What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

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Originally Posted by Melorie

Dude, people are still writing Reylo fanfics and creating headcanons till this day, long after the last movie of the new star wars trilogy. If you think that someone passionate about a particular story has an empty life... You're in for a surprised tbh.

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Why? Why did you have to remind me those movies existed? Dammit. I need brain bleach now.

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Originally Posted by Striker44

When you reach the point of putting words in someone's mouth in an attempt to have an argument, you only serve to admit that you have none..

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When you deny what you clearly imply, it only serves to show just how disingenuous you are with discussion you bring to the table.

Ok, so you didn't verbatim say, "You shouldn't take a video game story seriously." But you derided anybody who, in your opinion, is way too serious about games, implying that taking a video game's story seriously at all is negative. As if how good a story is or is not, isn't subjective to its beholder. Same goes for how seriously someone takes it. Regardless of its medium.

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Originally Posted by Striker44

When you reach the point of putting words in someone's mouth in an attempt to have an argument, you only serve to admit that you have none. Nowhere did I say someone can't take a video game story "seriously" - I said there's such a thing as expecting a masterpiece when there's no practical or realistic reason to expect one. Personally, I would put FFXIV's story (EW included) right up there with Dragon Age, Homeworld, and the like. I think the story is amazing, and it's obvious why it's a selling point for the game. Again, though - "amazing" for a video game doesn't mean "one of the greatest works of lore and literature ever produced by humanity." When you set such unrealistic expectations, the only natural end result is disappointment.

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You were the one that said, and I quote:

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Originally Posted by Striker44

A common thread I seem to find running through the complaints are people taking a video game way too seriously imo.

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Not me. So maybe think twice if you really meant that.

Besides, I haven't even seen people comparing the game writing to other literature nor making giant, impossible requests regarding what the story should have been.

800 pages of discussion and I doubt you had a good amount of people comparing it to LOTR, or Dostoiévski or any other reverencied work. The game sells huge expensive encyclopedias and market itself around it's lore and you're surprised people are discussing it deeply? They are reading a story for years and just because they have certain expectations in how it would end or want the answer for certain plot hole doesn't really means that they are putting insuferable expectations upon it. Besides, you keep talking about how "they shouldn't expect it from a game", so your point regarding how the quality of gaming writing shouldn't be looked with the same respect and thus expectation that other media does keeps repeating itself, and *probably* because you can't understand why people would consume a history with critical lenses. You're literally telling people they shouldn't complain because this is a video-game, that makes no sense.

Also, Disco Elysium is a treasure to the humanity when it comes to writing and so is Planescape Torment so, yeah. Are you from the same crowd that are impressed when cartoons/animation deals with deep, "adult" problems as well? Because it's the same discourse.

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Originally Posted by Absimiliard

Why? Why did you have to remind me those movies existed? Dammit. I need brain bleach now.

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LMAO At least it made a eternal impression on you.

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Originally Posted by Remedi

5.0 dropped more than a year ago, unless your life is so empty I think you'd best move on more so if you believe nobody is hearing you.

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*6.0. Also what Melorie said. Also also a lot the recent posts are about 6.x stuff. 6.3 dropped way less than a year ago ^^

Just wondering: do you tell this also in topics praising EW?

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Originally Posted by Striker44

When you reach the point of putting words in someone's mouth in an attempt to have an argument, you only serve to admit that you have none.

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Aren't you the guy who thinks "muh majoritah" is an argument worth listening to?

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Originally Posted by kpxmanifesto

He would also deflect some of the questions by saying things like "when you're making this world you'll just sort of sometimes ignore things that are inconvenient" (4:25:35) and "I think you guys can come up with your own theories for this one" (4:08:49).

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I suppose we have our answer as to why there are continuity errors between how shadowbringers and endwalker describe the sundering. Perhaps sticking to shadowbringers' version of the sundering might have been too inconvenient for the devs, so they glossed it over with a different version.

