AF+1 Costs WAY Too Much

Who says you have to get AF+1?

Look AF+1 is basically free raid-level gear. It has to take a long time, otherwise there is *no* point in doing raids. Its there for ppl who really don't want to run coil of bahamut a billion times for lucky drops. If you don't want to spend 5 months on AF+1 you dont have to; just go to coil of bahamut and get your raid set that way. The two sets are equal in terms of item level.

SE *wants* ppl to run the raids. But there are inevitably ppl who do not have the time/desire to raid and compete for drops. In that case, you have the option of doing dungeons and getting a guaranteed raid level set just by playing the dungeons you *do* want to do.

Powergamers should be going for Allagan. If you're powergaming and trying to go for AF+1 you are doing it way way way wrong. AF+1 is so casual gamers can get geared too. The fastest way to raid gear is to spam raids for drops, not spam dungeons for AF+1.

I'm sure they'll tone it down if they realise it takes too long.

It's also silly to judge seeing as two more end game raids are coming really soon, and might offer a different way to get the currency.

Well look on the bright side. The gear requires MORE weeks of grind per slot than it does in World of Warcraft :) The weekly token limit in WoW lets you get at a chest piece in the 2nd week of raid/heroic grind, takes 3 in ARR, unless they reduced it by now.

I agree tho, to gear up all your classes in AF2 (if you even want to do that), 3 years is quite a bit too long. It will all be replaced in an expansion a year or so after release, or maybe even a content patch prior to that. What it does do tho is make you focus on one job, which I think that is Yoshida's desire.

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Originally Posted by Sidious

And your proposed alternative is let people get what they want in a few weeks and then unsub because there's nothing to do?

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Originally Posted by Lux_Rayna

It has to take a long time, otherwise there is *no* point in doing raids.

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First, I never said anything about getting the entire set "in a few weeks." Five months is insane. For a game with each character able to level every job, half that time is on the high side. A month per set is reasonable, and somewhere between 1-2 months is possibly doable.

In other words:
9 jobs x 1 month/set = 9 months just for the tomestones for AF+1
+ two weeks to level each job to 50 ((2 x 9 = 18 weeks)/4 weeks in an avg month = 4.5 months) <<this is not taking into account the no-lifers that clear in a few days because.. no job, no life, etc.
+ one week for each job to get HM primal weapons, clear relic weapon quest, etc. (9 weeks total, or 2.25 months)
= 9 months + 4.5 months + 2.25 months
= 15.75 months to clear all DoM and DoW content, does not include any gil farming and/or DoL/DoH work
= total ~1.25 year to clear basic release content

So, what you're saying is that nearly 16 months worth of release content is insufficient? It needs to take literally years to complete just that?

C'mon. Get real.

In either case, you both have made 2 points abundantly clear in your posts:

1) You only play the game for the gear, meaning you apparently derive no value from it aside from bragging rights... which is um... wow. So I guess once you've maxed a single gear set you'll have no incentive to play any raids simply because they're a *fun* challenge and will QQ because you don't at all enjoy the actual gameplay or the community.

2) You only have intention of leveling 1 job, despite one of the major selling points for the game being the armory system. Which is also... um... wow.

Honestly getting the levels and gear should be the start of the game, not the end of it.

Why are you posting stuff like this, OP ?! Its useless. There are actually people with Relics +1 already, and you and the other who support you... LOL 5 months to get a relic+1 ? People got it in two weeks.
/cheer

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Originally Posted by Synthesis

Why are you posting stuff like this, OP ?! Its useless. There are actually people with Relics +1 already, and you and the other who support you... LOL 5 months to get a relic+1 ? People got it in two weeks.
/cheer

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Did you read the post? I'm talking about the entire set of AF+1 and Relic+1. Please pay attention before wasting a post, though I guess I do appreciate the bump.

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Originally Posted by Synthesis

Why are you posting stuff like this, OP ?! Its useless. There are actually people with Relics +1 already, and you and the other who support you... LOL 5 months to get a relic+1 ? People got it in two weeks.
/cheer

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He didn't say 5 months for JUST relic+1. Relic+1 plus AF+1 plus jewelry. Read.


Also, Considering the "One character does all" aspect, in other games where you do only one class, but would have multiple alts (if thats your thing) the weekly caps would of course be separate for each character. In XIV, that cap unless you are doing the alt thing, which "one character all classses" doesn't really promote, your cap is shared.

Of course this could be one reason they give us to make alts, but that would defeat the purpose of being able to do it all on one character.

