AFK Leveling

Prefer not to spread in forum lol... i will PM you

There's no way to "fix" this without penalizing legitimate players too and I find that to be an unacceptable solution. If you know who these players are simply don't play with them. I've seen parties before that start with "If I see you on auto-follow you're going to be ousted". All these people will have are the numbers and no skill to go with it.

No matter what they do people will do this regardless. Yes it's just as lazy and stupid as botting but they will do it either way. I'm not defending them but I'd really rather not see legitimate players inconvenienced in any way by SE trying to stop this.

Couldn't SE just add something like the old system with the current system where people who do stuff in the party get skill points and experience points per action in addition to the set skill and experience points at the end of the kill? That way those auto-follow leeches do not get as much skill and experience as those who are working hard and left behind in ranks eventually. I do kinda miss the fact that the most skill I can get off a normal mob is no longer 500 points.

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Originally Posted by Hotohori

Couldn't SE just add something like the old system with the current system where people who do stuff in the party get skill points and experience points per action in addition to the set skill and experience points at the end of the kill? That way those auto-follow leeches do not get as much skill and experience as those who are working hard and left behind in ranks eventually. I do kinda miss the fact that the most skill I can get off a normal mob is no longer 500 points.

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Then players will be forced again to not play as they see fit but instead spam 1(or just use auto attack?) to prolong fights as much as possible. That will still bring up the same problems as the last time. The best thing to do is just kick people or be the sucker allowing them to leech.

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Originally Posted by Akumu

Then players will be forced again to not play as they see fit but instead spam 1(or just use auto attack?) to prolong fights as much as possible. That will still bring up the same problems as the last time. The best thing to do is just kick people or be the sucker allowing them to leech.

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Hmm not really, the problem before was mostly the rate which actions capped the max skill points was poorly balanced and there were no other forms of skill gain. If the monster can give you say 200 skill points max easily from actions and another 200 for the kill, I don't think people will bother to hold every monster alive just to make that 400 skill points over grinding them out normally for a quick 300 or so total from just the regular fighting.

It's a bad system either way Hotohori and it's punishing legitimate players for the few afk idiots. Not an acceptable solution.

Since it's a bonus, wouldn't it be a way to reward legitimate players for playing instead of being afk in party? I didn't say the process of that extra skill for actions should be as difficult as it was at the release of the game.

The only people whining and defending AFK leeching are just do it themselves, you can justified your actions anyway you like the community is only going to see you as a AFK leecher.

Since people are getting confused or don't understand what this topic is about I'm going to spell it out for you.

Multiboxing does not violate the ToS.

Botting violates the ToS and botting is running a macro or a script that lets you gain sp while not at your screen.

AFK leeching is does not violate the ToS but it lets you gain sp while not at your screen. Which means it produces the same effect as botting.

Not mingling yourselves with AFK leechers, because you disapprove of their methods, would mean that those players would have to use methods that doesn't require other players to get the full effect of the game, hence multiboxing.

Well all I can hope for is that the future dungeons when released will be so hard that there will be no room for absent minded players in the party if the run is to be successful. If they are challenging enough for a solid group of 8, the players who lack the play skills from ranking up while away will not be up to par to complete the dungeons like so and end up unable to win as part of any group.

I agree, I think true difficulty is the only real fix. However they'll still likely AFK level, just not in the most optimal ways. Even if they have to fight monsters for 50 SP each, as long as it's easy they'll do it.

It will happen in one shape or form regardless of the inane limitations put on the players at the end of the day.

Solutions

1. If they are in your party kick them
2. Ignore them becuase they are not effecting your gameplay in any way and there is nothing in the ToS that sais you can't /autofollow a person and have them fight for you.

Happens in everygame, it clearly shows at the end of the day who leveled without playing there job and who did. Hell it happened in XI all the time. "Level me guys I'm bringing my PL to cast cure V every 2 minutes! Lulz" and people ate it up. bringing in arbitrary limitations to the normal user is just punishing us in the end.

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Originally Posted by Mini_M

The only people whining and defending AFK leeching are just do it themselves, you can justified your actions anyway you like the community is only going to see you as a AFK leecher.

