Letter to MR Yoshi: Why parses system is destroying the ffxiv world.

Also I say I got bored of Dpsing because ppl expect you to have purple/orange logs or they treat you shit, I prefer bard that works on. A priority system and each run is different and you enjoy see your stuff proc. still don’t get how is fun to play if you strictly copy what other tells you to do like a puppet? it’s not your achievement. I personally play only with classes I can have fun with and for gears not logs but if I fancy to play a new class I don’t want to be discriminated because I can’t reach 6K! But if I can reach the minimum DPS required I am not damaging anyone in a weekly clear.

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Originally Posted by SaitoHikari

To be fair, that doesn't mean that the same should be allowed in this game.

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They kind of inadvertently limited the damage by hard endgame being functionally useless. it's more like other game's pvp in that large chunks of the playerbase ignore it, and it's not really required for basic pve progression. So parsing is mostly limited to it, and doesn't really create the arms race it would if it affected much wider pve systems.

The flip side though is casual content is drying up without long term raid progression, and its getting pretty bad. They kind of need to get people in some kind of raiding that last a lot longer than 2 weeks and is a lot more interesting than a daily dungeon or trial fight. I see way too many people in Limsa than in the rest of the game.

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Originally Posted by JohnSeal

Also I say I got bored of Dpsing because ppl expect you to have purple/orange logs or they treat you shit, I prefer bard that works on. A priority system and each run is different and you enjoy see your stuff proc. still don’t get how is fun to play if you strictly copy what other tells you to do like a puppet? it’s not your achievement.

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BRD may be priority based, but it still has basic rules that you always follow - failure to follow them means you're still playing sub-optimally. Like having 95+% DoT uptime, using IJ to both refresh your DoTs and snapshot buffs, and using your songs in the correct order for a boss encounter. Those are all optimal play. If you aren't doing them, you're not playing the job optimally. It doesn't matter that it's proc-based; the skeleton rotation for BRD doesn't change much outside of that.

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Originally Posted by JohnSeal

You guys are making extreme examples of SMN with 3k DPS that is almost impossible! Or which bard play just with few skills or using heavy shot over and over again? This are cases that you see 1 in 500 players. I repeat my concept: you train yourself a lot and master your class before to join savage content! If you can’t kill the dummy in SSS you don’t sabotage others party but if you reach THE MINIMUM REQUIRED (I think v1 for SMN is 4400ish I presume) If you want properly join she healers and tanks by their parses you can but need to study accurately the parses! You check uptime,death,ppl mistakes,dots uptime,use of roles and AT LAST DMG!
If a PLD doesn 3/4K dps bit doesn’t cover,use divine veil,interventions on Mt,Reprisal when required mean is still a bad tank to me! The DPS itself is secondary to this things I just listed.

Still the problem more than competency is attitude! I mean I made real life examples about healers refusing to heal because want a better parce or DPS making idiotic mistakes..

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That example might not be as extreme as you think there kiddo.

Is it nice when everyone in a group is cordial? Of course! I'd rather spend one run with 'toxic elitists' getting my clears than wiping repeatedly to o5s enrage with some nice people though.

Ideally you get both but at some point competence matters more than attitude - either one can cost you a clear but I think we all know which one does more often than not...

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Originally Posted by JohnSeal

But if I can reach the minimum DPS required I am not damaging anyone in a weekly clear.

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At this point I'm going to say learn Japanese and try raiding with the Japanese. Everyone there is expected to pull their weight. You WILL be internally blacklisted and you WILL end up banned from every group there. They will kick you on sight from dungeons, the works. Even from dungeons. The minimum damage required is a raid-wide damage. If you're falling short of your share, that's more for other people to pick up.

When I've raided with my static, the others had to pick up my slack. Now, there are disabilities at play and they may be affecting my personal skill ceiling (which is something this western community are tolerant about for the most part), which does change the situation somewhat. I'm still expected to perform to the best my disabilities allow me to though. Like let's say someone has one arm (extreme example), that's going to seriously impact how they play (and until fairly recently, disabled gamers wasn't a market addressed, but the adaptive controller Microsoft released looks to change that), and seriously lower their skill ceiling. If a group is told about that, they're more than happy to pick up the slack. Because that's a situation out of the player's control. So much for discrimination ey.

If you are punching below your share just because you want to, then yes you are damaging the other 7 players having to pick up your slack. If you're genuinely struggling and you explain this, most people will spare the time to try and support you (so long as you do your best to learn), but if you're doing it just because "toxic elitists", then yes, we are going to be miffed about it, and act "elitist" in your eyes. You reap what you sow. Funnily enough, despite me having a poor performance, I've not had players give me grief for the most part. Why? Because I at least own up to my mistakes, I communicate with them. If I feel I'm playing very poorly, I'll apologise. If my play doesn't improve relatively quickly, I'll look into dropping out so they can find someone better.

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Originally Posted by RiyahArp

the players are fine. raiders tend to define "detrimental" as stuff that never causes a wipe and only slows things down moderately. The thing where its an issue is genuinely hard content, and the mistakes are expected.

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I would say it depends on the raider. For some yes, they are that high. But I mean for example, I did look at it as "Did we clear? Yes, then we're good" within my static (except where my play was concerned, then I saw it was a case I had to be perfect being a 100th percentile WHM with non-BiS gear, with zero overheal, and essentially having my co-healer just DPS only throughout, aka impossible standards, or else I should be replaced despite being the leader. This is why I don't raid anymore, I was so harsh on myself it damn near killed off my mental health again, something which I thankfully have realised I need professional support for and am reaching out for it. And yes, it was a double standard, I didn't expect anywhere near the same from the rest of my static.), though I know I'm more to the exception.

