Unofficial Census 2016 for FFXIV

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Originally Posted by Whocareswhatmynameis

Chances are the next mount they put in the gold saucer for 1M, you wouldn't want to actually participate in getting it. That's the problem people are having.

Anyone that farmed red scrips in patches 3.0 - 3.3 probably know this feeling very well. When the gear they earned was given away for blue scrips. You start to ask yourself 2 questions... why did i bother doing that? and why would i want to do it again?

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Something becoming easier later on does not diminish the value of an achievement done before that point.

Like beating second coil savage before 3.0 or clearing gordias before 3.2. I don't suddenly feel bad when people get to roll into a4s and steamroll it with echo. Instead, I think something like "Thank heavens, nobody should have to suffer like we did." I'll feel the same way when they nerf Midas and introduce echo for it, as well.

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Originally Posted by MihaelB

I don't understand either, especially with that example. I invested 50mil into red scrip gear at the time when it was relevant to produce goods worth 150mil in profits in return.
I upgrade my gear now to do content relevant now. I understand it won't be relevant in maybe even a week because possibly they'll allow something in the game that completely wrecks my current gear but at least I'm enjoying it now.

If I just wanted to be 'efficient' with no satisfaction in doing content in relevance, I would quit a year and do 1 minute runs of everything but personally for me, there's no enjoyment in that.

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If that works for you great.

For a lot of people though, they probably rather just play a different game then participate in endgame that is only relevent for the current patch that they are on. It undermines the point in having endgame in the first place. Which is to keep people playing after they finish the story.

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Originally Posted by Instrumentality

Instead, I think something like "Thank heavens, nobody should have to suffer like we did." I'll feel the same way when they nerf Midas and introduce echo for it, as well.

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This, too. I've had several moments in my MMOing history where I've finished a god awful grind, hit the forums and suggested reducing it just because I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy. lol

Nerfs don't bother me personally. I grind out relic steps as they're released because they're satisfying to complete even though I know they'll be easier later.

Nerfs may discourage some from participating in current endgame but they also get people into content that they wouldn't have bothered with at all otherwise. Mount farming always sees a resurgence in Party Finder after a drop rate boost. I know I never would have bothered with ponies or birds at their original rates.

I personally find everything besides raiding to be super boringly easily. And I find raiding not worth the hours as the rewards are just my own sense of accomplishment that is in the hands of 7 other people to complete. And the reward is so short term and minor all that trouble to me isn't worth it.

I like horizontal progression. Glamour is horizontal progression in this game which is why I really do feel like it's end game. Glamour and leveling your jobs are the only real lasting things in the game.

Want my participation in raiding? Make exclusive glamour. But hey I'm just one person.

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Originally Posted by Sanghelios

Thats well spoken. Actually same for ponys. I did farm them when drop rates were low, just to see them raining down from heaven a while after. Now in this patch circle, i did only farm one bird and cba to farm all the others again, because i know its super pointless as square will do the same as they did with pony droprates. Same goes for literally every other content, let it be scripts or whatever. I like this game, but those things are really annoying after you did it once and i can see myself leaving this game one day just because of those points.

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That's exactly my point and I don't understand how some people think it's allright. We used to have pony farms all the time during 2.0 in my FC, large one. Now we didn't farm any bird once since 3.0 release, because there is literally 1 person who asks for farm, other 200-300 people say "Just wait for 4.0 and get all birds in a few days", me including. How is this game design can be close to being "allright"?

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Originally Posted by Whocareswhatmynameis

For most people it makes them not want to bother if in 2 patches the thing they spent a bunch of time on is just given away in a cash shop or w/e. If your the one that spent 1M MGP on a fenrir mount, then the devs turn around 2 months later and lower the cost to 100K, you might feel a bit differently. Chances are the next mount they put in the gold saucer for 1M, you wouldn't want to actually participate in getting it. That's the problem people are having.

Anyone that farmed red scrips in patches 3.0 - 3.3 probably know this feeling very well. When the gear they earned was given away for blue scrips. You start to ask yourself 2 questions... why did i bother doing that? and why would i want to do it again?

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You did it for the gil. you did it to gather those materials to either sell or make your own 220 crafted gear for free and get ahead of everyone who had to relie on midas normal with their weekly loot lockout rng drops. You did it so when they did make that stuff blue scripts you were already in a position to make you're new ironworks stuff again for free and to make money off the lazy people.

Them getting it later does not effect you in anyway you had it when it was still useful in the current tier. they get it when its catch up gear while your preparing to make a lot more money and get gear to get you ahead of the game in the next raid tier.

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Originally Posted by Vantol

In this context you are supposed to get all items in game the instant you log in, because they are "easy to produce". Anyway, the point is, everything in this game gets nerfed because echo, unsync, ilvl. Why should I work hard and play every day, when I can just pay 1 month per year and accomplish same things that other person that was in game 5 hour/day every day for past year? That's the main reason ppl stop playing. Not because they don't like the game, but because they can leave game for months and lose nothing.

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Exactly, and until this problem is fixed, this game will not retain players at the end game. The funny thing is, the people defending the practice here are hurting the game. What do you think works better for the dev team? Keeping players subbed for several month spans or just a handful of months throughout the year.

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Originally Posted by Whocareswhatmynameis

If that works for you great.

For a lot of people though, they probably rather just play a different game then participate in endgame that is only relevent for the current patch that they are on. It undermines the point in having endgame in the first place. Which is to keep people playing after they finish the story.

