What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

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Originally Posted by Britha

Can't get that lucky.
They are still all over seething and patting each other on the back agreeing with their friends' posts as usual.

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How dare people with similar opinions on the story agree with each other!
I don't know what else you expected, the explicit goal of that discord was explained each time the link was shared.

Oh, you guys will love this particular little tidbit of the French localisation:

Instead of commenting on Athena's ambition with "And you would destroy the lives already upon it!", Erichthonios says "You would destroy current mankind to replace it with your 'new species'!? This is madness, that's… genocide!".

Interesting phrasing, isn't it? It's like you could literally just transpose this, word for word, particularly the specification of current mankind (because there is a special place in the sea of stars for people who just lump the Ancients and the Sundered under one big "mankind, unspecified"), to what anyone at all SHOULD have said to Venat.

Hey… she does have exactly the same eye color after all, doesn't she? Mommy…

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Originally Posted by Kazhar

How dare people with similar opinions on the story agree with each other!
I don't know what else you expected, the explicit goal of that discord was explained each time the link was shared.

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jeez how DARE I like posts I agree with… That's like. bRigADiNg!!!!!!

Not to mention, personally I have indeed bothered to resub only to see Pandaemonium to its end because it's the last thing I cared about (as I flat out said in my very first post on this thread a year and some months ago). But I know a lot of people just plain didn't because they've moved on to other games. I didn't manage to motivate my friends to run Pandaemonium with me this week…

And as this forum requires not just a subscription but active playtime (seriously this is silly), there is a high chance the number of likes you see under posts are not coming from the evil cabal of mean and nasty trancers that live in your mind, but from… unassociated people just reading the thread. Because ultimately people are going to be drawn to discussion whose premise is of interest to them. And then there are the weirdos who are here solely to seethe for whatever reason. I'd get a better hobby if I were you guys… I've heard a content patch just dropped, surely they would be busy playing all that content of a game they love, with a story that surely is not quite lackluster.

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Originally Posted by Teraq

Oh, you guys will love this particular little tidbit of the French localisation:

Instead of commenting on Athena's ambition with "And you would destroy the lives already upon it!", Erichthonios says "You would destroy current mankind to replace it with your 'new species'!? This is madness, that's… genocide!".

It's like you could literally just transpose this, word for word, particularly the specification of current mankind (because there is a special place in the sea of stars for people who just lump the Ancients and the Sundered under one big "mankind, unspecified"), to what anyone at all SHOULD have said to Venat.

Hey… she does have exactly the same eye color after all, doesn't she?




jeez how DARE I like posts I agree with… That's like. bRigADiNg!!!!!!

Not to mention, personally I have indeed bothered to resub only to see Pandaemonium to its end because it's the last thing I cared about (as I flat out said in my very first post on this thread a year and some months ago). But I know a lot of people just plain didn't because they've moved on to other games.

And as this forum requires not just a subscription but active playtime (seriously this is silly), there is a high chance the number of likes you see under posts are not coming from the evil cabal of mean and nasty trances that live in your mind, but from… unassociated people just reading the thread. Because ultimately people are going to be drawn to discussion whose premise is of interest to them. And then there are the weirdos who are here solely to seethe for whatever reason. I'd get a better hobby if I were you. I've heard a content patch just dropped, surely they would be busy playing all that content of a game they love, with a story that surely is not quite lackluster.

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uh oh, sounds like someone has a case of the Mondays!!

Here, for you:

https://c.tenor.com/TYXFOBMebN4AAAAd/venat-ffxiv.gif

I mean I found myself largely agreeing with the sentiment of the thread myself but I see no reason to join stuff over it as I already have friends to rant to about it that at least will make doing the MSQ fun. We are playing the MSQ later this week and having a "Who can ruin the most cutscenes in their atrocious outfits" contest as well the story will at least be funny then. I am hoping King Slime Hat pulls out a victory with the insane physics personally but one of my friends has threatened a mismatched clown outfit.

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Originally Posted by Boblawblah

uh oh, sounds like someone has a case of the Mondays!!

Here, for you:

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Thanks, mom! And no, this one Monday was in fact a holiday – the last of the May holidays, RIP. Imagine how trancing I am on a regular terrible Monday!

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Originally Posted by Xeronia

I mean I found myself largely agreeing with the sentiment of the thread myself but I see no reason to join stuff over it as I already have friends to rant to about it that at least will make doing the MSQ fun. We are playing the MSQ later this week and having a "Who can ruin the most cutscenes in their atrocious outfits" contest as well the story will at least be funny then. I am hoping King Slime Hat pulls out a victory with the insane physics personally but one of my friends has threatened a mismatched clown outfit.

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This is the correct way to enjoy the MSQ.

And yeah. Personally I am lucky that my RL friends also hated the 6.0 MSQ as much as I did, so I could freely unload everything I wanted to say pretty early on. I can't imagine how awful it would have felt not to have that.

