Eight Fixes to Make These Changes Good.

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Originally Posted by Viridiana

I didn't say from Light Shot plus Multishot plus Trifurcate. I said from Light Shot. You're talking about reducing the damage output (or slowing down) the ranged auto attack. The ranged auto attack is Light Shot. It's not Light Shot plus Trifurcate. It's not Light Shot plus Multishot. It's just Light Shot, plus something like Raging Strike. If that, by itself, pulls aggro, your tank is incompetent and needs to learn how to play his class. If you're going to keep trying to mix 1.19 abilities into your arguments for 1.20, you need to stop being disingenuous. . .

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You realize you are basically arguing in favor of nerfing archer right? Gaining Auto-attack, means loosing all of the abilities that made the previous Manual attack so powerful. By loosing all of those skills in favor of auto-attack you are Taking a significant hit to your DPS.

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Originally Posted by Kiote

That's a good point I hadn't considered. So now, if you want to use a buff without attacking the enemy you have to Untarget the Enemy, Target yourself, lock in, use your buff, untarget yourself, target your enemy then perform whatever action you wanted. At least melee only have to back up..

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Actually, you only have to target yourself, buff, then target the enemy. Alternately, you can untarget the enemy, buff (thereby automatically targeting yourself), then target the enemy. You added three unnecessary steps. Also, if you're in a party and near max range, backing up will work just as well for ARC as it will for melee, meaning you added five unnecessary steps.

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Originally Posted by Kiote

It's not a reasonable solution because Auto-Attack initiates when you target your opponent. That means, to stop attack you will have to Untarget the enemy, do whatever it is you need to do, then retarget your enemy to begin fighting again. The other solution is put away your weapon. The short time that either of those actions take will make you gimped as a Damage dealer. Your role will be officially be restricted to pulling and buffing.

Have you even considered what this is going to do to your ammo consumption? Or are you one of those people who thinks the magic infinite quiver should be implemented to?

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Firstly, you can target the enemy regardless of whether u are engaged or not. All you do it hit escape, then you get the little circle target (and you aren't engaged) then you hit enter and you engage and the target symbol changes. This gives you full control over your auto attack without untargeting the enemy. If you're concerned about ammo consumption I suggest you play another class. The guys in FFXI who played COR without ranged attacking were useless as hell, I feel the same way about people like you playing ARC/BRD.

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Originally Posted by Kiote

You realize you are basically arguing in favor of nerfing archer right? Gaining Auto-attack, means loosing all of the abilities that made the previous Manual attack so powerful. By loosing all of those skills in favor of auto-attack you are Taking a significant hit to your DPS.

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Gaining auto attack means losing the abilities that made manual attacking so spiky. If anything, they can buff the damage done by the individual shots, because Multishot and Trifurcate were essentially haste effects, and we all know haste is an extremely powerful stat. Granted, our attacks will no longer be subject to operator-induced delays, either, so that might balance out.

Essentially, though, I'd say that Light Shot/Multishot/Trifurcate should never have been such a major component of ARC damage to start with. If these changes mean that ARC weapon skills become more prominent without nerfing ARC damage overall, I'm all for it.

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Originally Posted by Viridiana

Granted, our attacks will no longer be subject to operator-induced delays, either, so that might balance out.

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I think nobody is really paying attention to how important this is. With all the complaints of server lag, messed up recast timers and the like, this is going to eliminate not firing on time because of lag or other operator-induced errors. In turn, this is even going to INCREASE your DPS over time.

There is no reason for them to gimp damage OR attack speed, considering you WILL NOT pull hate with auto attacks alone unless your tank is straight up incompetent.

And really you could argue that all jobs are losing out on skills that make manually attacking important. If GLA loses Light Stab, Heavy Slash and Heavy Stab, is that not three TP generating abilities lost that further reduce GLA DPS? (Not saying GLA is a DD class, just using it's skills as an example.)

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Originally Posted by Alerith

I think nobody is really paying attention to how important this is. With all the complaints of server lag, messed up recast timers and the like, this is going to eliminate not firing on time because of lag or other operator-induced errors. In turn, this is even going to INCREASE your DPS over time.

There is no reason for them to gimp damage OR attack speed, considering you WILL NOT pull hate with auto attacks alone unless your tank is straight up incompetent.

And really you could argue that all jobs are losing out on skills that make manually attacking important. If GLA loses Light Stab, Heavy Slash and Heavy Stab, is that not three TP generating abilities lost that further reduce GLA DPS? (Not saying GLA is a DD class, just using it's skills as an example.)

