[Pole] Do you want to see the summoner class reworked?

YES, without a doubt.

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Originally Posted by Trayes

Yes!

Please make it a PET CLASS... not a dot class..

Make a different class the dot class...

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My thoughts exactly

Yes

Arcanist is fine. Summoner should not be an arcanist. Summoner should be a summoner.

YES your post hit the nail on the head brother

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Originally Posted by Vashous

YES

When I saw SE was making a SMN job I was so thrilled because through all of the FFs I have always loved the job of the Summoner the most. The problem with FFXIV's summoner is we are nothing more than a lame pet class. The worst part of this is the focus of the summoner is DD through optimization of our DoTs and offers very little interaction with the actual pet itself.

I was really hoping that FFXIV was going to be inventive with this opportunity and not just conform to every other MMO's standard pet class. Unfortunately I was proven wrong.

Personally, I would love to see these summons re-envisioned more as short term companions whose initial summoning does decent burst dmg or has an effect, stays for a short duration, and is dismissed either in death or a timer. They should be our main damage source, not a bunch of DoTs with a pet basically acting as another DoT.

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Yes - SMN feels awkward and just doesnt really fit into the game.
Call me a fanboy, but it's because I've played all these Final fantasy's that I have a pretty good idea what a summoner is.
So I say again this is not it, they could make this job so much better then it currently is. So yeah, go for it!

As we can see, there are equal halfs of "love it" or "hate it".

But the "hate it" part... what about suggestions how to rework the class? Just tell us, come up with changes that can really fit into an MMORPG.

All of the FF-Summoners have been special and would never fit into the MMO-gameplay, so please, make some good and realizable suggestions.

Yes I think they should be re worked slightly the pets need to interact more with the summoner.

Trayes wrote this in a topic. I think square should of went with something like this IMO.

I am sure no one cares what I think but I do not enjoy the dot summoner with lame pets. If i had to change the playstyle away from dots into something else it would look like this.

Ruin: 80 potency. Grants you and your pet a buff depending on what pet you have out.
(Ifrit: Grants the user and pet stacking buff that increases damage by 5%, stacks 2 times)
(Titan: Lowers damage taken by the user and the pet by 5% for 4 seconds. Does not stack)
(Garuda: Grants the user and the pet 3% spell speed. Stacks 4 times. Garuda gains double from this effect)

Ruin II: 80 potency. This spell and the pet do a special bonus attack.
(Ifrit: Apply a 15 potency dot for 18 seconds.) Both the player and the pet apply this dot.
(Titan: Gain health equal to damage dealt.) Both the player and the pet heal based on the damage of thier attack.
(Garuda: Deal half damage to all enemies near the target) Both the player and the pet do the aoe damage.)

Now these are just ideas of how I would have made the summoner feel closer to their pets while adding some depth to the overall playstyle of the summoner. Also this is me only changing 2 skills. I am sure I could give a huge list of ideas.

Like an aether flow spell that grants a party buff based on the summon out.
Garuda would buff move speed and spell speed
Titan would give everyone a small stone skin
Ifrit would add "Enfire" to all melee attacks

Or it could just pass whatever the Ruin 1 buff is to the party for a short time. Like 5 seconds. Everyone gains 10% damage or everyone takes 5% less damage or everyone casts faster. Who knows. But I would have tried to make more of a connection.

YES!

It pales in comparison to every single summoner class in every Final Fantasy before this one.

The base lore for Egis is a fine concept but in no way should your pet which is supposed to resemble the primal look this atrocious.

Ifrit and Titan are both laughable as summons, Garuda is only ahead because of her DoT refresher which is another VERY sad fact.

Like a post I read before, even us average players can come up with better ideas regarding SMN in its current state and its weak and pointless "pet system", which in its turn is VERY sad considering a billion dollar company couldn't even come up with something better.

I'd start with removing at least 1 or 2 DoTs and put their effects on the DoTs we have left.
Adjust Ruin and Ruin II as mentioned above.
Add 2-3 new spells that have a direct link to our pet and forcing it to cast a certain spell depending on the pet in use.
Buff Enkindle!!
Adjust the A.I. and make pet spells usable while casting.
Don't make the majority of the pet spells copies of one-another.