Since people are getting confused or don't understand what this topic is about I'm going to spell it out for you.

Multiboxing does not violate the ToS.

Botting violates the ToS and botting is running a macro or a script that lets you gain sp while not at your screen.

AFK leeching is does not violate the ToS but it lets you gain sp while not at your screen. Which means it produces the same effect as botting.

Not mingling yourselves with AFK leechers, because you disapprove of their methods, would mean that those players would have to use methods that doesn't require other players to get the full effect of the game, hence multiboxing.

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Who exactly is defending them? I think every post here is against afk leechers. However, the community(or atleast the majority posting here) knows that if someone is leeching then kick him/her out of the party. If you are allowing him/her to do it then you are being a sucker and can only blame yourself.

You are making such a big deal out of such an easily fixed problem that doesn't require SE to balance anything else.
People multibox...Who cares? That will be their money spent. How can SE stop this? What if someone gets on their wife's cpu and multibox so what then? SE will find and ban them? Seriously any company going this far is setting themselves up for failure and throwing resources out the window.

I repeat. STOP ALLOWING PEOPLE TO AFK LEECH OFF OF YOUR PARTY. YOU ONLY HAVE YOURSELF TO BLAME.

You know what's funny about this thread?

Once upon a time, you had to actually do actions to receive SP.

People cried. This is what remains.

Keep on crying.

I don't see why people are getting offended when I mentioned multiboxing, never did I once say multiboxing is wrong and if someone multiboxes its not my problem.

You see in a situation where people are AFK leeching you can always leave those people, kick them out, etc. Those people you have kicked out of your party obviously are going to need a secondary method to get more people to party with so they have to multibox.

Being AFK while gaining SP is the real problem here regardless of how they do it, whether it be botting, AFK leeching in a party with other players or multiboxing. Gaining SP while AFK has always been looked down upon in any MMO, why should some players get an advantage over others because of a flawed game mechanic.

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Originally Posted by Mini_M

I don't see why people are getting offended when I mentioned multiboxing, never did I once say multiboxing is wrong and if someone multiboxes its not my problem.

You see in a situation where people are AFK leeching you can always leave those people, kick them out, etc. Those people you have kicked out of your party obviously are going to need a secondary method to get more people to party with so they have to multibox.

Being AFK while gaining SP is the real problem here regardless of how they do it, whether it be botting, AFK leeching in a party with other players or multiboxing. Gaining SP while AFK has always been looked down upon in any MMO, why should some players get an advantage over others because of a flawed game mechanic.

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What's the difference between multi-box and not, though?

I mean what are you saying is the problem? Four LS members agree to level as a static. They take turns hooking on to 1 player and letting him run leves with full link while they DL porn. Who cares? What's the difference between that and me playing 4 characters by myself? It's consensual and it doesn't concern anyone else.

Edit:
I mean if you're talking about some stranger (such as in Behest) just following the group without pulling out their weapon ... can't you just kick that person or not invite them next time? I know that's how I deal with that situation. It's something you can control when it affects you personally.

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Originally Posted by Mini_M

This is to the Devs. AFK leveling is ruining the game, SP parties are so easy that a person can just latch on and not do a thing and gain SP. Whether the party is a grinding party or leve linking party people are getting SP while not at their computer screen. This is happening because party members do not have to pull their own weight in parties and this makes this kind of situation possible. This is pretty much botting with a safety net. Archers can rank from 1-50 without shooting a single arrow, gladiators can hit 50 wearing a weathered sword and shield in their underwear.

Yes AFK leveling is a effective method of gaining SP because every knows you only need 4-5 active members to effectively kill anything that is worth good SP. For example in a r40-45 leve linking party doing Ranine Reveries in which the SP is capped at 3-4 star rating only 5 of those 8 members have to be active for the party to complete the leve which leaves 3 spots open for AFK leechers and such but regardless of who did what everyone gains the same SP.

Yes there are people out there doing this, and a solution to this would be a new method of SP distribution to party members.

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something like that? lol

http://i461.photobucket.com/albums/q...1298656210.jpg

dual boxing to help yourself on the occasion like use 1 single char (dual boxed) to help yourself or your pt, yes I don't see any problem with that. However that, see screen, it's complete abuse. Why even bother playing if it's to get your chars p-leveled?