I'm not 100% on this, but I believe I recall reading something about the devs changing the Endwalker story shortly before release because they felt, in light of then-recent events, it would've been too dark.

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Originally Posted by Absimiliard

I'm not 100% on this, but I believe I recall reading something about the devs changing the Endwalker story shortly before release because they felt, in light of then-recent events, it would've been too dark.

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I have no idea where the evidence for that quote would be, but I definitely remember them saying that.

I dont think it'd be smart to dramatically change the story at the last minute in development. Of course, that could explain some of the plotholes.

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Originally Posted by Rolder50

I dont think it'd be smart to dramatically change the story at the last minute in development. Of course, that could explain some of the plotholes.

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Considering they cut an entire expansion and still tried to tell both expansions worth of story in one, I wouldn't exactly call the writers smart lol

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Originally Posted by AwesomeJr44

Considering they cut an entire expansion and still tried to tell both expansions worth of story in one, I wouldn't exactly call the writers smart lol

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I wouldn't call them stupid, either, just practical and realistic. The complaints some people make on here are very naive/immature, as in expecting a video game series to progress for 5 expansions over 10 years without any continuity issues whatsoever. Having a retcon somewhere along the line is just called normal and human, but some people act as if it's the end of the world.

Frankly, just taking a quick spin through YT and seeing the hundreds of people posting about how much they've enjoyed the game and the story in EW - I'd say the writers must be rather smart indeed.

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Originally Posted by Striker44

I wouldn't call them stupid, either, just practical and realistic.

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If the writers were practical or realistic, the story would have been drastically different and probably far better.

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Originally Posted by Striker44

Frankly, just taking a quick spin through YT and seeing the hundreds of people posting about how much they've enjoyed the game and the story in EW - I'd say the writers must be rather smart indeed.

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It's not a Striker post without a mention of his fake majoritah. The majoritah does seem to be getting smaller though. Apparently now it's only 'hundreds'.

https://img2.finalfantasyxiv.com/acc...917.1654817530

Maybe one day Striker will learn about how the YouTube algorithm works.

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Originally Posted by Kazhar

Maybe one day Striker will learn about how the YouTube algorithm works.

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Guild it has master the vTuber algorithm with new critical miss series. Is the skill of being ratioed. By power of 2head take will guild take social media world by the storm of laughter. Is the force of the reckoning. They think it memeing but we still dreaming. By epic fail we achieve the greatness. In the name of the Princess Svelte Lana.

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Originally Posted by Striker44

Frankly, just taking a quick spin through YT and seeing the hundreds of people posting about how much they've enjoyed the game and the story in EW - I'd say the writers must be rather smart indeed.

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If you take all the YT algorithm surfers as face value you would think EW was the most depressing story ever with all those (fake) tears

Can someone explain why G'raha needed to carry an aetheric analyzer? I thought that was what the goggles every scion carries were for.

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Originally Posted by ReynTime

Can someone explain why G'raha needed to carry an aetheric analyzer? I thought that was what the goggles every scion carries were for.

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Something something, the goggles let you observe it. Something something, the aetheric analyzer records it. Something something possible retcon. Something something, weren't you blown away by how cute it was that Catboi Sage Deluxe had to lug around something oh so heavy even though he knows incredibly powerful levitation magic?

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Originally Posted by ReynTime

Can someone explain why G'raha needed to carry an aetheric analyzer? I thought that was what the goggles every scion carries were for.

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To make a comic relief scene, as that seemed to be the only reason. The it made no sense for him not to be using a pack animal to help carry the equipment so the scene just seemed to be there to make him look goofy for comic relief

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Originally Posted by ReynTime

Can someone explain why G'raha needed to carry an aetheric analyzer? I thought that was what the goggles every scion carries were for.