EDIT: Now that I think of it, one thing that kept going through my head when playing SMN was ... Aion Spiritmaster.

Yes

FF has a job dedicated to dots and enfeebling magic. Its called Red Mage. Red Mage doesn't have a pet.


I really enjoy the dot management they thought up, and do enjoy current SMN.. but its not a summoner. Its a red mage in green. I would like to see Summoner re-worked so that most your abiliteis were tied to the current summon, so that your attacks and actions take the form of orders/pacts through the summon with fewer abilities and spells cast by the summoner itself, those being mostly focused on buffing/healing/interacting with the summon. Maybe some sort of mutual combo or building system. Summoner shoudl be mostly about summoning, not about some activity other than summoning.

Take the current class, buff it to compensate for loss of pet, and give us Red Mage. Re-make SMN to be focused on pets.

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Originally Posted by Nyel

As we can see, there are equal halfs of "love it" or "hate it".

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Look again. As more people vote numbers are getting further apart. There are so many things they could do to make the SMN class feel more like what we al know and love about the style of gameplay they bring. Smner's primary focus should be the summon. In it's current state the summon is nothing more than another DoT. You pay very little attention to it unless it is low on health. Soloing, the summon absorbs damage for you while you spam DoTs. You can't even reliably use the smn's skills because of the inability to use them while channeling a skill. To top things off the skills are not instantaneous and often need to be mashed just to get them to go off.

Aside from the fact that summoners do not feel like a "summoner" at all, there are numerous flawed mechanics at the moment.

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Originally Posted by Kasrai

Are we talking fireman pole or stripper pole here?

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I'm a little late to the party but was thinking the same thing LOL

I would've just added totem pole is all.... ;)

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FF has a job dedicated to dots and enfeebling magic. Its called Red Mage. Red Mage doesn't have a pet.

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Flat wrong. It's called Oracle, not Red Mage. Red Mage is a swordsman that utilizes both white and black magic. FFXI is the only place where Oracle's purpose got dumped onto Red Mage. Oracle in FF Tactics was all about the bad status effects.

Yes. Its not even a real summoners. Ya our dps is good from our dots but i dont want dots i want my pet to be the dmg not a minion that does slight stuff more than a minion.

This is such a useless thread.

*bump* Just updated votes

My opinion is summoner doesn't need a complete overhaul. More like a skill re-evaluation. I've seen plenty of pro SMN in the game all things considered. So That has led me to believe its a matter of the jobs difficulty. So bottom line is:

No

yes, i want tp be able to use my summons in a good way, i don't want to be a debuffer zombie mage :/ our spells are necro spells not summoner spells.. summoner make damages with summons not zombie debuffing dots

Yes

I gave it a go all the way to 50 and spent some time past that just to make sure. This is not a summoner class! I don't want a freaking WoW Warlock. I should be nuking stuff and commanding my summons to do interesting things.

No

Lets ignore the fact that this thread is useless and people want to push their idea of smn on SE rather than just looking at it as a class in a game and look at it logically. Its a waste of time and resources which i would much rather they use to develop another class personally.

no, but I would like a lot of issues fixed on it and some more synergy in spells. I been slowly being weiting a review on the class and what needs fixed but its taking longer then expected. Honestly, this class just needs minor tweaks and pet UI / control needs a severe update.

Yes, currently summoners are a DoT class with a weak pet that causes more problems then its worth.

I don't think summoner will get a complete re work but I hope square re examines the pets and our ruin skills.

When they announced SMN/ACN I was soo excited because I was a SMN in FFXI and I absolutely loved it, seeing this class in FFXIV disappoints me a little I mean most things so far look-wise like the races and stuff resemble the ones in FFXI I kind of expected the Summons to resemble the ones in FFXI as well. It's obviously not the same game and I like that you get a small version, but I really dislike the miniature models. They could have easily made miniature versions without making them look completely different and horrible.