Ultimately we are just former fans grieving a story we used to love and discussing the myriad ways it went wrong. There is no conspiracy here or drafting innocents into our shadow wizard money gang (or forcing people to sacrifice themselves to our dark lord, even!). Join if you feel like it, or don't. I did because I do love beating a dead horse myself!

I've been reading more options on the raid series and I guess I just must have slept on some aspects, didn't pay attention to them, or just missed some stuff. All I really saw was just characters doing stuff, Elidbus's warning at the end. As well as the complete dancing around the very obvious elephant in the room that is Venat/the sundering while simultaneously having the very obvious Athena = Venat. Ultimately, Yoshida is the deciding factor for these stories and he's pretty adamant on ancients = scary, and for whatever garbage reason you want to implement for them needing to die. So did it just fly over his head?


I guess just grasping for any kind of positives at this point and when the positives are areas where it "could have been worse" then I'm just trying to find a reason to care about the story anymore.

I haven't done the MSQ because I forgot. A friend is coming back from vacation so I might just end up skipping it to unlock the dungeon and trial quickly, so is the unending journey good enough for it? Is there anything specific that's outside of cut scenes that I might need to know? Don't actually answer, this is just rhetorical. My patience and ability to pay attention to the raid was already limited, so I might just be done writing on anything story wise until the next expansion. So, yeah. I think I'm going to get the story through secondary sources now. I think I'll like it better that way. I'm just done being irritated over a stupid video game story that I spent almost 10 years with. I guess I'll join the discord or something if I feel I need to make a statement. I think I'm going to start drawing at work again instead of reading the forums. I just don't really have the willpower anymore to pay attention to the story enough to make an argument.

https://i.imgflip.com/7nj20m.jpg

Seriously, just eat it already, it's getting really stale.

I don't know if you realize, but you seem to be believing a slur-ladden anonymous 4chan post made by a person (with an anime girl profile pic, no less!) who was on the server for all of a single week in february. This person, for whatever reason, had more of a grudge than actual information on us: hence, at least half of their ramblings are made up. The "head of discord" bit is, for example, completely wrong. That's like... literally not them. It is rather obvious they had no idea who is who, but they needed a story to post to satisfy their bizarre obsession with people who dislike their waifu Veness.

It is also very telling that reddit mods would choose to believe a literal 4chan troll with wrong information, and subsequently ban someone because they're "the head of the evil discord" (again, they're not, lol).

And yeah, we shared links on a subject relevant to our mutual interest, as literally everyone does. This resulted in reddit comments getting 3-5 upvotes at best, but because some psychopath on 4chan made it sound like we're some kind of dark shadowy army of 50-something people when in fact there are around 10 of us active at any time on the server, with a fraction of that even having reddit accounts and bothering to click on links, it becomes "Brigading". Absolutely incredible.

The fact is that this fandom has an awful toxicity problem, and this fabricated lunacy has resulted in some of us getting threats, because that is what losers on the internet do when you point them at a persona-non-grata.

Genuinely, do you realize how insane this all is? This is literally all because we're pushing back against the majority opinion along with their weird headcanon on the story of this game.

Touch grass, I beg you.

Oh, and come and say hello, why don't you?

Is this what it's like to have your whole personality be "mad at a video game"?

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Originally Posted by Teraq

I don't know if you realize, but you seem to be believing a slur-ladden anonymous 4chan post made by a person (with an anime girl profile pic, no less!) who was on the server for all of a single week in february. This person, for whatever reason, had more of a grudge than actual information on us: hence, at least half of their ramblings are made up. The "head of discord" bit is, for example, completely wrong. That's like... literally not them. It is rather obvious they had no idea who is who, but they needed a story to post to satisfy their bizarre obsession with people who dislike their waifu Veness.

It is also very telling that reddit mods would choose to believe a literal 4chan troll with wrong information, and subsequently ban someone because they're "the head of the evil discord" (again, they're not, lol).

And yeah, we shared links on a subject relevant to our mutual interest, as literally everyone does. This resulted in reddit comments getting 3-5 upvotes at best, but because some psychopath on 4chan made it sound like we're some kind of dark shadowy army of 50-something people when in fact there are around 10 of us active at any time on the server, with a fraction of that even having reddit accounts and bothering to click on links, it becomes "Brigading". Absolutely incredible.

The fact is that this fandom has an awful toxicity problem, and this fabricated lunacy has resulted in some of us getting threats, because that is what losers on the internet do when you point them at a persona-non-grata.

Genuinely, do you realize how insane this all is? This is literally all because we're pushing back against the majority opinion along with their weird headcanon on the story of this game.

Touch grass, I beg you.

Oh, and come and say hello, why don't you?

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You couldn't do a worse job at pleading your case. It's funny that you hide behind this sardonic "h-hehe we're that loathsome cabal your crystalmother warned us about :3" shtick while beseeching bystanders to not believe their lying eyes because that would be conspiratorial and stark raving mad, then turn around and say "Everything unpalatable shown about us is actually a complete conspiracy! All fabricated! I can tell from the pixels and the fact that my esteemed Shadow God personally Skype called me (he is really oldfashioned) to tell me that it was all a hoax!"

