Dragoons: A Rotation Reborn

Overall I am very happy. Although I would have preferred to use my jumps more often not buff my jumps more often.

Now we need the mathematicians to get to get work on the new optimal rotations.

There is a note about Allagan Earrings of Maiming which may effect BiS lists:

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Allagan Earrings of Maiming
Before: STR+13, Accuracy+16, Skill Speed+11
After: STR+13, Accuracy+16, Determination+8

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Originally Posted by LordMaitreya

Overall I am very happy. Although I would have preferred to use my jumps more often not buff my jumps more often.

Now we need the mathematicians to get to get work on the new optimal rotations.

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Basically all of the higher difficulty rotations will remain unchanged in terms of effectiveness.

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Originally Posted by Itseotle

There is a note about Allagan Earrings of Maiming which may effect BiS lists:

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Personally, I like that. I don't want a ton of SS on my DRG, so this makes me happy

Interesting notes, and changes.

Yeah, I would assume the same as what Ayvar said.

Also need to find out the stats on the extreme mode primals accessories for BiS list

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Originally Posted by Ayvar

Basically all of the higher difficulty rotations will remain unchanged in terms of effectiveness.

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Actually, doesn't Fracture have even less of a reason to be used with 2.1? Since Full Thrust is getting buffed, the average potency/action of the standard combo is up and it should be greater than (or at least even closer to) Fracture's total potency. EasyModeX's rotation, which seems to focus on maximizing the number of thrust combos, would be buffed.

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Originally Posted by Mantrus

Actually, doesn't Fracture have even less of a reason to be used with 2.1? Since Full Thrust is getting buffed, the average potency/action of the standard combo is up and it should be greater than (or at least even closer to) Fracture's total potency. EasyModeX's rotation, which seems to focus on maximizing the number of thrust combos, would be buffed.

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The logic behind all of the rotations remains the same no matter the buffs to our abilities. Some are designed for learning, some for long uptime fights, some for fights with lots of interruptions, some for TP conservation, etc. What will affect rotations is whether we are able to clip CTs now, the description of that change wasn't very clear.

Very pleased with the buffs. After them mentioning a buff to DRGs main combo i feared the buff was meant to appease to 1-2-3 spammers, glad they didnt went that route and focussed on buffing positionals, enders and Dots instead, so using the full repertoire is even more essential and rewarding post patch.

Will be nice if DoTs can be clipped. Even less use for Fracture if this is true.

The buffs to Chaos Thrust and Phlebotomize makes dotting multiple targets even more attractive than it already was. You might want to add a section to your guide for dealing with two targets.

Looks like the Extreme Primals will be a new source for i90 accessories.

A good day for Dragoons.

I would have preferred a buff to potency and recast time on jumps than on full thrust....

right now as many other drg at end game I already use jumps on cooldown in most if not all major fights. the animation reduction will increase dps but not as significantly as the buff to full thrust...

Just as a reminder, the Primal accessories are i80, so I really doubt they'll make it to BiS lists for most classes (esp not one with three choices as it is now)

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Originally Posted by PArcher

Just as a reminder, the Primal accessories are i80, so I really doubt they'll make it to BiS lists for most classes (esp not one with three choices as it is now)

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According to the list, Ultima accessories are i80 and the EX Primal accessories are i90.

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Originally Posted by Tanama

According to the list, Ultima accessories are i80 and the EX Primal accessories are i90.

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hmm...I must have read that wrong. OK, then, maybe they will be better. But that means the new Neck and one Ring are out completely (since the Ultima are i80)

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Originally Posted by adahn

I would have preferred a buff to potency and recast time on jumps than on full thrust....

right now as many other drg at end game I already use jumps on cooldown in most if not all major fights. the animation reduction will increase dps but not as significantly as the buff to full thrust...

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Meh, they did buff the potency on pretty much everything else not to mention the 5% increase on all our damage (assuming a good dragoon with heavy thrust always up)

Now you're just being greedy :)

Oh, here's something I'm worried about: how will we time Jump and Power Surge together? Before the CDs on Jump and PS were 40 and 90 seconds respectively, so you could basically use PS on every other Jump. Now that PS is 60 seconds, if you wait every other Jump, you're going to have a lot of wasted time.

I'm not going to like using PS on J, then SSD, then J again, but I might just end up doing that. . . -ridiculous request- let it work on DfD!!!