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This is pretty much it right here. This is the biggest problem with this game.

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Originally Posted by thegreatonemal

You did it for the gil. you did it to gather those materials to either sell or make your own 220 crafted gear for free and get ahead of everyone who had to relie on midas normal with their weekly loot lockout rng drops. You did it so when they did make that stuff blue scripts you were already in a position to make you're new ironworks stuff again for free and to make money off the lazy people.

Them getting it later does not effect you in anyway you had it when it was still useful in the current tier. they get it when its catch up gear while your preparing to make a lot more money and get gear to get you ahead of the game in the next raid tier.

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While the red/blue scrips is not the best example. you know what he/she is talking about. It happens in every other facet of the game, such as the coffin lid. The coffin lid is a perfect example of how this game goes from having something super rare that turns into worthless junk.

You might be ok with your efforts being undermined in every aspect of the game, but most people are not and that's why this game can't retain people.

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Originally Posted by Critical-Limit

I personally find everything besides raiding to be super boringly easily. And I find raiding not worth the hours as the rewards are just my own sense of accomplishment that is in the hands of 7 other people to complete. And the reward is so short term and minor all that trouble to me isn't worth it.

I like horizontal progression. Glamour is horizontal progression in this game which is why I really do feel like it's end game. Glamour and leveling your jobs are the only real lasting things in the game.

Want my participation in raiding? Make exclusive glamour. But hey I'm just one person.

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This is a perfect example on why the rewards in raiding just don't cut it. If Savage is going to continue to exist, it should be rewarded like mythic in wow.

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Originally Posted by Sanghelios

Thats well spoken. Actually same for ponys. I did farm them when drop rates were low, just to see them raining down from heaven a while after. Now in this patch circle, i did only farm one bird and cba to farm all the others again, because i know its super pointless as square will do the same as they did with pony droprates. Same goes for literally every other content, let it be scripts or whatever. I like this game, but those things are really annoying after you did it once and i can see myself leaving this game one day just because of those points.

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This is a great example of why there is no point into grinding birds now before 4.0. Why grind out a bird at a 5% drop rate when the fight takes six mins when you can wait until 4.0 and you can grind out birds at a 15% drop rate for fights that will only then take 3 mins. The reward structure in this game is a joke and discourages players from being active subscribers.

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Originally Posted by Instrumentality

Something becoming easier later on does not diminish the value of an achievement done before that point.

Like beating second coil savage before 3.0 or clearing gordias before 3.2. I don't suddenly feel bad when people get to roll into a4s and steamroll it with echo. Instead, I think something like "Thank heavens, nobody should have to suffer like we did." I'll feel the same way when they nerf Midas and introduce echo for it, as well.

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We are not just talking about raid stuff here. Everyone anticipates raids becoming easier either by direct or indirect nerfs. Items like primal birds, coffin lid, thavnarian set, minions, etc, should remain rare for ever to give players long term goals to work on. It's just like fenrir and the minicactpot, it gives people a reason to log in every day.

If you anticipate that every grind associated with a reward will be nerfed into the ground, you can literally wait until the end of the expansion to sweep up all the rewards for a fraction of the effort. This type of problem stretches across the entire game, nothing is worth doing while it's current.

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Originally Posted by zosia

You might be ok with your efforts being underminded in every aspect of the game, but most people are not and that's why this game can't retain people.

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How are your efforts undermined? Was the reward removed from your inventory? Did they somehow stifle the fun you had attaining the reward?

I seriously cannot understand this. If I attain a reward, how is that reward worth more if another player cannot attain it? Whether they have it or not, my reward is my own. If no one else ever gets it, I have that reward. if everyone else gets it, I have that reward.

Shy of them literally taking it from me, which I would indeed rage over, they have in no way, shape or form affected me by allowing other players to attain said reward with a different level of effort.

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Originally Posted by Tolmos

How are your efforts undermined? Was the reward removed from your inventory? Did they somehow stifle the fun you had attaining the reward?I seriously cannot understand this. If I attain a reward, how is that reward worth more if another player cannot attain it? Whether they have it or not, my reward is my own. If no one else ever gets it, I have that reward. if everyone else gets it, I have that reward.

Shy of them literally taking it from me, which I would indeed rage over, they have in no way, shape or form affected me by allowing other players to attain said reward with a different level of effort.

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The coffin lid is a perfect example, I paid 15 mil for one back in January, if I had known to wait two months so I could buy one for 50k I would have. How am I supposed to feel when a game devalues my coffin lid by 14,950,000 gil?

I might have my coffin, but I am not getting my 15 mil back. That time was wasted. Literally wasted. Should the coffin lid drop rate been buffed? Yes. Should it drop every single run in VA? NO NO NO NO NO. It's really not my problem anymore bub, this game has these issues and it will continue to bleed subs because nothing feels worthwhile. You guys can beat your chest like this is some childish position for us to hold, but you are only hurting your game.

People like rarity, people like to feel accomplished, and people like to stand out. These are pretty easy trends to see in MMO's. This game does not answer to any of those needs. No items are rare, there is little to no sense of accomplishment in this game, and since everyone can have everything, no one stands out.

I am sorry that individualism is a hard pill to swallow, but I don't want to have the same stuff as the next guy. It makes the game compelling when I can envy others and be the evny of others. It motivates people to stay subbed and have long term goals, something this game lacks.