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https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ck6y1gXXEAAYyf4.jpg

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Originally Posted by DevonEllwood

I am in the minority, but I hated Elpis. I'll use it to segue into your statement "Endwalker was popular and a success". I'm just going to be blunt, but I have been working in a specific environment that has brought my attention that people's comprehension levels are absolutely abysmal and it's embarrassing. People do not read. People do not have patience. People do not give an f-bomber plane about anything beyond surface level. People just want their hand held because it's easier. […]
I'm not going to say my comprehension levels are great. People liked endwalker because they saw a pretty game with great music and a neat story. They're not going to look into it much more than that. I don't need my hand held for the story, I don't need it held for the lore, and I don't want it held for the combat.

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Absolutely this. I don't deny there are lore people who actually pay attention and still somehow love Endwalker, more power to them, but it honestly just seems the vast majority does not care this much and is just in it for a fairly enjoyable, "don't think too hard about this" romp, like most blockbuster movies are. Most people don't care to dissect a story and point out every little plot hole. It's the irony with FFXIV: it's touted as this amazing story, but at the same time, people will chide you for analyzing it too closely. "It's just a video game!". Yeah, it's just another media to tell a story. This does not mean it has to be subpar and not stand up to scrutiny.

That is when people are not giving you the ol' "Have we played the same game? / Pay attention to the cutscenes sweetie…" while in the same breath spouting headcanon like "Ancients were going to keep sacrificing lesser humans to their blood god" like it's the truth. Christ, dude. I've been obsessing over Ascians and Ancients for the past three years. I have this big folder of collected fan art right here. I can recite every Convocation seat and the color of their associated crystal in the order of the zodiac. I've done every side quest and spoken to every single NPC I could in Amaurot and Elpis, sometimes in multiple languages. If only I had never cared enough to pay this amount of attention. I truly, truly wish I hadn't.

This argument is especially bad when it's followed by the person regurgitating Endwalker's bad plot and aesop at me. Yeah. I got it the first time around when I suffered through it, because I happen to have a functioning brain. You repeating this stupid story but embellishing it with personal insults is not exactly making its case any better. People will just reply to criticism of Venat with a link to her martyr-o-vision cutscene, as if they think they are making a point that is completely new to me.

https://i.imgur.com/YaRkNk0.png

Here it is: Endwalker having all the subtlety of a brick the writer is throwing directly at your face, featuring everyone's favorite race. To be fair you must have a very high IQ to understand…

All in all, I cannot figure out what precise amount of attention I had to give Endwalker to enjoy it. I can only suppose that paying simultaneously too little and too much attention works exactly the same as the logic that the Ancients were both too perfect to live (the sheer gall of them to have been born with biological immortality and creation magics that instantly make their society post-scarcity!) and too flawed to be brought back: the answer is You Are Wrong.

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Originally Posted by DevonEllwood

Elpis was a frustrating mess for me for the bad dialogue and the pointlessness of conversations. To use an example, the scene where Hades is teaching the critter to fly and Hythlo would not shut up. Look, hes a great person. Look at him helping! I am not joking in that Elpis helped people realize that Hades wasn't always a big meanie pants. I mean, I thought that was obvious in Shadowbringers. That he was a normal person until 12k years of suffering.

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You are entirely right, of course. However, I would posit that the subtle brick being thrown directly at the player's face is exactly what most of this player base needs. This reminds me of that post-5.3 interview where Yoshida says they made the incredibly unsubtle parallel between G'raha and Elidibus with that one line explicitly so players could better understand Elidibus through G'raha. I honestly found that insulting. Who even needed that to empathize with Elidibus??

YoshiP knows his audience, I suppose. Even as Pandaemonium bashes you over the head that the guy was nothing but the most precious of sweethearts (which was already made plainly obvious in 5.3 and its accompanying short story), you'll still find people wishing they could be hostile to Themis in dialogue options, because I guess they enjoy roleplaying their WoL as a moron with a grudge and no grasp of time and logic. Even though everyone and everything is telling them the Unsundered have been warped by trauma and 12k years of suffering and loneliness. Glad these people got the option to accuse Lahabrea of things he did literally twelve thousand years into the future, though. Gotta throw the Minority Report pre-crime people a bone, after all.