And why would I come to say hello? I've no stake in it. I've no intention to monitor or argue with you. I just think this concerted effort to astroturf a narrative is just kind of lame. Do with that what you will; I'll be out touching that grass you people proclaim the Convocation was planning to offer up to Zodiark in order to bring the souls of their brethren back.

https://i.imgur.com/wEYctko.gif

.......

Nope.

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Originally Posted by EliaStormblade

You couldn't do a worse job at pleading your case.

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You don't have to touch grass, if that's not your cup of tea. Conversely, you could go and talk to somebody; you know, the equivalent of one of those people that Venat was more than willing to throw into the metaphorical garbage can after spending five minutes in the company of a time travelling stranger barely distinguishable from one of their science experiments for the benefit of, in your proposed best case scenario, a newly-spawned race of sub-intelligent sea monkeys who could scarcely function on a basic human level.

But hey, if we're delving into real life comparisons, then I'm sure in the event of an apocalyptic scenario that cost you the majority of everyone you've ever loved and cared for and the very ability to survive on this planet, you would of course eschew any opportunity to save any of them to preserve the local wildlife and potentially a bunch of chimps, right?

I know several of you seem to think it's a real "gotcha" moment to walk into a thread that's been pretty firmly established as (reasonably) safe grounds to openly express your problems with Endwalker and continue to throw vitriol at people daring to do so, but you're not doing much for the "staying mad at a video game" persona you're trying to construct for them when your own raison d'etre seems to revolve around "staying mad" yourselves.

You know, sometimes I think, if we all met in person at a pub for drinks, we probably wouldn't hate each other. We all like video games, I generally like people that like video games. I probably wouldn't hate you guys. Titanmen, you and your 12 personalities too.

Just something to consider.

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Originally Posted by Lunaxia

You don't have to touch grass, if that's not your cup of tea. Conversely, you could go and talk to somebody; you know, the equivalent of one of those people that Venat was more than willing to throw into the metaphorical garbage can after spending five minutes in the company of a time travelling stranger barely distinguishable from one of their science experiments for the benefit of, in your proposed best case scenario, a newly-spawned race of sub-intelligent sea monkeys who could scarcely function on a basic human level.

But hey, if we're delving into real life comparisons, then I'm sure in the event of an apocalyptic scenario that cost you the majority of everyone you've ever loved and cared for and the very ability to survive on this planet, you would of course eschew any opportunity to save any of them to preserve the local wildlife and potentially a bunch of chimps, right?

I know several of you seem to think it's a real "gotcha" moment to walk into a thread that's been pretty firmly established as (reasonably) safe grounds to openly express your problems with Endwalker and continue to throw vitriol at people daring to do so, but you're not doing much for the "staying mad at a video game" persona you're trying to construct for them when your own raison d'etre seems to revolve around "staying mad" yourselves.

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I'm not sure unleashing an indignant meltdown with a few false equivalences thrown in the mix to "own" the person who is so totally livid for telling you goofballs off was such a winning move, but you went ahead and did it anyway. If nothing else (and there really is nothing else), I can respect the commitment.

Keep yourselves warm during these bone-chilling winter days by means of those false cope narratives and rewrites you love to mash together. I'll continue to offer the proverbial side-eye. All is in its rightful place.

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Originally Posted by Boblawblah

You know, sometimes I think, if we all met in person at a pub for drinks, we probably wouldn't hate each other. We all like video games, I generally like people that like video games. I probably wouldn't hate you guys. Titanmen, you and your 12 personalities too.

Just something to consider.

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Forget that, I would like to see a pay-per-view (is this still a thing?) hell in a cell cage match with everyone one in the forums and battle for which opinion is validated the most.


Now that is entertainment

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Originally Posted by EliaStormblade

I'm not sure unleashing an indignant meltdown with a few false equivalences thrown in the mix to "own" the person who is so totally livid for telling you goofballs off was such a winning move, but you went ahead and did it anyway. If nothing else (and there really is nothing else), I can respect the commitment.

Keep yourselves warm during these bone-chilling winter days by means of those false cope narratives and rewrites you love to mash together. I'll continue to offer the proverbial side-eye. All is in its rightful place.

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You know, I'm one who actually doesn't have a stake in this, but even I can see you're being more than a little hypocritical here. Every last one of your recent posts has been horrifically unsubtle digs, seemingly predicated on events that haven't even happened here making one wonder why they are even relevant. I mean to offer a fair warning, ITGing and "Oh it's okay I'm just gonna stand over here and laugh" as though you weren't involved and egging those you facetiously tell to calm down on makes you look less reputable, not more.

Try to do a little more introspection, and think on just how different you actually appear to be here. Since so far I've seen little difference. If this was not your intent, then I feel inclined to inquire what exactly it is since as Lunaxia said this thread is to the best of my knowledge intended as a sort of safe space/self-quarantine thread and so far you've appeared to do little but barge in and antagonize.

