SMN - Why it is not a very interesting job and not a good upgrade from ACN

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Originally Posted by Akiza

The other Summoner Tristen Nightflicker killed his own brother after Ifrit tempered him thus driving him insane. So Tristan aka The Dark Summoner made a deal with the Ascians to gain more power so he could get revenge on Ifrit as well as all other primals by destroying the beasts tribes now if you paid attention to the story then you'd realize that it was the Dark Summoner's drive for revenge and lust for power that allowed him to cross any morale boundary which is what corrupted. Unless we become corrupt and go to the dark side story wise giving the Summoner more of the primal's power to control a more powerful egi version of the primal wouldn't do anything.

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Lore + balance issue. How can you not see this ?

Akiza will only see posts that agree, hence why we need a petition to remove their posting rights...

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Originally Posted by Eardstapa

Akiza will only see posts that agree, hence why we need a petition to remove their posting rights...

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I aldeady reported his account for everything that could remotely serve to get his useless posts out of this thread but that didn't get anywhere as he's still trolling, and worse, people get this yet keep replying...

Just ignore them.

Plenty of people are upset with the Egis and think they should be completely overhauled people even spammed the E3 2014 live stream on youtube that the Egis sucked and need to be replaced with a proper pet. Maybe Square Enix will read my posts and give Summoner's the ability to summon the Primals when the level cap is raised to 75 or at the very least give us a pet that resembles a smaller version of the Primals.

http://i.imgur.com/d0Fqk7p.jpg el oh el

Akiza, sweetie, just because you say that there are plenty of people that think the Egis suck doesn't make it true. You offer no proof, no shred of evidence that there are more than a scant handful of people that think like you. The majority of Summoners, vocal or anonymous, enjoy the Summoner, they enjoy having a role to play, they enjoy having abilities that complement having Summons out. Yes, having DOTs actually synergizes fabulously with your pet. You get a handful of pet actions that you can control, and several buffs for your pet as well. And, even better, you have a pet that doesn't hog the screen. The lore supports Egis, the lore supports Arcanists and their becoming of summoners, the only thing the lore doesn't support is your arguments.

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Originally Posted by Wolf_Shay

Akiza, sweetie, just because you say that there are plenty of people that think the Egis suck doesn't make it true. You offer no proof, no shred of evidence that there are more than a scant handful of people that think like you. The majority of Summoners, vocal or anonymous, enjoy the Summoner, they enjoy having a role to play, they enjoy having abilities that complement having Summons out. Yes, having DOTs actually synergizes fabulously with your pet. You get a handful of pet actions that you can control, and several buffs for your pet as well. And, even better, you have a pet that doesn't hog the screen. The lore supports Egis, the lore supports Arcanists and their becoming of summoners, the only thing the lore doesn't support is your arguments.

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I like your style.

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Originally Posted by Rydia13

http://i.imgur.com/d0Fqk7p.jpg el oh el

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Diffrent games, different lore, different gameplay, different mechanics, etc

Every class/job takes its source material from classic Final Fantasy titles while the Summoner is the odd one out and completely ignores its own source material. As a Final Fantasy Summoner its fails on the gameplay, mechanics and visual levels and instead it is a generic MMORPG Necromancer. Why does the Summoner gameplay revolve primarily around stacking dots? Why does the Summoner play like a generic Necromancer? Why does the Summoner have a gimpy little pet? Why is the Summoner gimped to the point where it completely ignores it's own source material and is no longer a Final Fantasy Summoner?

What Square Enix did to the Summoner would be the equivalent of making a genric Sorcerer that just uses 3 moves shoot fireball, blizzard and thunder with no aoe burst damage and call it a Black Mage.

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Originally Posted by Akiza

Ignorant stuff

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Rydia, from FFIV, the character who you could argue is the staple Summoner in the Final Fantasy series, learns Black and White magic but isn't the best at either. Also, her summons in battle are not permanent, they come, do their stuff then leave.

So do you really want a caster that is the worst at healing and dealing magic damage and have a burst button every few minutes ? Don't you even see how ridiculously stupid that is ?

Garnet and Eiko from Final Fantasy IX are from the summoner tribe but are also healers and totally not offensive so might as well give a DPS button to WHM and call it a FFIX summoner.

FFX, same concept at IX.