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Originally Posted by DevonEllwood

Yet, the worst part of Endwalker is Yoshida's attitude toward it. Him not knowing people cared about the lore so much. I'm sorry, but he doesn't have an excuse to not understand. Does he just forget about all the lore QandA? Is the game not marketed for its story? Do you not have lore books? A major complaint people had about WoW was the lore being retconned. This and Yoshida clearly wanting to be done with the story so he can "move on" to other stories.

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https://i.imgur.com/r0Reegf.png

Happy anniversary to this Q&A, by the way. The nail in the coffin of 6.0.

I particularly love that this was his immediate response to a question about Ascians in particular. It's like he's surprised people even care about them when they aren't named Emet-Selch.

It comes across as the polite way to say "wow, you guys care so much more about Ascians than I ever did!". I know, man. I know. I've played through Endwalker. I know you don't care about Ascians, you don't have to say it out loud.

And even Emet he expresses confusion about, sometimes bordering on resentment it seems, when he draws a false equivalence between him and Hermes and Venat in the very same Q&A, asking why people would resent Venat and Hermes but not Emet. This man truly, absolutely does not get it.

(And in case you were wondering, yes, of course I'm still mad about the obvious lion mask apparently not being Fandaniel's. I still refuse to accept YoshiP's answer. This is stupid. It's a lion, not a goat! At least PRETEND it was big brain foreshadowing for a main antagonist instead of "uhhhh random lol")

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Originally Posted by Teraq

I particularly love that this was his immediate response to a question about Ascians in particular. It's like he's surprised people even care about them when they aren't named Emet-Selch.

It comes across as the polite way to say "wow, you guys care so much more about Ascians than I ever did!". I know, man. I know. I've played through Endwalker. I know you don't care about Ascians, you don't have to say it out loud.

And even Emet he expresses confusion about, sometimes bordering on resentment it seems, when he draws a false equivalence between him and Hermes and Venat in the very same Q&A, asking why people would resent Venat and Hermes but not Emet. This man truly, absolutely does not get it.

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Yeah, that Q and A session was pretty bad. He looked visibly uncomfortable as he struggled to answer fans' questions about the lore, as if he were withering away in his seat. He was pretty much in damage control mode for the entire duration of answering questions related to the MSQ.

Hello! Long time lurker, first time poster. This thread has kept me sane for the entirety of Endwalker, knowing that there *are* people out there who can recognize it for the train wreck it is. I had to log on and make my first (real) post in the forum after reaching Floor 30 in Eureka Orthos, because man if that last cutscene isn't emblematic of everything wrong with this expansion.

"WoL, now that you've been inside the tower's unearthed basement that never came up before, what do you think of the Allag and what they did?"

A. They were good people and did nothing wrong!
B. They weren't good but they weren't bad either!
C. They were the most evil people in the world!

No nuance allowed, gotta boil everything down to three simplistic choices instead of just cutting away and letting the player imagine what answer they gave to Koh and her awful new outfit instead.

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Originally Posted by AceNoi

Hello! Long time lurker, first time poster. This thread has kept me sane for the entirety of Endwalker, knowing that there *are* people out there who can recognize it for the train wreck it is. I had to log on and make my first (real) post in the forum after reaching Floor 30 in Eureka Orthos, because man if that last cutscene isn't emblematic of everything wrong with this expansion.

"WoL, now that you've been inside the tower's unearthed basement that never came up before, what do you think of the Allag and what they did?"

A. They were good people and did nothing wrong!
B. They weren't good but they weren't bad either!
C. They were the most evil people in the world!

No nuance allowed, gotta boil everything down to three binary choices instead of just cutting away and letting the player imagine what answer they gave to Koh and her awful new outfit instead.