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Originally Posted by EliaStormblade

I'm not sure unleashing an indignant meltdown...

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Interesting that you feel a post countering a point you made utilising the self-same logic you employed is an "indignant meltdown" attempting to "own" you. It's quite an insight into your mindset, I must say.

But now that you presumably feel you've DARVO'd and projected yourself out of being accountable for posts made with palpable spite and distorted my words in the same way you did Teraq's, do you actually have anything to say in response to any of the arguments made here, or are you more interested in continuing to scrabble for the moral high ground you think is still within reach?

If I may: the righteous tone falls a little flat after stooping to baseless accusations and personal attacks.

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Originally Posted by TowaIsBestGirl

You know, I'm one who actually doesn't have a stake in this, but even I can see you're being more than a little hypocritical here. Every last one of your recent posts has been horrifically unsubtle digs, seemingly predicated on events that haven't even happened here making one wonder why they are even relevant. I mean to offer a fair warning, ITGing and "Oh it's okay I'm just gonna stand over here and laugh" as though you weren't involved and egging those you facetiously tell to calm down on makes you look less reputable, not more.

Try to do a little more introspection, and think on just how different you actually appear to be here. Since so far I've seen little difference. If this was not your intent, then I feel inclined to inquire what exactly it is since as Lunaxia said this thread is to the best of my knowledge intended as a sort of safe space/self-quarantine thread and so far you've appeared to do little but barge in and antagonize.

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You're laboring under the false notion that it matters how you see my responses. I came in to ask a question and I got my answer in the form of a long-winded "woe is me, we're being framed" spiel. It's all I needed to know. If that's a problem for this echo-chamber, it's theirs to resolve. I've no obligation to adhere to their made-up rules. Not sure why you expected me to affirm your self-assigned role as neutral arbiter to begin with, nor did I claim to be one myself. As I said: I asked a question, got an inadvertently illuminating answer, and I'm proceeding to resume judging this cadre for their embarrassing modus operandi. Your approval or acknowledgment is immaterial, but I wish you a good day/night if that's any comfort.

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Originally Posted by Xeronia

I mean I found myself largely agreeing with the sentiment of the thread myself but I see no reason to join stuff over it as I already have friends to rant to about it that at least will make doing the MSQ fun. We are playing the MSQ later this week and having a "Who can ruin the most cutscenes in their atrocious outfits" contest as well the story will at least be funny then. I am hoping King Slime Hat pulls out a victory with the insane physics personally but one of my friends has threatened a mismatched clown outfit.

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*sigh* lucky you. I don't have RL friends to rant to since all of them doesn't even play games (and the one who does don't like MMO). Once I foolishly rant to big ffxiv community place (reddit, reddit discord, twitter) and, well, I quickly learn how this playerbase treat minority (of opinion). So yeah, while it's not perfect, and I too occasionally went into argument/fight with people there, I'm thankful that place exist. Otherwise I'll go crazy.

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Originally Posted by EliaStormblade

You're laboring under the false notion that it matters how you see my responses. I came in to ask a question and I got my answer in the form of a long-winded "woe is me, we're being framed" spiel. It's all I needed to know. If that's a problem for this echo-chamber, it's theirs to resolve. I've no obligation to adhere to their made-up rules. Not sure why you expected me to affirm your self-assigned role as neutral arbiter to begin with, nor did I claim to be one myself. As I said: I asked a question, got an inadvertently illuminating answer, and I'm proceeding to resume judging this cadre for their embarrassing modus operandi. Your approval or acknowledgment is immaterial, but I wish you a good day/night if that's any comfort.

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but is this:

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So why were you guys organizing to brigade Pint's videos because you took exception to how he experienced the story? Why was the head of the discord banned from subreddits for 'vote-manipulating' while gloating about making a new alt account at the same time? Nobody thinks you're a "shadowy organization pulling strings from behind the scenes". Frankly, you're far too incompetent for that.

But what you are is unmitigatedly entitled, myopic and absurdly self-satisfied.

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the post you refer when you said "I came in to ask question"?


Edit: damn I want to read whatever fictional story you conjure up in your mind. Sounds like a funny conspiratorial fanfic

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Originally Posted by TowaIsBestGirl

safe space/self-quarantine thread

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Hardly. It's just a thread where you can be comfortable in speaking ill of Endwalker. Which actually gets a target painted on your back (if you make enough good points).

I have the most cursory relationship with the folks in this thread and the Discord server that's being talked about. Yet, just by associating with these lovely folk at all(and they are actually all quite lovely and sensible, though a bit heavy/more passionate than me), people went out of their way to look into me on Twitter(I mean, it's not hard to find me, but still) and photoshop my fiancée into porno scenes, while simultaneously disparaging her appearance.

