Maybe it's time for a casual "strike" if not complete departure.

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Originally Posted by Lilapop

It is regularly said about the FF14 community (the thing you call a monolith) that it's a helpful and friendly community. Aidorouge is saying their experience isn't like that. Where's the generalization?

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Me: "the playerbase is not a monolith"
You: "the thing you call a monolith"
Also you: makes a generalisation that the FF14 community is not helpful and friendly
Also you: "Where's the generalization?"

Very amusing response overall, thank you!

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Originally Posted by AntoniusQuil

imo the simple solution to this issue would be adding more interesting rewards to casual content, when hardcore players are getting all the cool rewards (like mounts, glams and this time even hairstyles) while casual players are getting scraps (you can’t even farm newest alliance raids glam due to the stupid “one item per week limit”), it’s kinda obvious that there are going to be complaints when at most 10% of players have access to the best rewards, while everyone is paying the same amount of money for the game (it’s not a win or lose competition but a service people pay for, so they expect to get good stuff no matter if they are casual or hardcore)

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Just put this logic to any other game. Let's say in Elden Ring you want the Valkyrie set but you cannot beat Malenia, even with friends. You complain loudly on a forum that this optional superboss is too hard and you really want those rewards, then say that people who cannot beat superbosses get scraps. Except FF14 has you, if you can't beat her, but you want her rewards you can grind in-game money and pay for it in gil. So you're not "getting scraps", you have another way of getting them.

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Originally Posted by AntoniusQuil

Tbh the moment rewards hardcore players expected to get from their content (shadow wolf and cruise chaser), ended up in online store instead (still easy to get for them unlike what happens in case of hardcore rewards and casual players) they were complaining much lounger and angrier than I’ve ever seen casual players complain about hardcore rewards.

So I think that hardcore players aren’t really in position to criticise anyone for complaining about rewards not being put where they want them to be.

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TBH I'm not sure what you're talking about. There's the "hardcore" way of getting it (grinding the Chaotic) and there's the "casual" way of getting it (Paying for it in Gil). So you're not being gatekept out of anything

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Originally Posted by Volgia

This argument makes no sense. Getting good enough to beat savages isn't as hard as running in the olympics for your country, it's a leap in logic. You think we're making fun of you for not being able to do challenging content, but we're not, we're making fun of you because you're angry there's any meaningful challenging content at all.

As a metaphor:

You have a large zone that's dedicated to 95% mini-golf courses that people can casually enjoy, but there's a 5% golf course that's made for people who want to slightly challenge themselves, and at the end of these they get cool rewards that they can sell to you, and you're angry because you are unwilling or unable to participate to get those rewards and want to organize a strike and threaten to "Lose a customer" so they stop doing any meaningfully challenging courses at all.

This, despite 95% of the golf courses and rewards made for you.

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I realize you can't remember everyone's views over hundreds of posts, but I'm not personally angry about rewards in the slightest. I am disputing the claim that anyone can do savage content if they simply try hard enough. It isn't true.

The funny thing about the "skill issue" statement, usually used as an intended insult, is that it's often accurate. I do not have the skill to complete savage on-cycle, and there is absolutely nothing I can do about that. Just as there was a limit to how fast I could run the 800, there's a limit to how fast I can process-recall-react in a video game. Why is this hard to understand?

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Originally Posted by Volgia

Just put this logic to any other game. Let's say in Elden Ring you want the Valkyrie set but you cannot beat Malenia, even with friends. You complain loudly on a forum that this optional superboss is too hard and you really want those rewards, then say that people who cannot beat superbosses get scraps. Except FF14 has you, if you can't beat her, but you want her rewards you can grind in-game money and pay for it in gil. So you're not "getting scraps", you have another way of getting them.