Whoever wrote this I agree with:

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Which pet do you want, Red Sticks, Chicken Nuggets or Abomination Parrot? None, get out of here with that shit.

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I don't mean to sound ungrateful! Because I am very much grateful and will continue to play anyway, I just wish they could've made the SMN class more exciting like the ones in FFXI and all the other Final Fantasy's.

In game people are pretty happy with the class. Sure it would be nice to have the pet do more damage, have dots show up better in the battle log, and other further development of the class as the game moves forward.

Playing summon other than solo or in summoner burn groups in ffxi wasn't fun. People were lagged out by the big summoner pets (especially in dynamis) and generally when you played it in any group or raid you had to mainly just heal & occassionally buff. There were a few fights were summoners were used the way ffxi meant them to be used, but by and large they were a gimp healer.

If any group buffs are given to a 'pet' class, give them to scholar. Don't turn us into ffxi summoners.


The current summoner is fun to play; very versitile for solo, group or raid play; and uniquely different as every version of summon in FF has been.
http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Summoner

I'm looking forward to additional egii to summon and to seeing their primal abilities.

Yes, I do want to see it reworked. SMN in its current form is great. It has a unique playstyle and it is fun, HOWEVER it is not a summoner. For those who are asking "How could you make a FF summoner that's not OP?" we could learn a little from XI (Read: Not copy/paste from XI). The summoner just stood there and used its pets abilities. It feels like you are summoning powerful allies because they are essentially as powerful as a player.Not OP because the actual character does nothing. One of the changes I'd ask for (from FFXI summoner) is that player's health needs to be linked to sumon's health--cheating death by re-summoning is not balanced.

Having 4 abilities per pet is just laughable for an FF summoner, even if this isn't the final level cap.

That said, I would change my answer to NO, if after level 50 we were able to summon REAL primals (then it would make sense that we only get egis at first) and those real primals would either (1) come, use a powerful attack, and leave or (2) nerf and sync health/mana with the player and completely change out the abilities.

TL;DR I think the class is lame at the moment, but there is still room for improvement without redoing the class by adding high-level skills.

Summoner right now just like false advertising, don't believe me ?

Now read this word [Summoner]

Now answer this question
If you met a [Swordsman] and he want to kill you, what he will do to you ?
a. His hand will start to glaw and then suddenly a fireball appears and struck your body
b. He began to mumbling some incantation and all of sudden your body feel sick and weak from a curse
c. He will summon a minion that will chase you and rip you apart
d. He will attack you with his sword and will try to maim and decapitate your head if he was merciful
Needless to say the answer will be D

If you met a [Summoner] and he want to kill you, what he will do to you ?
a. His hand will start to glaw and then suddenly a fireball appears and struck your body
b. He began to mumbling some incantation and all of sudden your body feel sick and weak from a curse
c. He will summon a minion that will chase you and rip you apart
d. He will attack you with his sword and will try to maim and decapitate your head if he was merciful
Needless to say the answer will be B ..... Wait is this even right ?

So my answer for this poll is [YES],

I dont want SE to get away with that, i don't want them to think that the summoner was OK as it is, just imagine if there was a game with let say Archer and then they give you a class with plenty skill for daggers wtih couple of skill that utilize bow, i bet you will feel cheated

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Originally Posted by Azunia

My opinion is summoner doesn't need a complete overhaul. More like a skill re-evaluation. I've seen plenty of pro SMN in the game all things considered. So That has led me to believe its a matter of the jobs difficulty. So bottom line is:

No

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As I said, this has nothing to do with how viable the class is. At the moment, we as summoners can dish out more sustained DPS that pretty much any other job as long as we know what we are doing. This job is definitely one of the less difficult to maximize. Keeping your DoTs timed properly is really our only "difficult" obstacle in boss dungeon battles. I haven't played through a whole lot of melee classes yet, but I can imagine having to keep up your combos all while dodging a heck of a lot more AOE dmg is much more difficult.

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Originally Posted by -Lilia-

[FONT="Verdana"].