Like it's not really quarantine when it's a public space / whoever feels like dunking on us this week comes in. You have but to look back on most pages in this thread to see people saying it's an invalid thread for invalid people spouting invalid opinions. I mean, hell, that's what's happening right now with EliaStormblade.

As it turns out, it's just a center for, "people you're allowed to hate."

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Originally Posted by Vyrerus

Hardly. It's just a thread where you can be comfortable in speaking ill of Endwalker.

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I'm so sorry you've had to go through that. That's absolutely vile. I can't fathom who on earth would do such things. Are there parts of the playerbase so genuinely offended by these opinions, or is it opportunistic trolls looking to create misery?

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Originally Posted by Lunaxia

I'm so sorry you've had to go through that. That's absolutely vile. I can't fathom who on earth would do such things. Are there parts of the playerbase so genuinely offended by these opinions, or is it opportunistic trolls looking to create misery?

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I'd say both but leaning on the latter. They just want a target and pretend to have moral high ground (while going on unfiltered transphobic tirades, truly ironic).
Having full access to the discord history like some of us do, the leaker had enough context to see that the "brigading" in Pint's video was really 3 people arguing in circle in one comment chain. Yet they felt their epic infiltration mission lacked spice so they grasped at every straw possible to make it bigger. (with good amount of real life fanfiction to fill the blanks) Just go on YouTube and just see for yourself what the "raiding" amounted to. Even out of context, that quote, which is pretty much the one thing they have against us, was a clear exageration.
It's absolutely nothing compared to whenever MrHappy or Zepla link this very thread for clicks, yet you don't see them complaining about that.

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Originally Posted by Kozh

*sigh* lucky you. I don't have RL friends to rant to since all of them doesn't even play games (and the one who does don't like MMO). Once I foolishly rant to big ffxiv community place (reddit, reddit discord, twitter) and, well, I quickly learn how this playerbase treat minority (of opinion). So yeah, while it's not perfect, and I too occasionally went into argument/fight with people there, I'm thankful that place exist. Otherwise I'll go crazy.

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Oh don't feel too bad. I just have a real stubborn set of friends determined to have fun with the MSQ and thus stupid outfits, gotta make it fun somehow.

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Originally Posted by Lunaxia

I'm so sorry you've had to go through that. That's absolutely vile. I can't fathom who on earth would do such things. Are there parts of the playerbase so genuinely offended by these opinions, or is it opportunistic trolls looking to create misery?

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Honestly I would say things are getting better as you can pretty much say you found the patch content story underwhelming and no one would really bat an eyelash at you, at least to what I have noticed myself.

I do hope those unhappy are still trying to find something they like about the game or have found something new to enjoy elsewhere. I myself intend to see the Duty Support changes and thus making an alt to play casually through the game with. I also have just picked up some other stuff myself while waiting on FF16.

Oh and as I just remembered it is today if any of you are trying savage this tier good luck to you and I hope it is as good as Normal was, it may not be my cup of tea but I hope those doing it enjoy it.

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Originally Posted by Lunaxia

I'm so sorry you've had to go through that. That's absolutely vile. I can't fathom who on earth would do such things. Are there parts of the playerbase so genuinely offended by these opinions, or is it opportunistic trolls looking to create misery?

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Originally Posted by Kazhar

I'd say both but leaning on the latter.

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Basically what Kazhar said here is what I have observed. I prefer not voicing my opinion often when it comes to EW. That being said, I do view the expansion as a whole misses the marks set by previous expansions, story not being an exception.

There are quite a few adamant defenders of EW and some of them take fanatical stances/approaches to defend their views and/or make unsubstantiated claims about those with viewpoints negative of EW. Thus, it can make it rather difficult to be critical of EW since some spaces have more of these individuals where topics devolve into pointless shouting and name calling on the internet rather than having an actual discussion and coming to a reasonable understanding, as I cannot expect people to disregard what they experienced over what I have in terms of EW.

Trolls also make up a fair chunk of people who instigate due to having nothing better to do and having a fair amount of guaranteed replies when they enter specific spaces. I would say there are more of them than not based on some of the posts I have seen being more bait than actual post, but that is my opinion on that matter.

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Originally Posted by Xeronia

Honestly I would say things are getting better as you can pretty much say you found the patch content story underwhelming and no one would really bat an eyelash at you, at least to what I have noticed myself.

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To be fair though, we've been able to comfortably criticize MSQ until Shadowbringers happened. After that? It's been literal hell trying to even say 'Stormblood bad'.. Because Shadowbringers somehow cleansed all of ARR-Stormblood. It was SO GOOD, "You have to like everything before it, because it sets up the story!"

They often forget all 3 ARR, Heavensward, and Stormblood had horrible pacing issues for the majority of their story. There are some good nuggets in there, but they could have been had for far less linear time and text.

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Originally Posted by R041

To be fair though, we've been able to comfortably criticize MSQ until Shadowbringers happened. After that? It's been literal hell trying to even say 'Stormblood bad'.. Because Shadowbringers somehow cleansed all of ARR-Stormblood. It was SO GOOD, "You have to like everything before it, because it sets up the story!"

