Monks very weak. Need rebalance

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Originally Posted by ilJumperMT

Nice spamming of Dragon Kick when it only need to be used every 3 Rotations, like Demolish

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So ... please show us your rotation.

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Originally Posted by ilJumperMT

Nice spamming of Dragon Kick when it only need to be used every 3 Rotations, like Demolish

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Every 3 Rotations? Please do not do that. Dragon Kick falls off if you don't do it every 2nd rotation and you lose your debuff on the target. The first Dragon Kick in the starter rotation is there because it's the highest potency. It won't even apply the debuff on the target until the second Dragon Kick because you're not in Opo-opo form. I should probably edit in that the first Dragon Kick should be Bootshine when you cycle back to the start since I think that's where you're getting the "spamming dragon kick". I'll edit it in a second.

Risbyn thanks for coming to help. When I come in here people don't listen. Onyxys still believes hes gods gift to earth and no one can be better than him when he's blatantly bad. lol his last post is golden.

ps he played a class on tera..a very skill required game.

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Originally Posted by LenLeander

IMO you should be able to use a subpar rotations (keeping the same positioning for example) and still be on par with range DPS. and of course for hardcore like you seem to be blow up the meter when you perform the rotation perfectly...

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You can.

Using DK>Twin>Snap with keeping demolish and ToD/Fracture up as much as possible you can still keep up and even out dps every other class in the game on endgame fights.

Alot of people are posting the max potency rotations but it isn't really that viable in Coil and 1 mistake with those max potency rotations and you lose any gain you get from using them over the simple flank only combo, go fight a dummy fraps it and rewatch while writing down the numbers into a spread sheet, do that for multiple different rotations and you will see that the difference between a flank only rotation, a BS+true + flank rotation, and a rotation using impulse drive is at most about 3-4 dps difference.

So if you want to know what the problem with monk is right now its the fact there isn't enough of a reason to use the max potency rotation because it simply doesn't reward you enough for the extra effort you put in.

Also personally playing monk through every turn of coil i don't use fracture or impulse simply because i take as many defensive cross class abilities as possible, until you have coil fully on farm the defensive cooldowns are far better than the small amount of extra damage you might be able to gain.

Thanks Risbyn for sharing your rotation. I have added Fracture after Demolish and it works really well.

I´ve done Risbyns rotation on a dummy and my dps is 183.

if i dont use dots my dps is 220-230? this must be wrong i think my parse is not counting dot crits or something

my gear is full Dark Light wich relic weapon and my legs are lvl 90

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Originally Posted by Risbyn

Dragon Kick(Flank) -> Twin Snakes(Flank) -> Snap Punch(Flank)

Bootshine(Behind) -> True Strike(Behind) -> Snap Punch(Flank)
Dragon Kick(Flank) -> Twin Snakes(Flank) -> Demolish

Bootshine(Behind) -> True Strike(Behind) -> Snap Punch(Flank)
Dragon Kick(Flank) -> Twin Snakes(Flank) -> Snap Punch(Flank)

Bootshine(Behind) -> True Strike(Behind) -> Demolish
Dragon Kick(Flank) -> Twin Snakes(Flank) -> Snap Punch(Flank)

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As a general observation you do not describe where Touch of Death is in that cycle.


In any case, it's easier if you re-write it as:

BS - TR - DM - TD
DK - TW - SP
BS - TR - SP

DK - TW - DM - FR
BS - TR - SP
DK - TW - SP


In terms of explaining the concepts for folks in general, basically the DK+TW pair and the BS+TR pair alternate in a 1212 fashion. The DM and SP alternate in a 112 fashion. The TD is used every 6 cycles. Injecting FR is a DPS increase, and you can inject it into the same pattern as you use TD. So it makes a convenient cycle.

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Originally Posted by Tribunus

Thanks thats really helpful, I think a lot of people are having trouble with the rotation coupled with the required movement.

Do you not use impulse drive or fracture at all? Would it not be possible to replace true strike with impulse drive? Its much greater potency I feel outweighs the 5% chance to crit.

Or drop true strike and weave in impulse drive between your back to flank movements?

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Using Impulse Drive will not allow you to shift forms and costs you a GCD to move into your next form, not to mention the highest TP cost barring Touch of Death and Touch of Death has a much higher potency. Weaving Impulse Drive means you're not moving into forms to do more Bootshines. Impulse Drive will net you a DPS loss and TP starvation even with Invigorate.
Here, it's easier to see with numbers. Take a very simple rotation with Impulse drive 7 GCDs vs a simple rotation without Impulse Drive but with True Strike. This isn't even counting the True Strike 5% chance to crit.

Bootshine - Impulse Drive - Twin Snakes - Snap Punch
130(195) 180 140 180
Dragon Kick - Twin Snakes - Snap Punch
150 140 180
_______________________________________________
1165 total potency over 7 GCDs

Bootshine - True Strike - Snap Punch
130(195) 150 180
Dragon Kick - Twin Snakes - Snap Punch
150 140 180
Bootshine
130(195)
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1190 total potency over 7 GCDs

Fracture is a different story. If you have enough Skill Speed, you can actually weave this into your rotation and net a DPS gain but at the cost of, again, TP starvation. So I have used Fracture before but didn't want to post it in the actual rotation and have people use it thinking that it's the best way. You'd need to use it smartly. Do not use it in quick fights or any fights that are longer than 5 minutes.

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Originally Posted by JokingCat

I´ve done Risbyns rotation on a dummy and my dps is 183.

if i dont use dots my dps is 220-230? this must be wrong i think my parse is not counting dot crits or something

my gear is full Dark Light wich relic weapon and my legs are lvl 90

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There is a bug with DoTs in the parser. Use 1 ToD and record the numbers and watch your parser tick. I've seen parser DoT on my ToD for 9 damage each tick on the parser before. I've said before, parser results are wildly varying.

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Originally Posted by EasymodeX

As a general observation you do not describe where Touch of Death is in that cycle.


In any case, it's easier if you re-write it as:

BS - TR - DM - TD
DK - TW - SP
BS - TR - SP

DK - TW - DM - FR
BS - TR - SP
DK - TW - SP


In terms of explaining the concepts for folks in general, basically the DK+TW pair and the BS+TR pair alternate in a 1212 fashion. The DM and SP alternate in a 112 fashion. The TD is used every 6 cycles. Injecting FR is a DPS increase, and you can inject it into the same pattern as you use TD. So it makes a convenient cycle.

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Yea, I know, I tried to make the guide as easy as possible to follow. I don't use a rotation for my ToD because you'll come to instances where you'll be clipping your ToD and it will not override it on the chance the first ToD was buffed. That's a wasted GCD, I only apply it when it falls off and use Twin Snakes instead of True Strikes in that rotation so I keep the 10% damage buff. I definately want people using Fracture but use it sparingly because it's such a huge TP sink. When your TP hits 0 (which I've done before because I wasn't paying attention to my Fracture usage) you do no damage and your overall DPS hurt. But it's good for that extra OOMPH you need in a semi-long fight.

That rotation is only a part of my guide, I should probably make a new thread and post the full guide here soon.