Tl;dr

AF+1 is the highest tier, end-game gear that surpass the upcoming Crystal Tower raid drop (iLvl 80). They make a block here because you are not supposed to skip through would-be-future content, otherwise Crystal Tower is dead upon arrival. iLvl 80? Hah, people are already farming iLvl 90.

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Originally Posted by MariyaShidou

Tl;dr

AF+1 is the highest tier, end-game gear that surpass the upcoming Crystal Tower raid drop (iLvl 80). They make a block here because you are not supposed to skip through would-be-future content, otherwise Crystal Tower is dead upon arrival. iLvl 80? Hah, people are already farming iLvl 90.

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Source on the ilvl80 from crystal tower?

And if it is I wouldn't be surprised. SE is infamous for piss poor balancing. They'd release Ilvl90 8 man content, then ilvl80 24m content, then next would probably be an ilvl70 24m content.

you can add as much dungeon that allow to farm the tomes, the trouble is the limit of the total needed.

when new content with better gear is released, it should be simple to raise the cap and allow the previous gear to be gotten at an increased rate

Play any class on one character

>>Never gear a second class

Yes it will take 5 months of nothing but AK. Yea, lets forget the fact that Crystal Tower is coming out which will most likely give ToM. Oh and the fact that hard mode dungeons are coming , 2 next patch to give more things to run, 5 months down the line there will be even more instances, oh but yea AK for 5 months is what the game comes down to.

Excessive use of memes aside. I think you're missing the point somewhat. Endgame is suppose to be a time sink, all MMO's are like that.
Also uh.. I doubt that in five months time we'll still only have AK as a dungeon to run for this stuff.. They're releasing more dungeons as time goes by, not to mention raising the level cap at some point. The game for all intents and purposes, isn't finished. While yes there's not a lot else to do right NOW, the game hasn't even been out a month yet.. the fact we already are capable of making the progress we have is kinda insane by MMO standards. Just wait and see what else they release in the coming months. I'm positive we'll be seeing more ways to get tomestones.

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Originally Posted by Tobalito

Yes it will take 5 months of nothing but AK. Yea, lets forget the fact that Crystal Tower is coming out which will most likely give ToM. Oh and the fact that hard mode dungeons are coming , 2 next patch to give more things to run, 5 months down the line there will be even more instances, oh but yea AK for 5 months is what the game comes down to.

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AK for 2 months, content 10 levels below current content for unknown number of months.

And that's only if they manage to stay on schedule...lol.

did you include the 900 mythology stones it takes to +1 the matching relic weapon for each class?

the limited source and weekly max allowed on something you need for pretty much everything is kind of blah

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Originally Posted by Lux_Rayna

AF+1 is so casual gamers can get geared too.

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There's nothing casual about this requirement. Five months isn't a grind, it's a sentence. I like the AF sets because I want to look like a White Mage. God help me if I decide to play Scholar too!

If I do something full time for five months I'd better either be getting paid, or having fun. This is neither.

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Originally Posted by Tobalito

Yes it will take 5 months of nothing but AK. Yea, lets forget the fact that Crystal Tower is coming out which will most likely give ToM. Oh and the fact that hard mode dungeons are coming , 2 next patch to give more things to run, 5 months down the line there will be even more instances, oh but yea AK for 5 months is what the game comes down to.

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They can give more things to run, but still limited to 300 mythologies a week. I would think differently if the armor they give for it were multi class/job usabe like the stuff you get out of winding coils, but thats only the jewelry. Getting mythology armor means getting something for 1 job. It is a way to turn a "do all classes game" into a "you really only have 1 good class" game, unless you skipped to winding coils (which is apparently not that hard - just practice).

Imo they broke things (as usuabl) by having winding coils drop ilvl90. Should have been ilvl80, and crystal tower for 90. jimo. Would give more meaning to the long grind for af2/relic+1 from tokens as well.

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Originally Posted by Churchill

Play any class on one character

>>Never gear a second class

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This I believe is what they are aiming for.

The way I see it, they're meant to supplement your Crystal Tower and Coil loot. That way you can get at least something if you're unlucky with the drops, and you can maybe progress just a tad faster with the extra piece of gear.

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Originally Posted by Reika

Source on the ilvl80 from crystal tower?

And if it is I wouldn't be surprised. SE is infamous for piss poor balancing. They'd release Ilvl90 8 man content, then ilvl80 24m content, then next would probably be an ilvl70 24m content.