Your lack of knowledge isn't only in this game apparetnly. You don't even grasp the concept of Summoner in the Final Fantasy series, this game included.

http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__...e-go-again.jpg

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Originally Posted by Dwill

Rydia, from FFIV, the character who you could argue is the staple Summoner in the Final Fantasy series, learns Black and White magic but isn't the best at either. Also, her summons in battle are not permanent, they come, do their stuff then leave.

So do you really want a caster that is the worst at healing and dealing magic damage and have a burst button every few minutes ? Don't you even see how ridiculously stupid that is ?

Garnet and Eiko from Final Fantasy IX are from the summoner tribe but are also healers and totally not offensive so might as well give a DPS button to WHM and call it a FFIX summoner.

FFX, same concept at IX.

Your lack of knowledge isn't only in this game apparetnly. You don't even grasp the concept of Summoner in the Final Fantasy series, this game included.

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Single player rpg <> Mmorpg

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Originally Posted by Warlyx

Single player rpg <> Mmorpg

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Tell that to person I was quoting, it seems she's the one not grasping that concept.

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Originally Posted by Rydia13

http://i.imgur.com/d0Fqk7p.jpg el oh el

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They forgot FFXII :(

The Summoner in this game is a poor man version of the WoW Warlock and Aion Spririt Master. The Warlock is a damage over time class that can summon minions as well choose to maximize ther effects of dot and curses, maximize the utility of their pet or focus on maximizing their direct damage and bursts damage. The Aion Spirit Master is a dot class with their main weapon being their summons and each summon give them control over a specific element. When Aion Spirit Masters gain a summon it looks alot like the Egis but the difference is they become more intimidating and detailed as the player levels up while the Egis still look like they can be punted and bursts into aether even at lvl 50.

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The Aion Spirit Master is a dot class with their main weapon being their summons and each summon give them control over a specific element.

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I play Aion and this is a lie. Their main weapon is the fact that their DoTs do a ridiculous amount of damage. Your credibility is already bad but since I actually have a fair amount of knowledge in this specific claim I'll educate anyone who doesn't know much.

Spiritmaster can summon a variety of pets like Summoner that have differing usages.

Fire Spirit, Water Spirit, Earth Spirit, Wind Spirit, Magma, Tempest

Fire Spirit is akin to Ifrit, one of the strongest physical attackers. Used when bosses don't have many aoes.

Water Spirit is akin to Garuda. It's ranged and has poor HP. It's rarely used because most bosses are melee or have really powerful AoEs that simply crush this spirit.

Earth Spirit is like Titan. It's almost never used in PvE because it has terrible attack and if your tank is dead, this spirit won't hold aggro for long. It has far better usage in PvP because of a skill called Spirit Substitution.

Wind Spirit is like carbunkle. Speedy pet that is one of the weakest. It used to be used a lot before all other pets could run at the same speed. Now it might sometimes be used for the Stun skill it has (but often not).

Magma Spirit is a fusion of Fire and Earth spirit. It only lasts for 20 minutes and has a 1 hour cooldown. It's probably the best spirit you can summon because of the damage it can inflict. However, it's race restricted to the Asmodian race (the black winged ones).

Tempest Spirit is a fusion of Water and Wind spirit. Same duration, cooldown as Tempst but viewed as a weak pet just because Water and Wind suck. Unfortunately, this pet isn't ranged so it's melee as well. But it looks nice.

However, this is all a load of bollocks because SM's damage is mostly from their DoTs. They have two choices for damage, the DoT heavy tree (common) and pet support tree (uncommon). It's been proven time and time again that the pet tree is trash and if you use it, you're a moron so DoT tree has always been used. It's not because they don't like pets, it's because it's an explicit DPS loss along with utility loss.

So before you try and spout some bull about Spiritmaster mostly focusing on pets, it would do you some good to fact check it first.

To recap;
PvE - Magma/Tempest if off CD, otherwise use Fire
PvP - Earth

SMN uses 1 pet, SM uses 2. You can also easily get away with not using your pet at all and still do amazing damage.

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Originally Posted by Akiza

The Summoner in this game is a poor man version of the WoW Warlock and Aion Spririt Master. The Warlock is a damage over time class that can summon minions as well choose to maximize ther effects of dot and curses, maximize the utility of their pet or focus on maximizing their direct damage and bursts damage. The Aion Spirit Master is a dot class with their main weapon being their summons and each summon give them control over a specific element. When Aion Spirit Masters gain a summon it looks alot like the Egis but the difference is they become more intimidating and detailed as the player levels up while the Egis still look like they can be punted and bursts into aether even at lvl 50.