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Originally Posted by Ragz

Prefer not to spread in forum lol... i will PM you

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lol, because you know you're doing something wrong perhaps? manipulation for the dummies, if you know you're wrong and the debat is public, take the person apart and try to talk that person tru your view until he/she agrees.

EDIT:

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Originally Posted by Ragz

LOL this is so inaccurate. We only have 1 person fighting and 5-6 in tow, and take shifts. It's called teamwork.

The difference is this is not against user agreement and botting is. Unlike most LS we take botting very seriously, and have banned multiple people for botting.

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Teamwork? That's teamwork for the lazy.
Before even bothering to answer, send me a 30 pages dissertation on the notion of hypocrisy. You gotta be kidding me. Fabul is really something LOL.

@ mini,
did it ever accure to you, your being like those naighbors who pry in other peoples stuff? Who really gives you any right to really ask what your asking? Are you going to all these players houses and seeing them purposely leech? Honestly no one here knows the full story on why people need to go afk and end up leeching. But assuming the worst is getting out of hand. It is tiring that these petty flame posts don't get deleted.

I had to go afk a long time while playing ffxi due to a family emergency. I could say anything to the party so they assumed the worst and said some nasty things after kicking me. Do you honestly get how rude that is?

Sorry unless you guys know the full story on why ppl go afk for long periods of time, you shouldn't judge them. Also don't believe everything you see with auto follow. Not everyone is good at navigating games, and use auto follow to keep up with the party.

Sorry but its getting sickly annoying to see post after post thread after thread of people judging others.

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Originally Posted by Kilta_Firelotus

Sorry but its getting sickly annoying to see post after post thread after thread of people judging others.

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Welcome to playing an FF MMO, if not the internet itself. :)

"Being AFK while gaining SPis the real problem here regardless of how they do it, whether it be botting, AFK leeching in a party with other players or multiboxing. Gaining SP while AFK has always been looked down upon in any MMO, why should some players get an advantage over others because of a flawed game mechanic."

Your really starting to get on my nerves. Or never truely played mmo to the fullest extact. It is because, people would need to go afk at times, and sometimes long durations. Like making dinner etc. Pretty much if they stop allowing people to get sp/exp while afk this forces them to have disband the party causing the leader to get a replacement (if there is one),, or he sticks with the group everyone out levels him, or the party must stop till they are back. We are not NEETS or robots and have things we need to do and needing to go afk. Like using the restroom or eatung dinner, or making dinner. So it isn't a flawed machanic.

And only reason it was looked down on is people assumed the worst.

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Originally Posted by Shai

Welcome to playing an FF MMO, if not the internet itself. :)

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It still doesn't make it right and is more of an issue then "afk leeching"

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Originally Posted by PandaTaru

something like that? lol

http://i461.photobucket.com/albums/q...1298656210.jpg

dual boxing to help yourself on the occasion like use 1 single char (dual boxed) to help yourself or your pt, yes I don't see any problem with that. However that, see screen, it's complete abuse. Why even bother playing if it's to get your chars p-leveled?

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Yeah I see that on my server too and they are very noticeable. When I'm out doing leves and see a solid white line on my mini-map followed by a line of players auto following one person passing by, it makes me shrug a little.

Being AFK while in a leveling party in FFXI was always looked down upon. If you had to AFK for a reasonably long time (15 min or more) you were usually asked to leave or find a replacement for yourself and the reason is because the exp system was balanced and everyone had to pull their own weight in a fully functional party. People are making it less of a deal in FFXIV because:

1. Everything is too easy so therefore people simply don't care what happens along as they still get their SP.

2. Since a person being AFK in a party doesn't hold the party back people just don't care.

It's not about whether you care or not, AFK leeching is abusing a flawed system similar to botting obviously both are going to happen. AFK leeching has a lesser impact in a party system than it did in FFXI, is that a justified reason to leech?

Leaving a party doesn't stop them from AFK leeching since they can just form a party by themselves. If you don't care about people abusing the system just don't post, flaming is only going to tarnish your own name and make you look bad.