Sorry if it's already been posted. Allagan Earrings of Maiming is to now replace the Striking for BiS.

Also, is it bad I predicted a buff to Heavy Thrust to 15% all the way back in September?

I don't like the changes to Power Surge to be honest with you... But, I believe there's a now a possibility to throw Spineshatter into our main rotation if the animation lock makes it completely fit within 2s.

Lovin the changes, just have to space out the use of SSD a bit, but all fine otherwise.

Have some fiery times, dragoons <3

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Originally Posted by Dervy

Sorry if it's already been posted. Allagan Earrings of Maiming is to now replace the Striking for BiS.

Also, is it bad I predicted a buff to Heavy Thrust to 15% all the way back in September?

I don't like the changes to Power Surge to be honest with you... But, I believe there's a now a possibility to throw Spineshatter into our main rotation if the animation lock makes it completely fit within 2s.

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Maybe I'm talking out my ass here, but what can we do with the extra accuracy from maiming ear that would make it BiS over striking? The latter still seems a lot better to me.

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Originally Posted by Riotpersona

Maybe I'm talking out my ass here, but what can we do with the extra accuracy from maiming ear that would make it BiS over striking? The latter still seems a lot better to me.

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Allagan Spear is BiS now instead of Gael Bog +1 ("zenith") so you have to make up the 34acc somewhere

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Originally Posted by Sir_Maxwell

Allagan Spear is BiS now instead of Gael Bog +1 ("zenith") so you have to make up the 34acc somewhere

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I was under the impression maiming ear was part of that set regardless, even prior to this recent change.

Allagan Spear doesn't have accuracy iirc and it's almost guaranteed to become BiS once it gets buffed.

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Originally Posted by Mantrus

Oh, here's something I'm worried about: how will we time Jump and Power Surge together? Before the CDs on Jump and PS were 40 and 90 seconds respectively, so you could basically use PS on every other Jump. Now that PS is 60 seconds, if you wait every other Jump, you're going to have a lot of wasted time.

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I posted a few pages back about this but unfortunately it's still better to use PS on every other jump, using it with SSD then jump is actually a dps lose, they basically should of just reduced to 80 seconds lol or reduced jump cd to 30 seconds

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Originally Posted by Riotpersona

I was under the impression maiming ear was part of that set regardless, even prior to this recent change.

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Nope, only maiming accessory was the wrists

http://xivdb.com/?wardrobe/2901/DRG-BiS

PS change seems weird. Would be better off if something would proc a CD reset on the JUMP, but the way it is now, well IDK what its gonna do. Probably not much! :P

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Originally Posted by Sir_Maxwell

Nope, only maiming accessory was the wrists

http://xivdb.com/?wardrobe/2901/DRG-BiS

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I meant that it had been discussed a few pages prior that BIS w/ allagan spear used maiming earrings, even when they had SS instead of determination, but nevermind!

Yay for lazy DRGing! Heavy Thrust, Impulse Drive combo, Thrust combo until time to reapply things.

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Originally Posted by Sir_Maxwell

Ummm HT will be up all the way to at least the VT and even the FT depending on skill speed/game lag (ht falls of timer, but FT was used before it dropped off thus counting as a buffed FT)

As far as rotation, nothing wrong with the ol tried and true

HT - BFB - ID - IR - DIS - SWEEP - CT - PS - phlebotomize - JUMP - TT - SPINE DIVE - VT - life surge - FT - DRAGON DIVE

Not sure how long potions last as I've never really had to use one, but perhaps at the beginning? Any who this burst opener (credit to easymode!) Usually parses 330+ and even hit 380ish with a lucky string of crits

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This rotation, is this just an opening burst? and how should i follow up with it?

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Originally Posted by BrandoH

Yay for lazy DRGing! Heavy Thrust, Impulse Drive combo, Thrust combo until time to reapply things.

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At least put Phlebotomize in there. Its amazing.
And jumps deserve more love, especially post 2.1. No need to be lazy if the reward is that nice.

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Originally Posted by OliverGoon

This rotation, is this just an opening burst? and how should i follow up with it?

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From there, keep up heavy thrust, disembowel, chaos thrust, phlebotomize and use thrusts. offGCD's as they're available unless you need to save them for a mechanic.