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Akiza Izinski: the Black Rose Troll

Akiza. Play another class. Or another game.

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Originally Posted by Akiza

The other Summoner Tristen Nightflicker killed his own brother after Ifrit tempered him thus driving him insane. So Tristan aka The Dark Summoner made a deal with the Ascians to gain more power so he could get revenge on Ifrit as well as all other primals by destroying the beasts tribes now if you paid attention to the story then you'd realize that it was the Dark Summoner's drive for revenge and lust for power that allowed him to cross any morale boundary which is what corrupted. Unless we become corrupt and go to the dark side story wise giving the Summoner more of the primal's power to control a more powerful egi version of the primal wouldn't do anything.

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absolute power corrupts absolutely.

I've said it before in other threads, make our LB summon either a random primal, or the one were using currently to unleash their signature attack. That alone would go a long way in making SMN feel more like SMN from the FF series. I'm quite ok with the design of SMN in this game, it's not ideal but the LB idea will help a lot.

The only thing that sucks is how shitty the Egis look lol Their size isn't the issue so much as is their aesthetics...

I understand SMN isn't meant to be the same in every game, even if it is my favorite job, and I appreciate the diversity cuz the way SMN is played in the single player series doesn't fit well into an MMO playstyle.

I think it'd be fun to stand there for 30 seconds casting a summon to do a single attack then getting interrupted on the 29th second.

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Originally Posted by Kaze3434

absolute power corrupts absolutely.

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That quote doesn't fit since Tristen was corrupt long before he obtained his power

After finally coming back to the game and picking up my SMN again. I honestly don't see nothing wrong with the SMN besides the design of the egi (which I hope they change) there's really nothing wrong with it. Oh i actually have a problem a small one. THE DESIGN OF THE EGI, the worst part of the SMN class. Maybe if they change the design of the egi to look more godlike I wouldn't be the only SMN in Labyrinth of the Ancients.

Lore-wise Tristen was being given summoning power beyond his means to handle at the time. There's no reason not to think we won't be given that power as we get stronger and are able to handle it without being corrupted by it.

Ergo, higher levels.

If Square Enix changed the Egis appearance and made them resemble the primals and the size of the tallest male Roegadyn they would be go from meh to yeah. Also they should add 4 additional abilities to the Egis when the lvl cap is raised.

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Originally Posted by Jamez82

Lore-wise Tristen was being given summoning power beyond his means to handle at the time. There's no reason not to think we won't be given that power as we get stronger and are able to handle it without being corrupted by it.

Ergo, higher levels.

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According to the records of the Immortal Flames which was revealed by Y'shtola Lore wise after Tristan killed his brother he went insane then made a deal with the Ascians to gain more Summoning power so he was corrupted long before he got his increased summoning power. All his increased summoning power did was give him the ability to act upon his insanity. Giving a corrupt person power isn't going to suddenly change them into a saint once they gain power it'll just give them the ability to act on their corruption while giving a person power in general will just test their character.

"Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power"
Abraham Lincoln
Power itself doesn't corrupt it merely unmask a persons true nature.

I get how summoning the former Primals themselves would kill FF XIV's lore, but I do think a slight upgrade will be welcomed.

Ifrit egi on SMN's concept art looks way better than what we actually have. Maybe SE can give, based on main storyline a future upgrade to main char (like a blessing from Hydaelyn) without actually affecting the player's stats, etc at all.. just enabling for all classes/jobs the access to new skills. That would make it possible + not drift away from devs original goal, I guess?

In SMN's case, a reskin to be applied on EGI's once that's done, keeping them small but with better effects around their body and something that'll resemble a bit more the primals (especially Garuda, at least Ifrit and Titan you can relate to the former primals, but Garuda is like a deformed bird >.< you can't even tell it's female!).

Now if for programming reasons the game wouldn't allow that, just make like Aion summons then, you can choose to use the older version or the new version (which in the system would be considered a new pet, but not in the lore).

So you want mini Primals as the Summoner's pet.

That can't be changed bc of the lore, they'd have to totally change the SMN quest line if were to not use egi and I don't think they will do that after years of development. xD Plus there are lots of people that like and dislike the SMN system, if a really large majority disliked, then "maybe" some things were to be changed..but I don't think it's the case.

So in my view, the best that can be done is enhancing what we got. It can make those that like it, enjoy it even further and those that are like "Meh" goes to "Not bad" or "Not that bad". :p

Yes this was a huge fail for SE imo. Summoners dont feel like Summoners. It feels more like a Red Mage/ Necromancer hybrid with a genie pet.