They often forget all 3 ARR, Heavensward, and Stormblood had horrible pacing issues for the majority of their story. There are some good nuggets in there, but they could have been had for far less linear time and text.

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I still count Shadowbringers among the terrible pacing. Truth is, every expansion suffers from pacing issues and its mostly because of the quest design being not fun at all. Sure there are story bits that drag on (like that damn Talos section TWICE) but if everything in between was sprinkled with fun battle content then it wouldnt be bad and the story would arguably be a lot better for it.

This is why I dont think FFXIV's story is THAT good. Its above average but what makes a game story compelling is when you also make it fun to go through. This is why other single player rpgs have FFXIV beat in its content because they make sure the gameplay experience is tailored to go along with the narrative, but the msq is bogged down by "talk to this npc" numerous times and its just not a good thing to swallow.

This problem isnt just EW related.

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

I still count Shadowbringers among the terrible pacing. Truth is, every expansion suffers from pacing issues and its mostly because of the quest design being not fun at all. Sure there are story bits that drag on (like that damn Talos section TWICE) but if everything in between was sprinkled with fun battle content then it wouldnt be bad and the story would arguably be a lot better for it.

This is why I dont think FFXIV's story is THAT good. Its above average but what makes a game story compelling is when you also make it fun to go through. This is why other single player rpgs have FFXIV beat in its content because they make sure the gameplay experience is tailored to go along with the narrative, but the msq is bogged down by "talk to this npc" numerous times and its just not a good thing to swallow.

This problem isnt just EW related.

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I agree with you there, I've never really loved the MSQ - Liked sometimes, sure. But I'm not big on visual novels. Most old players I know didn't really like the MSQ itself, because it was mostly just creating a backdrop of Final Fantasy, which was good enough. But now it's trying to be the thing? When we know it's not even that good of a thing, let alone the thing to be good? (lol)

It feels like they have 90% writers and 10% designers working on MSQ, and that means there's not much lasting or engaging content in there. I truly don't understand why they've put all their eggs in the basket of just making MSQ the longest visual novel to ever exist. It doesn't even really compete with most of the mainlines for writing, to me anyway. It's long, but that doesn't mean it's good, because most of it's just pure exposition and filler. The arc has overstayed it's welcome, and it's always had major pacing issues.


Edit: When you realize that I barely enjoy the MSQ, and I don't do Extreme/Savage.. You'll understand why I'm frustrated. Prob thinking "What the shit do you even do then?" Exactly. Wtf do we do, when we don't babytown the MSQ, or no-life raid.

Also, watching the world race right now - It's funny, 'cause there was a WoW player on talking about how XIV doesn't have a ramp up from Normal to Savage content, so that makes it a bit tougher. Then the other guests gleefully explain that's why XIV is better. ? ? ? ? ?

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Originally Posted by Xeronia

Oh don't feel too bad. I just have a real stubborn set of friends determined to have fun with the MSQ and thus stupid outfits, gotta make it fun somehow.

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I can't help but feel it's a little less a case of "things are just getting better" - the forums went really off the rails with the mud-slinging prior to 6.4's release - and more that previously, people with more positive inclinations towards the story were "this is fine"-ing the MSQ and holding off on criticism for what they presumed would be an eventual pay-off, only to have another patch offer... really not much of anything at all, which has led to more grumbling in a good chunk of the playerbase and by default made taking a more critical look at the game suddenly much more common and acceptable. There's still an air of bitterness about though, and some players still can't help but get in digs, as you can see here.

Personally, I am out - my sub actually ran out several days prior to 6.4's release after I resubbed in an effort to get myself through the MSQ for Panda, but I just... couldn't justify spending more money on the incredibly high likelihood I would be disappointed again, so I caught some streams, realised I was right to save my money, and now I'm basically just chatting until my forum access goes, lol.

As of 6.4, for the first time. I started skipping cutscenes.

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Originally Posted by Aluja89

As of 6.4, for the first time. I started skipping cutscenes.

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omg, you totally missed the part where everyone said that Venat committed genocide. It was INTENSE, and everyone was like "yea, i never liked her, I'm just surprised it took everyone to catch on to how fake and evil she was."

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Originally Posted by R041

Also, watching the world race right now - It's funny, 'cause there was a WoW player on talking about how XIV doesn't have a ramp up from Normal to Savage content, so that makes it a bit tougher. Then the other guests gleefully explain that's why XIV is better. ? ? ? ? ?

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So they invited nothing but sycophants, nice. Basically anyone with 2 braincells to rub together can see that having no difficulty curve and then a massive difficulty cliff from normal to even just extreme is not good design.

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Originally Posted by Boblawblah

omg, you totally missed the part where everyone said that Venat committed genocide. It was INTENSE, and everyone was like "yea, i never liked her, I'm just surprised it took everyone to catch on to how fake and evil she was."