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Crystal Tower was supposed to be available at realease and it really is meant to be done before Coil, but it got pushed back for DF balancing reasons, if I'm not mistaken.

This game is super easy. If you played XI then you'd probably think things need to be far more difficult to obtain than they currently are.

If you have the time, do more different things rather than just 8 Amdapor runs a week. If you don't, then it's up to you how to spend your time. You can't tell me that people who work (like myself at 56 hours a week) can't go bash out 8 Amdapor runs on a single day off. People making out like doing 8 runs a week is difficult or super time consuming.. Really..

There's nothing wrong with taking time to get something, in fact, I think it's balanced quite well for casuals and hard cores. Go run coil if you want more ilvl 90 gear right nao!!

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Originally Posted by Buddhsie

If you have the time, do more different things rather than just 8 Amdapor runs a week. If you don't, then it's up to you how to spend your time. You can't tell me that people who work (like myself at 56 hours a week) can't go bash out 8 Amdapor runs on a single day off. People making out like doing 8 runs a week is difficult or super time consuming.. Really..

There's nothing wrong with taking time to get something, in fact, I think it's balanced quite well for casuals and hard cores. Go run coil if you want more ilvl 90 gear right nao!!

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I don't think anyone is against the grind or this kind of thing taking a while. The problem is this particular grind is a tad excessive. For a game that promotes playing more than one class it's a little insane to require five months to grind out a gear set for just one of them. That's crazy even by SE's standards.

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Originally Posted by Sol_Aureus

Getting the best gear in the game takes time and effort?! OH NO!

ಠ_ಠ

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This ^

People these days expect to start up a game and have everything handed to them, it's pretty sad. Working for stuff actually feels like an accomplishment when you finally get it. That's how getting a relic feels to me too :/ I literally started my relic, got all the way to the end in 1 day. 1 day for the best weapon thats out now? What kind of crap is that?

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Originally Posted by ElHeggunte

I don't think anyone is against the grind or this kind of thing taking a while. The problem is this particular grind is a tad excessive. For a game that promotes playing more than one class it's a little insane to require five months to grind out a gear set for just one of them. That's crazy even by SE's standards.

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The point I'm making is that it's not really a grind. Sure, it takes a long time, but it's not a lot of work and there are plenty of other things to do in between. There's also other methods of obtaining items of equal usefulness.

I'd say that the whole point of the tomestones is to tide people over every now and then while they work on getting gear through other more difficult methods.

MMO's should take time, that what the MMO's in the last 5 years did wrong the gave you gear to fast.

I think the biggest problem here is that we only have AK to run right now, so it feels really Grindy. If SE would hurry up and release "HARD MODE" for all dungeons we can have variety.

Yoshida also said that an option would be in Place that if you run random dungeon on duty finder youll get extra tombstones.

So yeah you wont need to run AK for 5 months.


Hurry SE! You want people to subscribe right?!

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Originally Posted by Tobalito

Yes it will take 5 months of nothing but AK. Yea, lets forget the fact that Crystal Tower is coming out which will most likely give ToM. Oh and the fact that hard mode dungeons are coming , 2 next patch to give more things to run, 5 months down the line there will be even more instances, oh but yea AK for 5 months is what the game comes down to.

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I haven't heard anything suggesting crystal will give tomes more efficiently than AK. Do you have a source you'd like to share? Cite it or it didn't happen.

Who is forcing u to run keep only? All dungeons above 40 rewards you tomes.

Its up to you if you want to force feed or go play other dungeons.

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Originally Posted by Winzhi

Who is forcing u to run keep only? All dungeons above 40 rewards you tomes.

Its up to you if you want to force feed or go play other dungeons.

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That's like saying fire trucks are a frivolous use of public funds because buckets are available.

There is ilvl 90 gear from Coil of Bahamut that you can use too to supplement af2 gear.

You are looking at the issue the wrong way.

The way you present this, endgame in FFXIV consists of running AK over and over again... wrong!

The usual progression would have the Crystal tower between AK and coil of bahamut, this is where I'm expecting to see gears with iLVL 80 (higher than DL but lower than relic armor and allegan armor). They took off crystal tower at release for balancing issues.

Now think of it this way: you are not supposed to be skipping from iLVL 70 items to iLVL 90 items without a hell of a grind, because normally you would have to go through getting iLVL 80 gears, and then farm the coil using that iLVL 80 gears with some of the iLVL 90 gears you bought with myth points to farm for allegan armor, that is, for most parts, superior to relic armor (myth set).