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I haven't done that yet, but I for one am glad to see that CBU3 also subscribes to Bioware's design philosophy of the blue, green and red beam lmao.

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Originally Posted by ReynTime

Can someone explain why G'raha needed to carry an aetheric analyzer? I thought that was what the goggles every scion carries were for.

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Actually, wait.
With the Costume Changes, did anybody (besides Kryile, because she is still the 1 Scion that hasnt gone through an Evolution) even keep, much less even USE those Goggles?
So, while its a good question....did they even have them anymore?

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Originally Posted by AceNoi

No nuance allowed, gotta boil everything down to three binary choices instead of just cutting away and letting the player imagine what answer they gave to Koh and her awful new outfit instead.

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We agree. Three binary choice is remove all nuance. Should be three hexadecimal choice.

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Originally Posted by AceNoi

Hello! Long time lurker, first time poster. This thread has kept me sane for the entirety of Endwalker, knowing that there *are* people out there who can recognize it for the train wreck it is. I had to log on and make my first (real) post in the forum after reaching Floor 30 in Eureka Orthos, because man if that last cutscene isn't emblematic of everything wrong with this expansion.

"WoL, now that you've been inside the tower's unearthed basement that never came up before, what do you think of the Allag and what they did?"

A. They were good people and did nothing wrong!
B. They weren't good but they weren't bad either!
C. They were the most evil people in the world!

No nuance allowed, gotta boil everything down to three binary choices instead of just cutting away and letting the player imagine what answer they gave to Koh and her awful new outfit instead.

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"three binary choices"

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Originally Posted by AceNoi

Hello! Long time lurker, first time poster. This thread has kept me sane for the entirety of Endwalker, knowing that there *are* people out there who can recognize it for the train wreck it is.

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I'm using my last day of forum access – because 6.3 sucked this badly I've picked up WoW again – to say that seeing posts like this never fails to bring me joy, because we all have the same story: this fandom is an echo chamber, and we all felt like we were "insane" and alone. I am still getting messages by random people thanking me in replies for articulating what they felt about Endwalker (which is a rather dire situation tbh because I hate to think my rambling rants manage to successfully articulate anything) and making them feel less alone.

Allag has always felt so weird to me, lore-wise. Their civilisation apparently lasted for a millennia, if I recall correctly, and throughout that millennia their entire identity was apparently looking tacky and being Certifiably Bad. I mean, I guess their architecture wasn't literal coffins like Mhach, but at least Mhach had the good taste of, overall, not making me want to gouge my eyes out. There is literally one good thing that has come out of Allag, and it is Mr Patch 5.4 Stupid Sexy Scientist Allagan Laguna. Allag has always felt fake as world building, to me. Basically all Allagan names we know of are these shoe-horned FFIII references, and some of the most important Allagan characters we've seen have always been depicted as literally raid boss models. Endwalker, please stop trying to make me feel anything for the FFIII spoopy skelton man we can't even see emote. I know Yoshitsugu Matsuoka is carrying this whole character incredibly hard, but he isn't nearly enough to salvage Amon's boss model in cutscenes. There's a reason why since 5.0 we've kept coming up with excuses to have most Ascians and Ancients keep the hood and the mask off.

Stop trying to make Amon-Fandaniel-Hermes happen, Endwalker. Amon-Fandaniel-Hermes isn't happening.

Oh, and please don't mind the very obvious, weird unfunny troll that has somehow escaped moderators for literally 8 months straight, even though mods have just proved they're monitoring this thread because a certain poster's recent message was deleted. We're pretty sure by now, thanks to an unfortunate slip-up, that it is a most eminent figure of the lore masters' guild with a very particular grudge. Names matter, after all.