TBH I'm not sure what you're talking about. There's the "hardcore" way of getting it (grinding the Chaotic) and there's the "casual" way of getting it (Paying for it in Gil). So you're not being gatekept out of anything

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1. There comes in the big difference between mmos and other games. In Elden Ring you have so many ways to turn Malenia into casual fight : over levelling, spirit ashes, player summonig - some players even do the fight by themselves for their summoners, in the end pretty much everyone is able to beat her without being forced to spent hours or days on learning the fight and being able to play on the high skill level. (Not to even mention games which simply have difficulty settings)

In MMOs on the other hand due to stuff item level sync and other stuff, the only way available for a casual player to get the rewards from hardcore content is to stop being casual and learn to play on the hardcore content level

2. Making the hair style and one mount from chaotic sellable is actually a move in the good direction I’m really happy about. I’m talking about general hardcore vs casual discussion where before chaotic whenever I’ve seen anyone propose making hardcore rewards sellable, it always brought up lots of complaints from hardcore players saying that it will cheapen the rewards and that casual should simply “git gud”

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Originally Posted by AntoniusQuil

the only way available for a casual player to get the rewards from hardcore content is to stop being casual and learn to play on the hardcore content level

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Most of what is considered hardcore can be unsynced in 14. I know in WoW, you just simply outgear / out level previous expansions. Can't really speak to other MMO's.

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Originally Posted by Aidorouge

trimmed.

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If you ever need help running content, do not hesitate to reach out to me. I'm not the best player by any means, but I enjoy helping others. I also do all Jobs on my main, though I'm not that good at healing but am willing to do so if needed. I do MSQ, Normal and Alliance Raids

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Originally Posted by Mawlzy

I realize you can't remember everyone's views over hundreds of posts, but I'm not personally angry about rewards in the slightest. I am disputing the claim that anyone can do savage content if they simply try hard enough. It isn't true.

The funny thing about the "skill issue" statement, usually used as an intended insult, is that it's often accurate. I do not have the skill to complete savage on-cycle, and there is absolutely nothing I can do about that. Just as there was a limit to how fast I could run the 800, there's a limit to how fast I can process-recall-react in a video game. Why is this hard to understand?

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I'll just have to agree to disagree here, because unless you have some disability, extremes and savage mechanics aren't to dissimilar from normal trials and raids. Some of them don't telegraph, some of them have different timings, but it's hard to limit yourself like you would be physically limited to do any physical sport. This is a matter of skill and can be learned.

If you don't want to learn, or find it not worth your time that's completely fine. Also, if you're not angry about these changes then I am not championing you to leave, I want people who demand every reward and every piece of content be tailored to them or else removed to go away. It's a frustrating conversation we've been having for years.

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Originally Posted by Volgia

I'll just have to agree to disagree here, because unless you have some disability, extremes and savage mechanics aren't to dissimilar from normal trials and raids. Some of them don't telegraph, some of them have different timings, but it's hard to limit yourself like you would be physically limited to do any physical sport. This is a matter of skill and can be learned.

If you don't want to learn, or find it not worth your time that's completely fine. Also, if you're not angry about these changes then I am not championing you to leave, I want people who demand every reward and every piece of content be tailored to them or else removed to go away. It's a frustrating conversation we've been having for years.

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Who demands this? Literally who?

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Originally Posted by Sad-Panda

He is turning into Ion Hazzizkostas right before our eyes and we all know how well that ended for WoW.

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That is not the contempt you apparently meant it to be. Ion Hazzikostas still appears to be Game Director for World of Warcraft. And, since there are a lot of posters here who appear to believe that WoW is in a much better place than FFXIV at the moment. Perhaps Naoki Yoshida should continue to "turn into" him?

Also, the numbers from LuckyBancho are meaningless, as Square Enix already has more accurate internal numbers, including revenue numbers. Any decisions will be made on information none of us, including LuckyBancho, will ever see.

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Originally Posted by Sad-Panda

I hate to say this but Yoahi-P is becoming increasingly out of touch with the majority of the player base.
He is turning into Ion Hazzizkostas right before our eyes and we all know how well that ended for WoW.

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Are we talking about the MMORPG that still has around 7 to 8 million active subscribers and just had a very successful expansion launch that players have been very happy with? That WoW? The one that is still headed by one Ion Hazzikostas? That WoW? The game that routinely gives players of all kinds, no matter how casual or hardcore, heaps of things to do every major and minor patch and clear roadmaps of when to expect what? That WoW?

How old is your information on WoW? Because it sounds like you're still on Legion through Shadowlands era talking points.