. They are relatively weaker throughout.


It doesn't matter if anything else couldn't do more damage in a single action, if over the course of the animation you can get multiple actions that deal more total damage. You can't turn off animations, so why even bring it up? Not to mention KotR had it's own limitation in the MP cost, and unless you spent time grinding to master it, or mimic materia, only one person could master it. That's more of a limitation than LB when you can just pre-grind it for anything you needed.

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Feel free to continue to write off all but the most easily abused or overpowered summons. And you still don't get the point of why the single action is important to consider in what was essentially a turn based game.And in turn based games, if trying to be as efficient and effective as possible animation times become irrelevant. As when both sides can not act simultaneously damage/healing per action is what matters in determining if you win or loose, not damage per second. Even in games where multiple characters can act at the same time, it still comes back to damage per action, which is how you get those "best" DPS rotations. The only reason people did not use KotR all the time was due to boredom and impatience, not its strength. If you still don't get this, I am not going to waste any more time trying to get you to understand.

Which comes back the the whole reason why SMN does not feel like a SMN. XI's SMN at least felt like a SMN because they did have access to those big impactful moves, however they were pretty much forced into a healer in a pinch role anytime they really could not use those abilities. So in order to avoid those issues, they evidently decided to try an approach that puts more focus on the character than the summons themselves.

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Originally Posted by Kevee

And which Final Fantasy game does that come from?

None of them? Maybe FFIII?

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Final Fantasy X You control the summon until it dies or you send it away and can also teach it moves.

I don't think you're going to convince anyone that their opinion of what a summoner "should" be is "wrong".

You make good points but...isn't lore kinda, why people play this game? Because it is a Final Fantasy game, shouldn't justification that "summons" are powerful and awesome be enough? Why does it have to be numerically "the best"?

For that matter, why do we have bio? Who the heck used that? Bio's not very good compared to the "miming limit breaks" that you said. Doesn't make sense in this context.

And I used summons all the time, especially when fighting bosses, because um, they were neat looking? I loved the animations and stuff. Final Fantasy had always had super awesome flashy graphics for their summons and it was a joy (especially the first time) that you were able to summon something.

So that feeling is missing, and thats why I don't enjoy the theme of the class. Its efficacy has nothing to do with anything here. You could've called it a summoner, gave it a lance and lancer abilities, and make it do tons of damage, and people would complain, and I think even you would agree that is wrong. This is the same thing...except just because it is a "caster" type with a pet you somehow feel justified.

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Originally Posted by Inosaska

Final Fantasy X You control the summon until it dies or you send it away and can also teach it moves.

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They were also useless.

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Originally Posted by pandabearcat

except just because it is a "caster" type with a pet you somehow feel justified.

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I don't need to feel justified because I, as a player, don't define it. It has no definition besides "summons things."

That's what it does, and it's not like the pet is useless or means nothing.