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Originally Posted by Teraq

I'm using my last day of forum access – because 6.3 sucked this badly I've picked up WoW again – to say that seeing posts like this never fails to bring me joy, because we all have the same story: this fandom is an echo chamber, and we all felt like we were "insane" and alone. I am still getting messages by random people thanking me in replies for articulating what they felt about Endwalker (which is a rather dire situation tbh because I hate to think my rambling rants manage to successfully articulate anything) and making them feel less alone.

Allag has always felt so weird to me, lore-wise. Their civilisation apparently lasted for a millennia, if I recall correctly, and throughout that millennia their entire identity was apparently looking tacky and being Certifiably Bad. I mean, I guess their architecture wasn't literal coffins like Mhach, but at least Mhach had the good taste of, overall, not making me want to gouge my eyes out. There is literally one good thing that has come out of Allag, and it is Mr Patch 5.4 Stupid Sexy Scientist Allagan Laguna. Allag has always felt fake as world building, to me. Basically all Allagan names we know of are these shoe-horned FFIII references, and some of the most important Allagan characters we've seen have always been depicted as literally raid boss models. Endwalker, please stop trying to make me feel anything for the FFIII spoopy skelton man we can't even see emote. I know Yoshitsugu Matsuoka is carrying this whole character incredibly hard, but he isn't nearly enough to salvage Amon's boss model in cutscenes. There's a reason why since 5.0 we've kept coming up with excuses to have most Ascians and Ancients keep the hood and the mask off.

Stop trying to make Amon-Fandaniel-Hermes happen, Endwalker. Amon-Fandaniel-Hermes isn't happening.

Oh, and please don't mind the very obvious, weird unfunny troll that has somehow escaped moderators for literally 8 months straight, even though mods have just proved they're monitoring this thread because a certain poster's recent message was deleted. We're pretty sure by now, thanks to an unfortunate slip-up, that it is a most eminent figure of the lore masters' guild with a very particular grudge. Names matter, after all.

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Too bad you and everyone else in this thread aint no different because I bet you believe Shadowbringers's story was top tier unlike me who believes it wasnt that good. I'm in the Stormblood msq was actually really good crowd. WHERE'S MY ECHO CHAMBER HUH!?

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

Too bad you and everyone else in this thread aint no different because I bet you believe Shadowbringers's story was top tier unlike me who believes it wasnt that good. I'm in the Stormblood msq was actually really good crowd. WHERE'S MY ECHO CHAMBER HUH!?

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I don't know why you care so much about people's opinion on Shadowbringers. (Especially here, since it's mostly about 6.0)

You're free to dislike Shadowbringers. It wasn't perfect, and in some ways it started a downward spiral for the story even if it wasn't clear at the time. (Before the usual suspects come arrest me for my crimes against "objectivity/majority", I'm only stating my opinion here). And yes, Stormblood's story, while flawed, did a lot of things right.

Most, but not all, people I know who expressed their dissatisfaction with 6.0's story did like 5.0, but I wouldn't say it's closely related to 6.0's perceived issues.
I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be impressed with Venat, Hermes, Labyrinthos 2.0 and Ultima Thule even if Shadowbringers didn't exist. I wasn't even a big Ancient / Ascian / Zodiark fan before Endwalker. (Ironically the story team's best efforts at making them unsympathetic made them more sympathetic to me)

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Originally Posted by Saraide

"three binary choices"

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AceNoi used binary wrong, for sure, but...