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It's okay, they inadvertently say that during the raids anyway

For me, it's been that way since back in 6.0 during the Hydaelyn fight. (I really did try, for the record, to see it through, but frustration won out.)

(Though it would have started regardless when we were revving up to save the world and I was suddenly required to pause to give a bunch of neurotic scientists a pep talk. That was actually likely the moment I lost the ability to have faith in the writing completely.)

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Originally Posted by Lunaxia

I can't help but feel it's a little less a case of "things are just getting better" - the forums went really off the rails with the mud-slinging prior to 6.4's release - and more that previously, people with more positive inclinations towards the story were "this is fine"-ing the MSQ and holding off on criticism for what they presumed would be an eventual pay-off, only to have another patch offer... really not much of anything at all, which has led to more grumbling in a good chunk of the playerbase and by default made taking a more critical look at the game suddenly much more common and acceptable. There's still an air of bitterness about though, and some players still can't help but get in digs, as you can see here.

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Mud slinging prior to 6.4 is an understatement. If I recall, it started during Shadowbringers, especially when it came concerning whether or not one felt "Emet-Selch did nothing wrong". You'd have the Ascian stans getting on the case of people who weren't in their favor, and people who weren't in their favor getting on the case of everybody who was. I do not recall any insane amounts mud slinging prior to that...off the top of my head anyway.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

Mud slinging prior to 6.4 is an understatement. If I recall, it started during Shadowbringers, especially when it came concerning whether or not one felt "Emet-Selch did nothing wrong". You'd have the Ascian stans getting on the case of people who weren't in their favor, and people who weren't in their favor getting on the case of everybody who was. I do not recall any insane amounts mud slinging prior to that...off the top of my head anyway.

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I wasn't around when that was going on, so I can't really comment. I just know that previously most of the conflict was contained to this and a few other threads, and generally happened when someone with a grievance against negative opinions would come in and obliquely imply something unflattering to start off an argument. For the past few weeks it seemed to suddenly reach a peak with both sides forming factions and taking out grudges on the other, until basically everyone was strawmanning each other and trolls started joining in and further stirring things up. 6.4 seems to have poured some water on it, thankfully.

...I kind of regret not being around, though. I'd love to see the logic employed behind such arguments.

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Originally Posted by Boblawblah

omg, you totally missed the part where everyone said that Venat committed genocide. It was INTENSE, and everyone was like "yea, i never liked her, I'm just surprised it took everyone to catch on to how fake and evil she was."

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My favorite part was when she sundered everyone again, making them even shorter.

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Originally Posted by Dorito_Burrito

My favorite part was when she sundered everyone again, making them even shorter.

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So lalas had a couple extra sunderings..that explains so much.

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Originally Posted by Teraq

Oh, you guys will love this particular little tidbit of the French localisation:

Instead of commenting on Athena's ambition with "And you would destroy the lives already upon it!", Erichthonios says "You would destroy current mankind to replace it with your 'new species'!? This is madness, that's… genocide!".

Interesting phrasing, isn't it? It's like you could literally just transpose this, word for word, particularly the specification of current mankind (because there is a special place in the sea of stars for people who just lump the Ancients and the Sundered under one big "mankind, unspecified"), to what anyone at all SHOULD have said to Venat.

Hey… she does have exactly the same eye color after all, doesn't she? Mommy…

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I keep feeling the quest dialogues are like subtweeting You Know Who, even in English, lol. Guess I am not the only one.

I know that many of the dialogues by Lahabrea are really meant to hint on and contrast with what he became in the end, but the funny thing is whatever you want to say about Lahabrea it applies twice more to Venat, so the effect becomes hilarious and why I feel its basically subtweeting her.

I did the patch, I am upset at they fact they fixed the King Slime Hat on flight movement as Vrtra wasn't nearly as insane as Shinryu was at the end of EW in the physics. Moving onto the story it was...bad. The more I reflect on it the more I end up disliking it. So Golbez should have been a solo fight if he was just going to shake off the fight and go ahead like I barely scratched him anyway. In terms of the rest of the story I skipped one cut scene as the recap my friends gave me was enough to get what was going on and I didn't really care to see another food scene and fan-service Estinien. Overall this arc just feels bad to me in so many regards like the power-scaling and just how uninterested I am in Zero are major factors of me not enjoying the story arc much.

I will also cite doing optional content really didn't help this story arc. Oh you did Void quests? Sorry we can't even give you an option to say they are busy and can't help. You did the EW final role quest? Sorry it will never get brought up again as it has too many requirements. I really found it funny i needed permission to get in a tower I was already in once to deal with the final role quest. Like I understand there was more then just entering the tower but I would have liked "So can I bring up I saved you all from the blasphemy of the final role quest and call it even?"

Honestly 7.0 better show me something more interesting and I am just not excited for the main thing the game sells itself on, the story. I did enjoy the other content don't get me wrong but it is done so quickly I feel like I can just go "Actually play at launch and the X.55" camp if it continues as Endwalker has and I would save a ton of time and money.

Why is this useless thread bumped again?