You ARE NOT farming AK for the best gear of the game, if you want the best gear of the game, you will get it farming coil of bahamut, AK is there to help you get some iLVL 90 gear with an easier dungeon, meaning that you will probably have some parts that will be better than darklight to farm it, which is welcome, since we don't have access to CT's iLVL 80 gears.

OP assumes SE will keep this the way it is until the end of time. Big assumption.

Maybe they have it this way now so people don't no life their way into AF+1 Gear a month after release.

You know people would do this if possible...

like this game is not easy enough to get stuff...

This game is EASY compared to many MMOs please don't make it easier. I come from Lineage II it took me 2 years to reach max level!! That's right 2 years just to reach endgame. Yes obviously this was on the official servers, private servers had much higher XP rates.

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Originally Posted by GilbertLapine

Stuff

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You do realize that if you intend to stuff all your classes in AF+1 with only AK runs, you're doing it completely wrong, do you?

BCoB gives mythological tomestones, and more than AK. Crystal Tower, which is announced to be released in 2.1 (so expected in november) will most probably give mythological tomestones, and in greater quantity than AK. There will also be new dungeons in 2.1 (yes, it was announced by Yoshida), which will most probably give myth. tomestones too.

And that is without taking into account that expecting to be fully geared with the best stuff in less than 5 months is ridiculous.

5 months to get the 3rd highest set IS ridiculous. When Crystal Tower comes out in 2 months with ilvl 80 gear wtf will the point of AR+1 gear even be?

The problem is not that you have to farm AK, the problem is the weekly mythology cap is too low relative to the price of the equipment.

And you actually think that in 3years the only way to get good myth is AK? thats funny

1 dungeon to grind for 5 months. Yeah, that's not a difficulty issue, that's a lack of content issue.

But, I'm amused that the new generation of MMO players have started equating tedium and monotony to difficulty.

Your not going to maintain subs from non-raiders if you only give them 1 dungeon to run.

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Originally Posted by GilbertLapine

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I believe that all the casual players who has been whining from day 1 (the majority) to put more content, easier and more convenient systems in place in order for this game to succeed doesn't really know what they want because they now play the role of what they claim they wasn't. Which is hardcore rushing gamers.

Man, I'm 1 month into the game soon, I have been here since the dawn of this game.
I stick with it even though SE went for the WOW model, this doesn't mean I don't have a patience meter. But this constant mass whining once something grand takes time really makes me wonder, what the hell are you even doing playing an MMO if you sit there and calculate how long time it takes.

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Originally Posted by KerenRhys

You do realize that if you intend to stuff all your classes in AF+1 with only AK runs, you're doing it completely wrong, do you?
BCoB gives mythological tomestones, and more than AK. Crystal Tower, which is announced to be released in 2.1 (so expected in november) will most probably give mythological tomestones, and in greater quantity than AK. There will also be new dungeons in 2.1 (yes, it was announced by Yoshida), which will most probably give myth. tomestones too.

And that is without taking into account that expecting to be fully geared with the best stuff in less than 5 months is ridiculous.

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5 months is a pretty valid assumption of a patch cycle. Expecting to be fully geared on ONE class only within 5 months is well and truly within reason, particularly since that completely precludes you gearing ANY other DoW/M in the meantime.


Ultimately, all the people who are saying "do you think it's unreasonable to take 5 months to gear up" are missing the bigger picture; the fact that it takes 5 months through shear lockouts alone causes a massive issue when it comes to gearing and playing alts. Basically, we have clashes of two vantage points to the same type of game. We have a system of jobs where every job is bound to the same character and lockouts, meaning that only one class can benefit from said lockouts. Down the track when there are alternate equally viable gearing paths to ToM it will be less of a problem, but only because that will render ToM worthless.

The OP is 100% correct, and that is why I am waiting for said content to be released before I go hard for progression. It is no mark of pride to be willing to run the same dungeon 56 times in a week to gear up in darklight for bahamut's coil - it's a mark of lunacy. I got halfway through gearing my pally before I thought to myself "what the heck is going on here, this can't be right", and went to research where the missing content is.

Ill be spending the time until the real progression cycle commences leveling up multiple roles so that when the content is actually released in a fashion that doesn't require insane grinding is released, I'll be ready for it in every context.

even if you had 10 dungeon where you get the tomes, the trouble will still be there 5 month for get the whole set... when in the same time, if you have a good fc you will be in full allagan from bahamut, and in less of 5 month.