01000001. 01010100 01101000 01100101 01111001 00100000 01110111 01100101 01110010 01100101 00100000 01100111 01101111 01101111 01100100 00100000 01110000 01100101 01101111 01110000 01101100 01100101 00100000 01100001 01101110 01100100 00100000 01100100 01101001 01100100 00100000 01101110 01101111 01110100 01101000 01101001 01101110 01100111 00100000 01110111 01110010 01101111 01101110 01100111 00100001

01000010. 01010100 01101000 01100101 01111001 00100000 01110111 01100101 01110010 01100101 01101110 00100111 01110100 00100000 01100111 01101111 01101111 01100100 00100000 01100010 01110101 01110100 00100000 01110100 01101000 01100101 01111001 00100000 01110111 01100101 01110010 01100101 01101110 00100111 01110100 00100000 01100010 01100001 01100100 00100000 01100101 01101001 01110100 01101000 01100101 01110010 00100001

01000011. 01010100 01101000 01100101 01111001 00100000 01110111 01100101 01110010 01100101 00100000 01110100 01101000 01100101 00100000 01101101 01101111 01110011 01110100 00100000 01100101 01110110 01101001 01101100 00100000 01110000 01100101 01101111 01110000 01101100 01100101 00100000 01101001 01101110 00100000 01110100 01101000 01100101 00100000 01110111 01101111 01110010 01101100 01100100 00100001 00001010

Three binary choices!

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Originally Posted by Vyrerus

AceNoi used binary wrong, for sure, but...

01000001. 01010100 01101000 01100101 01111001 00100000 01110111 01100101 01110010 01100101 00100000 01100111 01101111 01101111 01100100 00100000 01110000 01100101 01101111 01110000 01101100 01100101 00100000 01100001 01101110 01100100 00100000 01100100 01101001 01100100 00100000 01101110 01101111 01110100 01101000 01101001 01101110 01100111 00100000 01110111 01110010 01101111 01101110 01100111 00100001

01000010. 01010100 01101000 01100101 01111001 00100000 01110111 01100101 01110010 01100101 01101110 00100111 01110100 00100000 01100111 01101111 01101111 01100100 00100000 01100010 01110101 01110100 00100000 01110100 01101000 01100101 01111001 00100000 01110111 01100101 01110010 01100101 01101110 00100111 01110100 00100000 01100010 01100001 01100100 00100000 01100101 01101001 01110100 01101000 01100101 01110010 00100001

01000011. 01010100 01101000 01100101 01111001 00100000 01110111 01100101 01110010 01100101 00100000 01110100 01101000 01100101 00100000 01101101 01101111 01110011 01110100 00100000 01100101 01110110 01101001 01101100 00100000 01110000 01100101 01101111 01110000 01101100 01100101 00100000 01101001 01101110 00100000 01110100 01101000 01100101 00100000 01110111 01101111 01110010 01101100 01100100 00100001 00001010

Three binary choices!

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Thank you for your service.

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Originally Posted by Vyrerus

AceNoi used binary wrong, for sure, but...

01000001. 01010100 01101000 01100101 01111001 00100000 01110111 01100101 01110010 01100101 00100000 01100111 01101111 01101111 01100100 00100000 01110000 01100101 01101111 01110000 01101100 01100101 00100000 01100001 01101110 01100100 00100000 01100100 01101001 01100100 00100000 01101110 01101111 01110100 01101000 01101001 01101110 01100111 00100000 01110111 01110010 01101111 01101110 01100111 00100001

01000010. 01010100 01101000 01100101 01111001 00100000 01110111 01100101 01110010 01100101 01101110 00100111 01110100 00100000 01100111 01101111 01101111 01100100 00100000 01100010 01110101 01110100 00100000 01110100 01101000 01100101 01111001 00100000 01110111 01100101 01110010 01100101 01101110 00100111 01110100 00100000 01100010 01100001 01100100 00100000 01100101 01101001 01110100 01101000 01100101 01110010 00100001

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Three binary choices!

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I'll choose the second one. It's 1s and 0s look the most appealing.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

Until otherwise stated, I head canon that the more human-looking races are direct descendants of the Ancients, while the less human races (Including Hrothgar) were either created by the Ancients, Zodiark, or more recent post-sundering civilizations like the Allagans.

The Matanga and Lupin in particular are not so subtly hinted at being creations in a sidequest in Elpis and a note in Ktsis Hyperboreia respectively.