Mini, just ignore Kitty.

Simple Solution: Kick an AFKer. Not in your party? Tough luck.

Sorry gonna have to agree with Mini here, I see this happen as well but nothing I can do about it. Glad I don't have to deal with this anymore lol.

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Originally Posted by Mini_M

I don't see why people are getting offended when I mentioned multiboxing, never did I once say multiboxing is wrong and if someone multiboxes its not my problem.

You see in a situation where people are AFK leeching you can always leave those people, kick them out, etc. Those people you have kicked out of your party obviously are going to need a secondary method to get more people to party with so they have to multibox.

Being AFK while gaining SP is the real problem here regardless of how they do it, whether it be botting, AFK leeching in a party with other players or multiboxing. Gaining SP while AFK has always been looked down upon in any MMO, why should some players get an advantage over others because of a flawed game mechanic.

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Currently people leech/powerlevel/whatever the same way as other MMOs. Let's have SE come up with another way of leveling to prevent this because their current way to stop the RMT didn't affect us at all.

Leechers will always find a way to leech but why do you care so much? Will they affect the economy drastically like the RMT?

You also enlightened yourself on the matter so I guess you just didn't notice.

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Being AFK while gaining SP is the real problem here regardless of how they do it, whether it be botting, AFK leeching in a party with other players or multiboxing.

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You know what I get from this? Translation: leechers will find an easy way regardless of the methods applied.

Of course unless the methods are severe enough to impact the majority of the playerbase(legit players).

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Originally Posted by Mini_M

Being AFK while in a leveling party in FFXI was always looked down upon. If you had to AFK for a reasonably long time (15 min or more) you were usually asked to leave or find a replacement for yourself and the reason is because the exp system was balanced and everyone had to pull their own weight in a fully functional party. People are making it less of a deal in FFXIV because:

1. Everything is too easy so therefore people simply don't care what happens along as they still get their SP.

2. Since a person being AFK in a party doesn't hold the party back people just don't care.

It's not about whether you care or not, AFK leeching is abusing a flawed system similar to botting obviously both are going to happen. AFK leeching has a lesser impact in a party system than it did in FFXI, is that a justified reason to leech?

Leaving a party doesn't stop them from AFK leeching since they can just form a party by themselves. If you don't care about people abusing the system just don't post, flaming is only going to tarnish your own name and make you look bad.

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You're just pushing your beliefs on others.

It is exactly about whether you care or not! That's all it is about. If SE cared, they'd change it - and presumably they will and at that time sit on your high horse and say, "Haha! I told you so!" Right now, though, people are just enjoying the game the way they want to and the way the game allows them to do so.

Exploitation means to take advantage of the situation or to use a system to the best of your ability. OF COURSE this is going to happen. Everyone wants to get ahead or make money the best way they can or know how. It's just the way the world works; it's the way the game works.

You can have an opinion that it's wrong to do this. You can kick AFK people from your party or Linkshell. You can blacklist people you see doing it. You can cry about it on a forum, but all you're doing is forcing your personal beliefs on others who don't have to feel the same way as you. You have all the control you need to cut these people out of your life.

Are you jealous that you have to work for your levels while others don't? I know people default to that accusation, but that is honestly what it sounds like when someone is going on and on about how "unfair" and "broken" a system is that they aren't using.

I hate botting, but mostly because I'm jealous and I admit it. I'm jealous that I can't go to bed and wake up to a new level of Carpentry. That is actually cheating in the TOS, though, so it's a line I wouldn't cross - but my inherent dislike for people doing it comes from the fact that I'm unwilling to do it and so I suffer while they prosper.

So what's the real problem with AFK Leveling?

...and before you get confused I'm not flaming you.

I just have a contrary opinion.
It's called having a discussion or a debate.

Mini your the one who is flaming others. I highly suggest you look up the term NEET. :) then get back to me.

Getting sp/exp afk isn't a flawed system. W/o it would be a flawed system. And I can safely say you have rose colored glasses when talking about ffxi. And also the only reason it was looked down on, was people assumed the worst or of others. Like then force dcing when their power gets cut out, or having a family emergency and suddenly going afk w/o a word. Do you honestly know how it feels to have to run to the hospital find out both your granparents just died, get back to a game you left running and find about 3 pages worth of insults? That isn't a great feeling. Trust me.