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Did you really just argue that Making Archer weaker is ok because they are making everyone weaker? It's bad enough that, ranger aside, everyone basic attack were already severely gimped in 1.19. I can understand making basic attacks significantly weaker than weapons skills, but there is no reason for certain classes having a hard time breaking 25 damage. Archer was fun because you could put out large quantities of damage at will without being locked into the fight to keep up your damage. Now, instead of doing Large amounts of strategic damage Archers will have to stand around and wait for their weapon skills like everyone else.

Lower Damage and Less engaging combat is not better in my opinion.

As far as the server lag is concerned, your not looking at the big picture. When the server lag is fixed, that point will be moot. At that time you will have sacrificed a fun and engaging class for something that is on par or worse than everything else. An Archer you can watch fight.

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Originally Posted by Kiote

As far as the server lag is concerned, your not looking at the big picture. When the server lag is fixed, that point will be moot. At that time you will have sacrificed a fun and engaging class for something that is on par or worse than everything else. An Archer you can watch fight.

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No, it won't be moot. Auto attack continues along at the same pace regardless of the player's latency or reaction time. That's easily adding up to half of a second every three seconds or so. So, no, you'll've traded manual control for increased damage. I also don't know where you're getting this idea that it'll lower damage. But, then, you never responded to my last post, either. . .

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Originally Posted by Kiote

Did you really just argue that Making Archer weaker is ok because they are making everyone weaker? It's bad enough that, ranger aside, everyone basic attack were already severely gimped in 1.19. I can understand making basic attacks significantly weaker than weapons skills, but there is no reason for certain classes having a hard time breaking 25 damage. Archer was fun because you could put out large quantities of damage at will without being locked into the fight to keep up your damage. Now, instead of doing Large amounts of strategic damage Archers will have to stand around and wait for their weapon skills like everyone else.

Lower Damage and Less engaging combat is not better in my opinion.

As far as the server lag is concerned, your not looking at the big picture. When the server lag is fixed, that point will be moot. At that time you will have sacrificed a fun and engaging class for something that is on par or worse than everything else. An Archer you can watch fight.

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I apologize. I didn't realize you had poor reading comprehension. I said that it's happening to other jobs, and that any of them could argue their DPS is being lowered. But you don't see those classes raging. I specifically stated that they do NOT need to gimp ARC damage OR attack speed by switching to auto-attack because archer auto-attack damage would not break the job or the enmity table. Auto attack is doing nothing to hurt the job.

And really, if you can't still be strategic with auto-attack, you're a pathetic excuse for a DD.

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Originally Posted by Viridiana

No, it won't be moot. Auto attack continues along at the same pace regardless of the player's latency or reaction time. That's easily adding up to half of a second every three seconds or so. So, no, you'll've traded manual control for increased damage. I also don't know where you're getting this idea that it'll lower damage. But, then, you never responded to my last post, either. . .

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SO, now your defense of Auto-Attack is that it makes being an Archer easier? We must be world apart about what makes a game good. I personally do not need the game to do it for me. I like there to be a little Skill involved in my game play. Archer was the last DD in the game that offer real player dependent skill. It required the user to moderate there damage and time there attacks. What you are advocating is watching your TP bar fill up and hitting a weapon skill. You are advocating the removal of skill, class uniqueness, engaging combat, and Potency. You would sacrifice all of that so that your class isn't to hard?

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Originally Posted by Kiote

SO, now your defense of Auto-Attack is that it makes being an Archer easier? We must be world apart about what makes a game good. I personally do not need the game to do it for me. I like there to be a little Skill involved in my game play. Archer was the last DD in the game that offer real player dependent skill. It required the user to moderate there damage and time there attacks. What you are advocating is watching your TP bar fill up and hitting a weapon skill. You are advocating the removal of skill, class uniqueness, engaging combat, and Potency. You would sacrifice all of that so that your class isn't to hard?

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She isn't saying it's easier. She's saying it's more efficient. Efficiency is something ARC lacks right now. Your argument of being moderate with damage and timing attacks went out the window when ARC was brought down in the last patch. Also, you can't argue engaging combat until we see how ARC fits in with the combo system. As stated earlier, ARC lost a lot of it's potency during it's nerf. The class is still unique since it's our only ranged class at the moment. And honestly, if your skill goes out the window because of auto attack, you didn't have skill to begin with.