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You find a journal in one of the dungeons which suggests the Lupin are their creation.

https://chat.google.com/u/0/api/get_...&sz=w1025-h629

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Melorie

Dude, people are still writing Reylo fanfics and creating headcanons till this day, long after the last movie of the new star wars trilogy. If you think that someone passionate about a particular story has an empty life... You're in for a surprise tbh.

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Not surprised at all, I do know alot of ppl have an empty life in fact, I feel like the thread being active is proof enough no? :)

How can we STILL talk about Endwalker??? I mean... it's still going on??? What do you think 6.x is?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Remedi

Not surprised at all, I do know alot of ppl have an empty life in fact, I feel like the thread being active is proof enough no? :)

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Telling people they have an empty life because they enjoy discussing the lore of an universe they're passionate about says more about yourself than them. If you ask me, I would say that the empty - and bitter - person here is probably you, who is clearly bothered with something so small as people discussing lore.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BRVV

How can we STILL talk about Endwalker??? I mean... it's still going on??? What do you think 6.x is?

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Even if it was long gone, people still discuss Lord of the Rings, Dune, Wheel of Time and even non-elaborated stuff such as Harry Potter, make up theories and elaborate their vision of that universe. Shallow people are always surprised when someone actually consumes something (a history or fantastical universe) and feels like elaborating their thoughts about it. They forget not everyone is frivolous like themselves.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Melorie

Shallow people are always surprised when someone actually consumes something

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These kinds of people remind me of when Yoshi P was surprised when he found out that people cared about the story in his story driven MMO. Of course people were invested in the story of a game that is marketed by its own playerbase as one of the best stories around.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kazhar

I don't know why you care so much about people's opinion on Shadowbringers. (Especially here, since it's mostly about 6.0)

You're free to dislike Shadowbringers. It wasn't perfect, and in some ways it started a downward spiral for the story even if it wasn't clear at the time. (Before the usual suspects come arrest me for my crimes against "objectivity/majority", I'm only stating my opinion here). And yes, Stormblood's story, while flawed, did a lot of things right.

Most, but not all, people I know who expressed their dissatisfaction with 6.0's story did like 5.0, but I wouldn't say it's closely related to 6.0's perceived issues.
I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be impressed with Venat, Hermes, Labyrinthos 2.0 and Ultima Thule even if Shadowbringers didn't exist. I wasn't even a big Ancient / Ascian / Zodiark fan before Endwalker. (Ironically the story team's best efforts at making them unsympathetic made them more sympathetic to me)

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Its because just like how you guys feel that EW's story wasnt that good despite its praise, I feel the same way with Shadowbringer's msq (and Heavensward to that extent) where everyone and their mom overly praise it yet Im like the only person who didnt felt like it was this masterpiece of a narrative.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

Its because just like how you guys feel that EW's story wasnt that good despite its praise, I feel the same way with Shadowbringer's msq (and Heavensward to that extent) where everyone and their mom overly praise it yet Im like the only person who didnt felt like it was this masterpiece of a narrative.

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I wouldn't say only one. I was down with a lot of it, but it really lost me on that last patch. For that to be how the expansion ended... well, let's just say it kinda soured the entire thing in my eyes. It had plenty of questionable bits beforehand as well, but I was able to look past them until that. I mean dude, Elidibus suddenly went from big brain to DERP SMASH, AM SUDOKU BY COP for no discernible reason, and Emet-Selch somehow went from being devoted to his people to just, "yeah, cool, I'll free you from the void so you can kill off the last hope of my people." The things we found out in Endwalker only served to exacerbate my already intense dislike of ShB's final patch.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Absimiliard

Emet-Selch somehow went from being devoted to his people to just, "yeah, cool, I'll free you from the void so you can kill off the last hope of my people."

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I liked a lot of 5.3, but this always seemed weird to me. It really seems like it was done for the sake of 'rule of cool', rather than because it made sense for the character to actually do that.