Also In ffxi is was never easy to get a replacement right away. And people still got peeved if you had to leave or go afk. Honestly the only flaw is peoples attitudes, not the afk leechers. Learn the full story, or don't complain. What other people do is none of yoir concern. It don't effect you. So please just get over yourself

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Originally Posted by Mini_M

Being AFK while in a leveling party in FFXI was always looked down upon. If you had to AFK for a reasonably long time (15 min or more) you were usually asked to leave or find a replacement for yourself and the reason is because the exp system was balanced and everyone had to pull their own weight in a fully functional party. People are making it less of a deal in FFXIV because:

1. Everything is too easy so therefore people simply don't care what happens along as they still get their SP.

2. Since a person being AFK in a party doesn't hold the party back people just don't care.

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None of this is true as anyone that's not a sucker will just kick them.

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It's not about whether you care or not, AFK leeching is abusing a flawed system similar to botting obviously both are going to happen. AFK leeching has a lesser impact in a party system than it did in FFXI, is that a justified reason to leech?

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It wont be abused since all you have to do is kick them which most will do.

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Leaving a party doesn't stop them from AFK leeching since they can just form a party by themselves. If you don't care about people abusing the system just don't post, flaming is only going to tarnish your own name and make you look bad.

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So basically you want SE to put a camera in every house?

edit: I am also not flaming you but having a discussion as I am against what you are for. This isn't about some bots or RMT. It's about you mad at people multiboxing or to refuse to just kick leechers from the party(again not flaming but this is what I get from your posts). Anything else is just asking for too much.

Oh lol so many angry peeple in da thread. Yeah Mini seems to think like he knows everything, but yeah nothing you can do about AFK leechers just let them be until SE decides to do sumthin about it.

pfft like anyone here reads the ToS anyways its the same corporate bullshit thats spewed from every mmo.

I'm not flaming you either. Just sick of people like you, treating people like me with disrespect over a VIDEO GAME.

Honestly those who take video games so seriously, as to insult others for difference in play style, going afk, going afk for a long time w/o a word, auto following, multiboxing even to the extremes with out knowing the full story, should be classified as a NEET.
As they care WAY to much about what other people do on a video game.

It is borderline crazy. When did games stop being about having fun? Why do people have to treat mmo like a boot camp or strict work place?

Like I saud know the full story before assuming the worst. Or your no better then the people you dislike.

no, keep SP gain simple.

our first SP gain system which requires you to do action and are completely random was a complete fail design, it was hated by everyone and for god's sake i never want to see that again.

just kick if u are having a member that leech your party, but in my case i have alot of friends that have children and sometimes they have to go afk to take care of them.. i'd hate seeing them to fell behind in terms of SP because u know they have another lifes they have to take care of.

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Originally Posted by Chardrizard

no, keep SP gain simple.

our first SP gain system which requires you to do action and are completely random was a complete fail design, it was hated by everyone and for god's sake i never want to see that again.

just kick if u are having a member that leech your party, but in my case i have alot of friends that have children and sometimes they have to go afk to take care of them.. i'd hate seeing them to fell behind in terms of SP because u know they have another lifes they have to take care of.

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Or even worst SE adds AFK leeching to the ToS and those that need to take care of a child(or something else important) for a bit gets banned for helping their kid too long.

Edit: I feel the OP is paying way too much attention to her fellow players.

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Originally Posted by Honz

Oh lol so many angry peeple in da thread. Yeah Mini seems to think like he knows everything, but yeah nothing you can do about AFK leechers just let them be until SE decides to do sumthin about it.

pfft like anyone here reads the ToS anyways its the same corporate bullshit thats spewed from every mmo.

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I'm not mad just surprised at the amount of people getting so offended, if you don't like it don't read it and don't reply its just that simple.

I haven't flamed anyone I haven't mentioned a single person's name in any of my posts, but people are obviously getting buttmad over a thread in a *cough* game. Please stop replying if you have nothing constructive to say, voice your opinions all you want about AFK leechers whether it be for or against but if you're only going to outright flame me a GM is probably already getting ready to delete your post.