Most people don't expect perfect play however, even within the raiding scene. Just a relevant level of competence that if everyone was playing at the same level of competence, we'd have enough damage and healing to complete the duty. Exceptions however do apply if there are situations outside of the player's control lowering how well they can play (disability being the example I've referred to in this post, but I'm sure others exist). It's only when you go into speedkills or log runs that it matters more beyond that. Now I'll admit, there will be some players who are that extreme even in casual content, but most don't care, even for dungeons. At most, we'll usually just groan and perhaps make a post on Tales from the Duty Finder afterwards (it's a good place to vent I won't lie, having made use of it myself on a few occasions).

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Originally Posted by SaitoHikari

I actually am in agreement with this. I haven't seen another community where people will actively defend someone intentionally playing in a way detrimental to the rest of the party. Of course, there does exist context where that is acceptable (early leveling dungeons and the player in question simply doesn't know), but by SB, you'd think people would have a clue.

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the players are fine. raiders tend to define "detrimental" as stuff that never causes a wipe and only slows things down moderately. The thing where its an issue is genuinely hard content, and the mistakes are expected. People expect everything to go incredibly smoothly, with little to no failure. Compared to other games, "detrimental" doesn't mean much.

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Originally Posted by JohnSeal

Also I say I got bored of Dpsing because ppl expect you to have purple/orange logs or they treat you shit, I prefer bard that works on. A priority system and each run is different and you enjoy see your stuff proc. still don’t get how is fun to play if you strictly copy what other tells you to do like a puppet? it’s not your achievement. I personally play only with classes I can have fun with and for gears not logs but if I fancy to play a new class I don’t want to be discriminated because I can’t reach 6K! But if I can reach the minimum DPS required I am not damaging anyone in a weekly clear.

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I'm sorry but with that kind of mentality, you've got no business even LOOKING at a raid of ANY kind. People participate in Savage, UCoB, and UWU to be challenged and rewarded for it. The more difficult the challenge, the more practice it requires. Thus, many people choose to turn to online resources to fine tune their rotations, and parsers to optimize their numbers. They enjoy the challenge and actively better themselves to overcome it. 22 pages of empty headed self-entitled blither and you still can't comprehend something so simple.

But you? Content with performing the bare minimum DPS to clear. Can't be bothered to play decently because you don't seem to agree with how the rotations designed by SE are laid out. You sound like the sort of person that wants to be rewarded just for (barely) participating in the same measure as those that actually tried and gave a damn. Honestly, I would count myself unfortunate to encounter you in WANDERER'S PALACE, let alone anything resembling a raid.

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Originally Posted by RiyahArp

the players are fine. raiders tend to define "detrimental" as stuff that never causes a wipe and only slows things down moderately. The thing where its an issue is genuinely hard content, and the mistakes are expected.

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Nooo, don't you start too. You are on a good roll right now. Don't go back to the darkside, Riyah.

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Originally Posted by SaitoHikari

I still don't get this thread. There's a pretty big disconnect between 'not using your skills/using your skills incorrectly' and 'parsers'. Because people who want a high parse will naturally want to do everything correctly anyway. :/

I kind of wonder if OP lost a bet/ran into someone that outright lied about what parsers actually do and asked them to start a crusade on the forums, because said someone had already been banned from here prior.



I actually am in agreement with this. I haven't seen another community where people will actively defend someone intentionally playing in a way detrimental to the rest of the party. Of course, there does exist context where that is acceptable (early leveling dungeons and the player in question simply doesn't know), but by SB, you'd think people would have a clue.

Hell, there's probably a pretty big disconnect between the JP and the EN communities on that matter too. The JP players probably just look at us and think we're all idiots, and probably think the developers design content the way they do because they think we keep dropping the ball in more ways than one. Our playerbase as a whole hasn't exactly proven that we're actually ready for the changes that we so desperately crave.

(Also if you're reading this Hyo, I'd like to bring your attention back to the Bard thread in the DPS section and hear your two cents on what's there.)

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But nobody has ever asked for competence in leveling dungeons. Nobody is going into the first three dungeons and telling them to be the best players in the game. I just expect by the time you've gone through like 3000 quests to get from ARR to SB EXR that you know which end of the sword goes into the bad guy or have asked for advice or looked up a guide. (Nobody asks for help or looks for a guide because the community promotes "PLAY YOUR OWN WAY" in an entirely objective game where there is a guaranteed best way to play your job.)

To which I must ask, people have to go through 1-70 or 60-70 if they use a skip. Are dungeons like Bardam's Mettle and Doma Castle not more difficult than EXR? Most people I talk to think so and if that is -leveling content- then I don't know why I can't expect people to know their rotation and cooldowns to be able to make those dungeons smooth, they've had several hours of exposure to their job at high level to understand their kit or ask for help or look it up, it's just plain disrespectful to other players to be so lazy.

NA/EU is more concerned with character creation than fixing the game's glaring gameplay flaws, so that should say enough about EN vs JP.

Omg you ppl are unbelievable! You take a sentence and use it against others...

I never said I want to create my own rotations and also said that if you can’t have a good DPS YOU DON’T JOIN!!

Following someone theory, only player that spend hours to create rotations are 1st class player and nobody else. All other are just following.

Still there is no difference AT ALL if someone deal 5 or 6k for the outcome of the party !! For BIS the same concept guys, with BIS you can reach 100% but if you don’t but are competent you can still deal a huge DPS abs carry your team, the player matter more than the gear!!

My point is how greedibg for a better log make ppl being selfish and damage other in the group, if you don’t care about logs but okay fir fun and achievements you don’t want other to ruin your fun or setting you back for their personal gain.