827 pages of discussing drunken writers' attempt at hardcore 20th century philosophy?

It's not that deep: the writers wanted to write a deep, nuanced story but failed. Which is why we have Venat and why the story is so inconsistent on whether Venat is "good" or "bad", in a way that miraculously somehow still doesn't portray any nuance. Imagine that.

827 pages of trying to find Answers in bad writing.

This thread started off basically saying that but now it's Venat vs Zodiark fanclub fight lol

Bruh even the writers don't know wtf they're writing and what exactly they want there's literally no point in trying to analyze this as if it's writing deserving of analysis. Don't forget that they try very hard to retcon characters because they are popular. E.g. Yshtola was supposed to die in 2.x but survived because people buy body pillows of her.

It is somewhat refreshing to see this thread still active, even if I feel it has long since become pointless; CBU3 and Yoshida clearly have a vision for the game, and its story, that runs opposite of what many people would have liked. For myself, at least, there is no longer a point in trying to bring the problems of it up, because nothing will be changing - they've made their bed, and chosen their audience. I appreciate those still fighting to showcase the atrocious state both the story and the game are in, however. This thread, for better or worse, stands as a testament to how poor of an expansion Endwalker is - what should have been our capstone to a 10-year long story, wasted and turned into the slop it is.

And this is what we can expect going forward? Atrocious.

I haven't bothered with these forums for a while now, as they too have not changed - the same voices trying to bring proper criticism, suggestions, and concerns to light, only to be shouted down by the same cultists who feel anything negative thing said about the game is a direct attack on themselves. It's an exhausting place, honestly, and I say this as someone who deals with the dribble of WoW's forums, lmao.

I've been spending much of my time with WoW. It ended up taking over as my "main" MMO, whereas ESO has been put in my secondary rotation that I sub to when I feel like/can afford to (which-- was recently, actually. Necrom is fun!). I also have added LotRO into the mix, finally, and I have to say - these three MMOs are likely to keep me satisfied for a long time. I can't recall a time in the past 10ish years where I felt as happy and relieved to go home and play an MMO, as I have since I left this game and moved to those three. It's done wonders for my mental health, and I have three games that all fill different needs in ways XIV never has - I couldn't ask for more, honestly!

And it is because of these MMOs, that I have finally been able to cancel my sub. I held on to it out of some misplaced nostalgia and attachment to my XIV characters, and due to the atrocious housing system; in a perfect world, I wouldn't have to be chained to an MMO I haven't logged on to in.... months, just to keep a house for the potential day I and my FC members return to this game. But as time has passed, I realize the likelihood of that has been slowly ticking down to a nice, solid "never". And frankly, in this economy? I can't afford to be paying for garbage I don't use. Especially so, when there are three other games far more worth what money I do have to spend on video games.

So I'm finally free. Free of this disappointment, of this wasted potential. Of the cultists, creeps, and lazy, terminally online complainers. My sub ends tomorrow, and I've finally uninstalled FFXIV - only keeping the screenshot folders, and even those will be getting pruned at some point when I feel like bothering, probably.

I wish I could say it was a fun journey, but over the months since I first floated away from it, I've come to realize I haven't really had genuine, all-encompassing fun or enjoyment with this game since Heavensward ended. I just kept lying to myself about it, or kept holding on for aspects it still was keeping me entertained with, even as other parts faltered. Up until I couldn't anymore, with Endwalker.

I think the only thing I'll really miss is the music - which I can listen to outside of the game, anyway. I'd miss my friends, but... most of them have left the game, as well, and many of us went to WoW (with some of us trying out LotRO, and a couple playing ESO off and on). My characters? The ones I was most attached to, I just yanked over with me to whatever other MMOs I ended up in.

Honestly, when I logged in to get stuff settled and pass money to the one friend who still actively plays, I felt... nothing, looking around the dead neighborhood we've inhabited for years. Only a small spark of sadness and regret when in our house, and I think much of that is more attributed to all the memories we made within it, rather than the place itself.

To those still finding things worth staying for, despite the problems you have with much of the game: godspeed. I am happy you can find those spots of entertainment and joy, genuinely. I wish I still could.

To those still keeping this thread active: godspeed. You have more fight in you to see change happen than I do, in the end. I'm too old to yell at an egotistical developer and his cult following, trying to see things return to how it was when I first fell for the game. I'd rather just give my money and time elsewhere, enjoying my free time and having fun adventures in gorgeous, thriving fantasy worlds with unique lore and settings that are allowed to exist outside of the PC.

I still appreciate this thread existing, and having given me an outlet for the feelings I felt alone in feeling back then. Though I no longer really interact with some in that one discord, I did appreciate the time I spent there, discussing things with others who felt as I did - and even having nice debates, and seeing the perspective of others, even if I may not have fully agreed all the time. I hope most of you are doing well, wherever your own adventures have taken you.

For now, it's good to be free. Was my journey worth it?

No. No it wasn't. Not when this was the payoff.