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Originally Posted by Mini_M

I'm not mad just surprised at the amount of people getting so offended, if you don't like it don't read it and don't reply its just that simple.

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It's not that simple. This would be great if you were just venting. Unfortunately your first sentences says "To the Devs" and since I disagree with you and there's no "Dislike" button, I can only do MY part by vocalizing how I think you're being inconsiderate and nosy when it doesn't impact you or the overall game at all.

I've listed several ways you could control YOUR situation to minimize the discomfort this causes you. If the devs think everyone feels the way you do and opt to change this in the game mechanics that will inconvenience me and my family and I will be powerless to control it.

So to the Devs: AFK leveling is being exploited by players having and utilizing multiple dummy accounts. Start charging money and this will sort itself out. You'll either make more money, or people will have less accounts to link their leves with. There's no need to take away a system of play that applies to a select group of individuals who want to get multiple characters level using minimal effort as it pleases them.

Note: It does make some players cranky when they see it at Broken Water, though. Please be aware of that.

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Originally Posted by Mini_M

Random SP again would be out of the question since people would only cry and whine about it again.

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Originally Posted by Mini_M

People report botting all the time but not AFK leeching because they think its ok or probably do it themselves.

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Originally Posted by Mini_M

The only people whining and defending AFK leeching are just do it themselves, you can justified your actions anyway you like the community is only going to see you as a AFK leecher.

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Originally Posted by Mini_M

I haven't flamed anyone I haven't mentioned a single person's name in any of my posts, but people are obviously getting buttmad over a thread in a *cough* game.

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You have flamed us since we are these "people" you speak of. So i'm going to give it to you straight.

Stop being so damn nosy and minding others people business as it does not affect you unless you invite the no skilled idiot to a party(which then you can still kick them). You know what SE have for those that afk leech? it's called the "kick" button and it's a very amazing feature. As soon as an afk leech is spotted do not hesitate to use such godly powers against them.

edit: Once SE start charging for accounts a lot less people will exploit this. However their will be some and the fact still stands it doesn't affect you. The economy won't be overrun like the RMT which is a lot more important than someone AFK and a sucker allowing him/her/it to gain xp.

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Originally Posted by Akumu

Or even worst SE adds AFK leeching to the ToS and those that need to take care of a child(or something else important) for a bit gets banned for helping their kid too long.

Edit: I feel the OP is paying way too much attention to her fellow players.

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He/She doesn't talk about people going AFK during a party, He/she talks about AFK-leveing parties with everyone but 1 or 2 people in the party that are AFK/in auto-follow which the other one or two not AFK SP for everyone. See the screen I posted in my first post and you'll get what I mean.

And I'm a stay at home dad who enjoys playing with his wife so she AFK follows me all day long so we can stay the same level range and enjoy the game TOGETHER when she's home. Shame on us. I hope SE bans us for a hardcore gamer carrying his casual wife a little. The horror and outrage of it all.

The point I'm making is - Can gilsellers exploit this to have 1 guy level 8 accounts 24/7? Yeah, sure. Target ban RMT for RMT activities. There are legitimate players playing within the rules and confines of the Terms of Service playing in such a manner that they enjoy and helps them work together - and in the long run will pay more money to SE to continue to do it.

Everyone wins in this scenario except Mini M who has failed to tell me what exactly is the problem. How does it affect you? How does it unbalance the game? Who does it hurt? How is it unfair?

Mini_M's comment about "don't read my post even though I'm trying to change the game under your nose to one I'd prefer" is hypocritical. You don't like AFK levelers, then don't associate with them. That's all you have to do! And it's much easier than changing game parameters!

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Originally Posted by Shai

And I'm a stay at home dad who enjoys playing with his wife so she AFK follows me all day long so we can stay the same level range and enjoy the game TOGETHER when she's home. Shame on us. I hope SE bans us for a hardcore gamer carrying his casual wife a little. The horror and outrage of it all.

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Edit: whatever.


There are multiples jobs, so why don't you keep one just to rank up with her and enjoy the game with her and another you play just to play yourself?