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Originally Posted by Alazier

Yes this was a huge fail for SE imo. Summoners dont feel like Summoners. It feels more like a Red Mage/ Necromancer hybrid with a genie pet.

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You mean it was a huge fail for a vocal minority ? The majority of the people who play summoners are entirely fine with how it works.

How hard is it to grasp that the concept of a summoner that people see in a single player game just can't be applied in an MMORPG ?

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Originally Posted by Dwill

You mean it was a huge fail for a vocal minority ? The majority of the people who play summoners are entirely fine with how it works.

How hard is it to grasp that the concept of a summoner that people see in a single player game just can't be applied in an MMORPG ?

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To be fair, not everyone wants what was in the single player games, nor do they necessarily want what was in Final Fantasy 11 (because that's what everyone immediately assumes).

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Originally Posted by Dwill

You mean it was a huge fail for a vocal minority ? The majority of the people who play summoners are entirely fine with how it works.

How hard is it to grasp that the concept of a summoner that people see in a single player game just can't be applied in an MMORPG ?

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Vocal minority you mean silent majority because a majority of people don't think the Summoner feels like a Summoner they either think it plays like a WOW Warlock, a WOW hunter with magic attacks or a Red Mage/Necromancer hybrid with a pet not a Summoner.
Final Fantasy XII already showed that summons can be smaller and effective with Espers so why didn't Square Enix just scale the Primals down to the size of the tallest male Roegadyn instead of creating a whole new design for the Summoner's Pet.

I don't think he meant silent majority. I think he meant exactly what he said.

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Originally Posted by Akiza

Vocal minority you mean silent majority because a majority of people don't think the Summoner feels like a Summoner they either think it plays like a WOW Warlock, a WOW hunter with magic attacks or a Red Mage/Necromancer hybrid with a pet not a Summoner.

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And how would you know how the MAJORITY, which means 51%+ of the summoner playbase think like you ? You can barely get 2-3 players to think like you on this forum which is <10% of the actual player base (being extremely generous, it's probably much lower) who posts.

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Originally Posted by Exstal

I don't think he meant silent majority. I think he meant exactly what he said.

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Pretty much.

SE please close this thread.

PLEASE PLEASE CLOSE THIS THREAD

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Originally Posted by Dwill

And how would you know how the MAJORITY, which means 51%+ of the summoner playbase think like you ? You can barely get 2-3 players to think like you on this forum which is <10% of the actual player base (being extremely generous, it's probably much lower) who posts.



Pretty much.

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Do you have stats to back up your claim or a in game poll that suggest players are fine with the Summoner or are just waiting for square to make changes to the pet. The majority of players don't post in forums and I'm sure In have more than 3 people that agree with me since people make new forums about changing the Summoner every other week. There is a reason Black Mages outnumber Summoners 6:1 and it has nothing to do with damage it has to do with the pet design and appearance.

I'll bite.. I'm one of those people that aren't especially happy with the design choices they've made with SMN so far to be honest.

That isn't to say it's a broken or non-functional job because mechanically it works just fine, however to me personally it doesn't really feel like a Summoner. It does feel very much like Affliction Warlock from WoW which is kind of Ironic because i feel Demonology Warlock would have actually translated better to SMN in this game, Metamorphosis -> Esper form etc.

Something like this but obviously based on current Egi: http://www.wowwiki.com/Metamorphosis

See also: http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/E..._Fantasy_VI%29

And: http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Terra_Branford

As for changes / additions / anything else that isn't really my place to say as it is SMN is a great DoT DPS class just one that doesn't bring to mind the images of the traditional Final Fantasy summoner.

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Originally Posted by Akiza

Do you have stats to back up your claim or a in game poll that suggest players are fine with the Summoner or are just waiting for square to make changes to the pet. The majority of players don't post in forums and I'm sure In have more than 3 people that agree with me since people make new forums about changing the Summoner every other week. There is a reason Black Mages outnumber Summoners 6:1 and it has nothing to do with damage it has to do with the pet design and appearance.

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Whoa. Hold the phone here. Darlin, you've been trying to put a star peg that you call a square peg in a round hole because you think it would be prettier and should fit, but refuse to show us the board or the peg you're trying to fit, swearing up and down that it would fit. We've demanded on multiple occasions that you show us your statistics, but you've adamantly refused at every turn. So either show your hand or leave the table, because I'm calling your bluff here.