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Originally Posted by OliverGoon

This rotation, is this just an opening burst? and how should i follow up with it?

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Pretty much what Peptaru said. But the actual rotation is

HT - IDC - P - TTT
HT - TTT - P - IDC
HT - TTT - P - TTT

As mentioned in previous posts, nobodies sure if we are able to clip Chaos Thrust in the new patch. Also with jump animation being reduced, using them to avoid clipping CT isn't going to work, so you pretty much have to weave in Fracture now. I've been used to using it at the end of every HT cycle when there is 2-3 seconds left on the Heavy Thrust buff, but I'm sure there's a more optimal location for it.

The Eorzea Database has been updated to 2.1. Here's the stats of the new Holy Lance and i95 Allagan Spear:

http://i.imgur.com/fiNDQQC.png

Also, I noticed the Allagan Trousers of Maiming are shown as a blackish color now instead of white.

EDIT:

Ultima Band of Striking - Strength +11 Critical Hit Rate +10 Skill Speed +14
Ultima Choker of Striking - Strength +11 Critical Hit Rate +10 Determination +10

Tremor Earring of Striking - Strength+13 Determination+11 Critical Hit Rate+11
Inferno Bangle of Striking - Strength +13 Accuracy +16 Critical Hit Rate +11
Vortex Ring of Striking - Strength +13 Accuracy +11 Critical Hit Rate +16

Damn you got to it before me. I'm looking through the stuff now on the database. Evidently the accessories from primals are all iLvl 90. Didn't know they'd be that high.

Tremor Earrings of Striking
Inferno Bangle of Striking
Vortex Ring of Striking

I have a question about how these numbers were derived. I believe I am using the same sources:

http://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/commen...hould_upgrade/
http://valk.dancing-mad.com/methodol...amageMechanics

Using the formula provided (for weapon skill, not auto-atk) I made an Excel sheet, and my calculations don't concur with the weights asserted.

Yes, Weapon Damage is #1 and STR is #2. However I believe Skill Speed is better than Crit or DET if you can manage not to drain your TP.

To be continued next post ...

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Originally Posted by Ayvar

The following weights (provided by EasyModeX on page 22) will help you both in choosing how to spend your stat points, and when selecting which piece of gear to wear. Here are the relative stat weightings for Dragoons:

Weapon Damage: 7.54
Strength: 1
Determination: .22
Crit: 0.16
Skill Speed: .146

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First off, Skill Speed is not accounted for in the formula. So the way I compared it was to say that an equivalent % of time must be shaved off by SS in order for it to be on par with the same % of total damage added by Crit or DET since unloading a static amount of damage at a greater frequency means you are increasing your damage in kind. Maybe that's a stretch, but I think it jives as strictly a % comparison.

Using the provided damage formula I plugged in varying values for DET and Crit, and came out to every 10 DET increasing your total damage by about 0.3%, and every 10 Crit increasing by about 0.33%. One important thing I noticed was diminishing returns. The more you add, the less bang for your buck.

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Now comparing SS stat changes with my weapon skill attack rate it came out showing that every 10 SS reduces your recast time by .01 seconds. At base SS this amounts to 0.4% less time spent, already better than Crit or DET. Also, as the recast time decreases that .01 seconds becomes a larger percentage of the total shaved off. So it has the opposite effect of compounding returns.

I think this makes a case for SS being the best lower tier stat. I still focus on Crit first because I don't like the fact that the formula provided takes the average, and if you can crit often enough that may still be best, but I would take SS over DET unless you do a lot of AoE.

With the new accessories, I'll be interested to see how they change our current bis pieces. I believe Tremor earrings are now our top pick, but I think the rings would remain Allagan due to having determination. Though I guess it depends whether you would rather stack crit or det.

One last thought which is that any gains from Skill Speed are only beneficial if the player has the ability to make use of them. If you are not "Johnny on the spot" with your rotation then it may be better to avoid Skill Speed since you'd be squandering the benefits. A good rotation is always first priority, but I have to wonder if as gear continues to advance whether we will see an opportunity to "get past the curve" so to speak for some surprising speed gains. They are reducing animation wait times after all in 2.1. As a DRG with about 460 SS I have never had to worry about TP unless excessively spamming Doom Spike, and then there is always Invigorate. From a TP standpoint DRG might be the only class that could take advantage of this.