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Well, at least in XIV SMN is useful, in XI, especially later years, SMN was a useless niche job with very little place in any endgame content. TBH I like that the job is useful now, But i also hate that its... yeah, Essentially a Modernized MMO Pet job, heavy focus on the Master, pet being little more than additional fireworks. I do like Titan though, he does his job really well when i solo play, I think Ifrit and Garuda lack real DD capabilities but I assume thats because the Summoner themselves have a lot of Damage capabilities.

If anything, I'd like if they adjusted Ruin/Ruin II to be maybe potency of 100/120 or so... Its pretty sad our only non-DoT nuke is so hideously weak :|

Oh don't get me wrong I like the SMN job I just don't like the look of the Egi's. SMN was my number 1 class to be and I was soo excited when they announced they were bringing it to FFXIV but now that I've seen the Egi's it kind of puts me off, they're not what I had in mind, maybe I'm just a bit of a 'poser' when it comes to stuff like this but I remember all the hard work I made into getting each Avatar/Egi in FFXI and it was worth it take a look:

http://imageshack.us/a/img202/6952/3bcd.png http://imageshack.us/a/img853/8444/i9ni.png
http://imageshack.us/a/img849/7628/5d74.png http://imageshack.us/a/img801/7827/anow.png
http://imageshack.us/a/img31/2353/u975.png


They're soo beautiful and unique! But in FFXIV I don't feel that.
Once again I don't mean to sound unappreciative because I am, I'm sorry if I offend anyone by my opinion!

PS: I forgot to put my answer as yes! XD

No/Yes.

The only thing I want reworked are the Egi skills. Garuda is basically Emerald Carbuncle with a different skin. They have the same exact skills. Titan has the same skills as Topaz Carbuncle. I think they should have been changed around more. And the cd of Enkindle, 5 minute cd for such a weak skill isn't worth the animation I use to tell summon to use their ultimate. If they are going to keep it at 5 minute, buff the damage or make the skill so graphically intense that everyone around you lags.

Other than that, they are fine. I don't mind the DoTs. I don't know how you people say summons do bad damage. My Garuda hits 200 crits with her 3 sec cd spam skill (outside of crits it is like 120-140).

I would personally like to see other summons. Like Shiva...Shiva is one of the most famous summons, I was surprised when she wasn't even mentioned at all. >.> Gimme Shiva! I must use DIamond Dust Q-Q

At least having the egi's -look- like summons would be something. My question is... there's a necromancer class in the series. So if they wanted DoT's and pets... why didn't they just make it NEC? So I guess I'm sort of on the fence on this one... I like DoT pet classes (loved Affliction Warlock in WoW before it became a one buttom spamfest -.-) but it just doesn't feel 'summoner' to me with the current pet styles and the fact that it's only 3 of them to boot. Yes I do understand they need to balance the classes and I'm not suggesting they make it FFXI's SMN... but I dunno it needs something.

Hi,

I vote Yes, i don't really like new summoner, summons are too much smaller than previous version (FFXI) and very ugly .

In spite of my aversion for the esthetics of the EGI of FFXIV, I made the decision to up an invoker, both carbuncles are nice.
But the EGI of Primordials are far below what it was on FFXI about aesthetically .
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7QAZF...ature=youtu.be

Gameplay : The summons ask for less management, Summoner don't need to check mana pool anymore, summons don't consume mana in FFXIV .
In FFXI, the DAMAGE/HEAL of the invoker depended many of the called summon, the invoker have few spells, the ability he can use depend to summon called .
I think SE reduce the impact of summons on gameplay Summoner .
Summoner in FFXIV look like the Warlock in WoW than Summoner in FFXI .

Link of my post on French Forum about Summoner :
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...r-l-Invocateur

yes though i havent really played summoner that much since i went more for scholar.

Yes -- but let me explain my yes.

I would like a little bit more emphasis placed on the pets. Right now, they are secondary accessories... and they DO a nice chunk of damage, but not enough to warrant the title of 'summoner'. Besides that, I am completely happy with the class and how DoTs work. I understand we don't have as much 'burst', but in a balanced 8-man party, this REALLY doesn't matter. Fester and Enkindle (+ other pet buffs) are enough for DPS checks like Titan's Heart. If tanks are good about keeping adds together, spreading DoTs to those are a great way to 'contribute'. If not, you need to plan when it would be a good time to do it... and this takes both experience and mindfulness. (Example: plumes in Garuda -- plan your DoT timers and get ready to spread as soon as they spawn.)

As we receive more summoner-specific abilities down the road (as level cap raises), I hope all of those abilities affect our PET in some way. The survivability of our pet is 'ok' right now... reduced damage from AoEs, etc, but some things will destroy the pet no matter what. (Example: burning circle on the ground in Hydra. If you move your pet the second you see the circle underneath the pet, it won't be enough time... the Egi will get the burning effect and die every single time.) Swiftcast makes this 'okay' as long as we remember to cast it right away and haven't used it raising someone who dies. (No one should die, in an ideal world, but... well, it happens.)

tldr; I just want more emphasis on the pets. That's all. I'm fine with how the class functions as of right now... but as more abilities are added in the future... please please please.

No.

Simply put, the SMN class is not deficient in any way. Their damage is more than fine, despite being casters, they're penalized less on mobility fights than BLMs due to a) a fair number of instant casts and b) persistent damage through DoTs.

Anything related to the distribution of damage/control between caster and pet is purely style and opinion. Are they closer to a WoW Warlock or Aion Spiritmaster or [insert game/DoT-Pet class] than XI's summoner? Yes. Is that an issue? Mechanically? No. Functinoally? No. Does it harm their relative performance? No.

Do I personally believe more emphasis could be shifted to the pet? Sure. Why not? Do I think that my opinion means the entire class needs a rework? No. I'm not that selfish.

Yes.

I wish the class was more pet focused, and pet did alot more damage. I wish the egi can evolve to look like the ffxi summons.

I played ffxi summoner, ffxiv summoner, and wow warlock. The current ffxiv summoner is a wow warlock. You cast dots, your pet does stuff, and you do decent damage.

What I wanted from the ffxiv summoner was more in line with a few things I've read: either summon focus where your spell casts are equatable to a pet coming down to do damage (like all prior ff games), or your abilities change based on the pet you have out like in ffxi.

I may be in the minority on this, or at least the vocal portion, but the summoner class does not function like a final fantasy summoner. I get it, you drew from WoW. WoW was a great game. But, I am not playing summoner in ffxiv to play a wow lock.

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Originally Posted by Pwnznewbz

I played ffxi summoner, ffxiv summoner, and wow warlock. The current ffxiv summoner is a wow warlock. You cast dots, your pet does stuff, and you do decent damage.

What I wanted from the ffxiv summoner was more in line with a few things I've read: either summon focus where your spell casts are equatable to a pet coming down to do damage (like all prior ff games), or your abilities change based on the pet you have out like in ffxi.

I may be in the minority on this, or at least the vocal portion, but the summoner class does not function like a final fantasy summoner. I get it, you drew from WoW. WoW was a great game. But, I am not playing summoner in ffxiv to play a wow lock.

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I vote yes because this person said everything that needed to be said.

*just updated votes*

what if I like the core gameplay but I don't give a rat's ass about "if you think that the summoner class is a good representation of it's title"

a little bit of a loaded question fallacy don't you think? in this case, through voting?

I suggest keeping the 'no' option as simple as "no if you are happy with the current gameplay of the Summoner class and would not like to see it reworked" just like it's ''yes'' counterpart.

because you're hinting an argument in defense of the ''yes'' option.

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Originally Posted by Engineer

Yes.

I wish the class was more pet focused, and pet did alot more damage. I wish the egi can evolve to look like the ffxi summons.

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out of the MMO rpgs I've played, this game (the summoner class to be exact) has probably the strongest pets I've seen (in a raiding scenario), the pet does about 30% of your damage, even in WoW a warlock's pet would be lucky to reach 10% of the warlock's damage, and I hear ffxi pets are terrible but only looks huge.